Questioning is NOT the same as rejecting, just as Spirituality is NOT the same as Religion.

 

Hobo…

Rebeldarlin is right in that there are so many interpretations that can be argued both ways by looking at every dot and T crossed in the bible which was written 2000+ years ago, in another language, and in a time where stories were written allegorically by telling a story to illustrate a point. I personally do not look to every phrase in the bible. There are those that do...that’s fine for them as I stick to what I believe in and try not to judge what's best for them to believe in.


Now for those pragmatists in the crowd….going back to the point that all world views can be boiled down to the three most basic beliefs:

(1) If you deny eastern belief and find out it’s true…what happens? Actually I’m not really sure (can anybody of those beliefs chime in here?) I believe one of them (reincarnation) would state that you make the round trip back thru life a peg or two lower. On a side note: that makes me wonder….what does a snail have to do to move up in life? Leave a straighter snail trail?

(2) If you reject atheism and it’s true?…Doesn’t matter one whit cause your dead and just dust either way.

(3) If you reject God and it’s true?...You risk losing eternity with Him.

Now on the most basic and pragmatic level…if you were a betting man and wanted to best cover your bets…what one should you choose to believe in? (I will say that this is the absolute worst reason for basing a belief on…but it IS a reason for those who are at an utter dead end in their search for meaning).

Hobo…you mentioned after death experiences earlier…there is another great book called “90 Minutes in Heaven” (by Don Piper)). It describes the 90 minutes a preacher spent dead (in fact covered with a blue tarp by paramedics) and came back to life. What really hit me was his experience was nearly identical to the experience of an old girlfriend of mine’s grand mother had back in the mid 60’s. She was declared dead in a hospital (of cancer) for 9 minutes and came back. When I read the book I was floored by the similarities both people had. That is the closest thing to “proof” that I’ve seen.

 

I was referring to Hobo being a little more open-minded about how the spirit is/was/might be working on him. Instead of looking for key words to key off on, look at the posting as a whole.

:roll:

Questioning God is not the same as denying him. Everyone questions God at one time or another. That's part of being of mortal mind and body and not being able to understand that God has a plan for everyone and everything, even when you are at your lowest and hurting worse than you've ever hurt before.

Reread your scriptures. Many prophets questioned God. Job questioned God and he was put through the ringer. Even Christ questioned God when He asked if the cup could be passed from him.

But throughout all the questioning, no one denied Him. As a matter of fact, their questioning of Him went a long way to prove their belief in Him. In other words, why question something you don't believe in?

What do you think accepting and then denying Christ even is? I would post scriptures, but it looks like Hobo has already covered that in much the same way I would have. Imagine that?

Onward...

Ah yes, the words of man. We know how that will turn out in the end, right. :roll:

I don't dispute that, but....

If you want to believe that rejecting Christ after accepting him is a forgivable sin, that's not just free will...it's abject stupidity. You accept Christ BECAUSE of the Holy Spirit and nothing else....not by listening to someone tell you, not by reading a book, not by any other way than getting on your knees and receiving the promptings and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Going back to your scripture:

And rejecting Christ after having accepted Him, is indeed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It's pretty cut and dry, but believe what you want.

I'm done here. I enjoyed Slim's postings...he was one of the more open-minded and level-headed people I have met on a spiritual discussion messageboard. But I'm not going to get wrapped up in a theological discussion when the going theme is "you have your beliefs, I have the truth" because then both sides end up doing it and both sides lose.

But be that as it may, we're not discussing the rapture here...the discussion centers around one of the key tenets of Christianity as a whole, not various "religions". Whether you choose to believe that or not, is your choice.

So, Slim, wherever you are, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Hobo, I sincerely hope you find that which you seek.

 

geomon said:

I agree that many interpretations abound around NEARLY every part of the Bible and its teachings. In fact, I laugh at those who find a way to justify their "sins" by cherry picking the scriptures. I was not actually debating the info in the links she provided. She originally mentioned Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and I wasn't sure exactly what was meant by that, so I googled Unforgivable Sin. In the first few articles I read, I found that my definition was pretty much what was agreed upon. I'm sure if I'd checked out a few of the BLOG sites, I may have found some cherry picking and distortions. The link she provided offered no different definition than the one I did.

I ALSO agree that all scripture is suspect, precisely for the reasons you mentioned.... allegory, parable, stories told thru generations.... not to mention... written by MAN. So, it is entirely possible that there IS NO unforgivable sin. But, if you look at the overall theology, there is a God, an offer of salvation, and an inducement to accept it. There also seems to be some form of punishment for those who deny it. Which brings us back to the question of "free will." :wink:

My question would be what does one have to have done to end up as a SNAIL?? :lol:

Hugh Heffner might have other opinions! :wink: But.... I agree that, what does it hurt one to believe and live a Christian life even if they don't win a prize? But, this goes back to how it might all be psychosomatic.

Yes, that's true.... and is a VERY popular argument in favor of Religion or Spirituality. Of course, it also hinges on a belief that there IS an eternity after death.

Why is it that one MUST believe in any of the 3? Because someone tells us that these are the ONLY 3 choices? Who said so? The Bible? I refer you to paragraph one. :wink:

Hobo…you mentioned after death experiences earlier…there is another great book called “90 Minutes in Heaven” (by Don Piper)). It describes the 90 minutes a preacher spent dead (in fact covered with a blue tarp by paramedics) and came back to life. What really hit me was his experience was nearly identical to the experience of an old girlfriend of mine’s grand mother had back in the mid 60’s. She was declared dead in a hospital (of cancer) for 9 minutes and came back. When I read the book I was floored by the similarities both people had. That is the closest thing to “proof” that I’ve seen.

I'm gonna have to get a bigger library room!! :lol:

Not much time for me right now to go into depth on this, but why WOULDN'T people who've had a SIMILAR upbringing, with similar stories about what heaven is, and similar expectations OF it.... have similar "dreams" or "visions" or "recollections" presented to them by their similarly programmed brains?

If you take six blind people to the beach, not ONE of them will walk out into the surf and drown.... because they ALL have a pretty good "concept" of what an ocean is.

 

Hobo...I did not put the particulars of what was described but the description (and that of the book) was not something we all get out of fairy tales or bible class as kids. I will actually post a portion of what her (great)grandmother told her on many occasions growing up.
Her story:
Now there were a number of things that were virtually identical between her experience and the book...For example: no shadows, colors that cannot be described on earth, all of nature praising God.

I, for one, prefer this to coming back as a snail...tho...if I had go thru as Hugh Hefner...wellllll maybe one pass thru as a snail wouldn't hurt :P

 

You know.... I really hate it when I am being cross-examined by the Defense attorney......especially, when it is MYSELF! :lol: Under oath, I must answer my own questions, and give testimony detrimental to my position! :shock: Too bad Twilight is "done" here.... he might ENJOY this! :lol: :lol:

Tonight, I spoke with a fellow driver from my company who has some personal problems ON TOP of the situation we face employment wise. this man was, at one time, very religious and something happened to make him question HIS faith.

I made two simple suggestions. The first was that he should return.... if only for a visit..... to his or another CHURCH to see if there was some message there for him, or at least.... some comfort.

The second was that he should employ a little exercise that I OFTEN do when faced with problems, insurmountable doubt or questions, or any other crisis in my life. I like to think of it as "Musical Bible."

The part of me that is not constantly advocating for "full disclosure" concerning the TRUTH about God and "free will," believes that God.... or SOME higher power works in mysterious ways! I have told some of you before that, although I could struggle for a week to write a decent poem about LOVE, or Children or anything ELSE material,...... I can write a religious poem from start to finish without a scratchout or time to even drink a beer! :lol: What power gives me those words? Anyway.... this is not about poetry..... that was just an example of mysterious works! :lol:

Fact is.... when deeply troubled, I pick up my Bible, blow the dust off of it, and with total abandon, just part the pages and open it! I don't go LOOKING for a particular book or passage. Heck.... I wouldn't even know where to EXPECT them to be! :wink:

I just let it "part" as if the wind blew it open... and then go to the FIRST "chapter" I see on the left page. I would have to admit that, at LEAST 9 times out of 10.... there is SOMETHING in that chapter that I NEED to read! Somehow.... it always seems relevant to my situation. And, sometimes it is downright "convicting."

Since I had suggested this exercise to my friend.... I felt it only fitting that I should once again see what was there for ME.

I can't HELP it if I found a word actually MISSPELLED in the KJV!! I think this is the first time. I realize there are differences over 2000 years of writing, but there really IS one! :shock: I think it is the first one I've come across.... and of course, it is ONLY the fault of the printer.... not the author! (but I found it amusing!) :lol: But..... that is not the point! :roll:

Here is what is said in the 15th Psalm:

During the conversation in which I was trying to give comfort and advice to my friend, and although I made the recommendations SOLEY based on my knowledge of his previous faith, he said to me that he believed that, "at one time, you must have been Saved." :shock: :lol:

I won't bore you with the conversation that followed..... but, for those of you who think I debate and argue from a position OUTSIDE the understanding of GOD.... or that I have no right to even STRIVE for "divine thought," I leave you with his response to my suggestions.

"Thank you.... I think I will do that."

I hope you all sleep well tonight. I know "I" will. What "I" believe is of little consequence. That I "may" have brought some peace and harmony to another's life, is what keeps ME from coming back as a snail! :wink:

Hobo

 

I KNEW you were a Democrat cause if you were a Republican you woulda gone to the first chapter on the RIGHT :lol:

 

deleted

 

ZING....

Good one geomon... :lol:


...........................geo.................... ..hobo

 

Roadhog:

Why do "I" always have to be the guy who gets killed in the first act?? I wanna be a STAR.... like GEO!!! :lol:

Geomon:

I TRIED going to the RIGHT first..... but, it just never made any sense! So, to understand what was on the RIGHT, I had to keep reading what came BEFORE it. Pretty soon..... I just realized that it made more SENSE to start with the TRUTH! :lol:

And..... the TRUTH is always on the LEFT!! :wink: