[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by gordoUSA

Now don't be painting me as a flaming liberal which I am not, no one is going to touch the commie bastards, we have pretty much given up too much already and it isn't going to stop with the "Culture of Corruption" as it is in Washington, and both parties can take the blame.
I was wondering in all honesty, where does the money go if it doesn't come back to the shareholders? And with the bogus accounting methods that seem to be surfacing these days, how can anyone be sure what you are really investing in, and how stable are some of these companies. Especially if the money is sitting in some bank in a bananna dictators country. But the tax codes today are so cumbersome and complicated, you really do get what you pay for in a talented and creative CPA. One reason there will never be a "flat tax" or "comsumption tax" it would put all the H&R Block guys ,accountants, CPAs and god forbid tax attorneys out of business! LOL>>>

Why do you suppose I'm questioning all the "EXPERIENCE" we all seem to think is so important? It's taken decades for this country to get into the fix it's in now. And, they got all their experience in the process of getting us all here. Now? Now, they're going to fix it all? Now???

Spread your arms, flap your wings, and fly over here so I can hit you and knock some sense into you... You have as much chance of doing this as they have of fixing the problems THEY have created over the past 30 and 40 years.

[VitoCorleone99]

The American subsidiary "pays" the foreign subsidiary for goods or services. The foreign subsidiary pays taxes on the profit. Then the foreign subsidiary "pays" the American shareholders as a dividend, avoiding American income tax to the corporation.

That's the thumbnail version, based on my rudimentary understanding. There are requirements concerning how much business has to be from exports and all that, since the loophole was created specifically to help exports. I'm not a corporate lawyer nor an expert on international trade, so I won't pretend to know the countless regulations and guidelines involved. In general terms though, this is the idea.

As an example, maybe you build widgets for export. You have factories to produce the materials for your widgets and you have other factories to assemble them. As a business decision, you decide to shut down your American materials factories and instead produce the materials in Ireland, where taxes are nice and low. You set up an Irish production company, based in America. You "buy" these materials from your Irish company. Then you assemble the widgets in America. Even though most of the work is being done in Ireland (shipping jobs overseas), the 'value' is added in America. The Irish company pays dividends (at a reduced tax rate) to its shareholders, who also happen to be the shareholders of the original American company. Now the only profit earned by the American exporter is the net profit from the exported final product.

If any of the elements in my example are a little off, you'll have to forgive me. Like I said, I'm not an international trade expert. The upshot is that raising the dividend tax to ordinary income would lessen the incentive for the American company to exist at all. At that point, the company would be better off just completing the whole process in Ireland and basing itself there. Ditto for closing the loophole.

The American investors (with their preferential tax treatment) are the reason that these companies stay in America. Removing incentives (ending tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas) is just one more step toward the American investor not being worth the trouble. The Chi-coms, keeping their people in poverty, manipulating their currency, and investing however they please, would be a viable alternative.

[gordoUSA]

Your explanation is the logical way things "should" work, but now with so many trade agreements between all the different countries, and trading partners I am wondering how all this money is being handled. I was more interested if the shareholders, were actually receiving their "proper" dividend. And if standardized international accounting practices were being followed, which would result in a "fair" value of the stock.
There seems to be so many loopholes, from country to country, trade agreement to trade agreemnt, currency valuation to currency valuation, I could see the potential for a lot of manipulation.

[BlooMoose]

Originally Posted by gordoUSA

Your explanation is the logical way things "should" work, but now with so many trade agreements between all the different countries, and trading partners I am wondering how all this money is being handled. I was more interested if the shareholders, were actually receiving their "proper" dividend. And if standardized international accounting practices were being followed, which would result in a "fair" value of the stock.
There seems to be so many loopholes, from country to country, trade agreement to trade agreemnt, currency valuation to currency valuation, I could see the potential for a lot of manipulation.

Somebody will always be scratching somebody else's back...unfortunately. The loudest talkers always have their fingers in the pot...be it Dem or Rep. Some things, we will never fix without all hell breaking loose. Maybe that is what it will take. I am still Republican...and I don't agree with everything...but I have to vote for the candidate whose "vision" is most aligned with mine...Obama is not my choice. I was listening to the news on XM this morning (could have been a re-air'd program - I don't know. I wish I had time to stay on it closer but I have 4 kids and I just can't)...him going back with Bill O'Reilly, I think...but the tax issue...Obama said "it's the neighborly thing to do" (in reference to the "wealthier" paying more taxes because they can afford to...and the waitress earning minimum wage and tips only paying less...). That, I do agree with...but I don't think THAT is what is going to make any difference in anything!

[VitoCorleone99]

The neighborly thing to do is to help your neighbor, not to have Barack Obama take your money and help whomever he sees fit. Another Christian principle that we allow to be distorted.

Serious question: Is the tax code supposed to raise the necessary revenue to fund the government or allow the government to reward certain behaviors while punishing others?

[gordoUSA]

The logical answer again would be to raise enough money to fund the government.

But, these days it appears the tax revenues are used as a public feeding trough for the "favored businesses", "causes," "whims," and "campaign contributors" of the political party in power.

[trux]

Originally Posted by VitoCorleone99

The neighborly thing to do is to help your neighbor

Vito, just curious, do you know what your neighbor's last names are? Have you ever met your neighbors?

[VitoCorleone99]

Originally Posted by trux

Vito, just curious, do you know what your neighbor's last names are? Have you ever met your neighbors?

Yes (a few of them), and yes (all of them). Although I can't imagine why you would be curious about my neighborhood, you can rest assured that none of them are named Obama, nor do any of them work in Washington.

If you're driving at some kind of point, you might as well just get straight to it. I can save you the trouble if you're wondering if I do my part. Yes, I do.

[GTR SILVER]

bump

[Sparks280zt]

You guys arent even mentioning the real problem.....


$0.52 on $1.00 goes to the government in some form or fashion....

The Income Tax is not even legal, there is NO law requiring it. The 16th ammendment was not ratified by enough states and this fact has even been cited in a Federal Tax evasion court case in 2003.
Also there are several Supreme Court cases stating the 16th ammendment gave congress no new taxing power and even defined income.

And not one cent from the income tax goes to the interest of the people, it goes to pay down the interest on the money loaned to the government by the Federal Reserve (The Federal Reserve is a private banking institue, its about as Federal as Federal Express)

Do your own research.

I suggest youtubing "Freedom to Facism"