What's next? A "spoof" about the 9/11 victims?

Try the recent archives. I realize that the American Lemming's memory is not very good, but sheesh!!!

And most of the stories are about AMERICANS smuggling drugs and illegals across the border. That moron who left all those illegals in the back of that reefer to suffer and die was an American.. I guess you need to whip up another "spoof" on how they deserved this fate..


Apples and Oranges, the two topics are not the same.. but it sounds really scary.. B-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O!!!!!

Why are you?

And it is the right of people not breaking the law to work here when invited. And of course they have been invited.

 

Your right. It is their right to work here, since they have been "invited". However you did throw in that one codicil. They have that right, as long as they are not breakin the law. So....each and every one of those drivers is going to be able to speak, read, and understand English. After all..that is the law. Each of those trucks will be mechanicly sound, after all, it is the law. Also..each of those drivers will return to their home country. :roll: :roll:

Fozzy...what is it you do anyway? Are you a Truckdriver? Or are you a manager of some type? Or..are you going to tell me to reasearch that answer as well?

 

First, I object to you calling them "goons." They are highly educated and trained U.S. Border Patrol Agents who deserve the same respect due our military (including your son!) God forbid HE should find himself in a situation where HIS interpretation of the "rules of engagement" would warrant HIM being called a "goon!" (like those Marines in Haditha or Abu Ghraib)

Now, being highly trained, and armed with THEIR rules of engagement (which I doubt YOU are privy to,) they "judged" that this vehicle which was fleeing from them in a border zone, was doing so for a sinister reason! Unless you know for a fact that they had searched his body, they would have NO way of knowing whether he was armed or not. IF, as you say, he had "raised his arms," that is a sign of surrender. That act is NEGATED the moment he started to RUN!!! (It's very hard, BTW, to RUN with your arms up!) And ALL THE EVIDENCE shows that he was NOT shot "in the back" as you LIE, he was shot in the buttocks, as he turned back towards them (possibly to fire at them.) If they'd shot him in the back.... he'd be DEAD!!


Under the Rules of Engagement for our Border Patrol, and under the circumstances, they had EVERY right to "suspect" that he was smuggling drugs or other (sometimes human) contraband. I'm sure they ordered (or indicated in some way to) him to STOP!! That is their RIGHT, as it is for ANY cop on any street in America! The fact that he FLED, immediately constituted a violation of American LAW, and "escalated" the rules of engagement!

This is obvious, even to YOU! :roll: But, more importantly, the point of the prosecution was that, he could NOT claim to be a "poor Mexican VICTIM " who had no other source of making a living! And it shows that SOME CDL holders in Mexico, would rather turn to illegal actions like SMUGGLING. Probably, because it PAYS better! And THIS should be of concern to all Americans who care about this issue of Mexican Truckers crossing the border.

Even someone with YOUR limited life experiences and knowledge, Fozzy, can recognize a "Dog and Pony Show" when Bush offers us one!! He and Cheney are the "Seigfield and Roy" of political entertainment! Think outside the box for a moment. Think about the reality of what comes AFTER the "show."

He SAID it was a form of his IMAGINATION. He didn't say he believed it to be fact! And, if you could COMPREHEND what he was saying, it was NOT that the Mexican Truckers were our ENEMIES, but that this "breach" of Border Security only makes it easier for Al Quaida (or the terrorists du jour) to smuggle dirty bombs or other WMD's into our country! Our ports are leaking like a sieve! And even STILL, as a result of recent developments in the NAFTA program, MANY ships sailing under foreign flags have indicated their intention to bypass American ports for those in Mexico or Central America with the intention of using these new Mexican trucking companies to ship goods (or WMD's) into America to avoid both the cost AND the scrutiny of American Ports and Longshoremen wages! Bush's policies have opened this "back door" to those who truly DO intend us harm!

And YOUR responses are NOT??? I think a better word than "consent" would be "complaceny," but there IS some evidence to support the word consent! As for the drug market? You have a point! I believe we should divert ALL funding from the War on Drugs to PAYING for this ill-advised war on Iraq! Of course, opening our borders to them would mean "decriminalizing" them, and THEN I could be free to express myself freely on MY OWN HOMETIME, as it would no longer be an issue once I went to work, as long as I wasn't CURRENTLY under any "influence!"

Fozzy, I agree that there ARE, and always HAVE been "injustices" perpetrated by those in our Police forces, Border Patrols, Military and other Law Enforcement Agencies (read: Alberto Gonzales,) and we as a civilization of LAWS should NOT ignore them. But, 10-12 years in the Pokey for shooting a scumbag drug dealer from Mexico in the BUTT, is JUST a bit harsh!!

I thank you for your TIME to read this, and for allowing me to say my piece! As you know, we are not so far apart on MANY issues. But, I have to speak my mind.

Hobo

 

First learn some HTML.. then post. The thug guards were covered and like this thread, they were portrayed as the victims, which they weren't. If you want to remain ignorant (one of of the ambitions of yours it seems) then so be it. I do not care! When there are cretins that come on and pretend that the Mexicans will or CAN do this job any different or any more dangerous that the people here that are already doing so in STAGGERINGLY larger ratio's then it is just simple bigotry and race is the only excuse that some of you can fall back on. You points have no merit.. zero.

 

You're so full of sh*t you need to wear a plunger as a hat! These two GOONS where tried and CONVICTED on the testimony of OTHER AGENTS! The funny thing that you mention my son, he was recently on a detail to present one of the MURDERING RAPISTS from Iraq from his own unit to the trial in which they were tried by their peers and sentenced. I also love how some of you dummies now can move the buttocks to another part of the body that the BACK. The bullet passed through this UNARMED person's body and lodged in his testicles. still sound funny to you? It doesn't to me and didnt to the jury and the other HONORABLE border guards who came forward and testified AGAINST these GOONS.

 

First, I'll assume that the previous post was not intended for ME. You really SHOULD learn some forum etiquette of your OWN, and IDENTIFY who you are responding to.

Now..... Fozzy said:

Ha Ha! That's funny..... but NOT in the spirit of the conversation I thought we were having!

Obviously, you're not aware of such things as Political Pressure, and coerced testimony. When the government is out to get you, they have "ways" of making people say what they want to protect their OWN jobs.

So, he's not REALLY an "airborne ranger?" Sounds like he's just an M.P. to me! It is the Military Police who escort prisoners to trial. I wonder how his "unit" will feel about him when and IF he ever gets to Iraq? Can you spell F-R-A-G??

Ummm.... YEAH!!! The testicles are MUCH closer to the BUTTOCKS area than they are to the BACK!! :roll: To pass through the BACK and lodge in the testicles would require that the GOONS were about 20 feet up on a guard tower!!! :roll:

Fozzy, you might be right on this one.... but, I just really don't CARE! The Border Patrol has an impossible job, and most of them I have met, are doing it with the SAME "professionalism" that our military exhibits. But, WAR is HELL!! And make no mistake.... there is a WAR going on on our borders!

EVERY person, armed or not, smuggler or migrant worker, who crosses our borders WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION, is breaking the LAW!! We can't always be sure which one is docile, and which is criminal. 9/11 PROVED that!!

Mistakes are MADE in wars! But, if it's Rummy, or some top General.... they get "passed over for promotion" or asked to step down with a pension. To put two Border Patrol agents in prison for a decade, for doing what they thought was RIGHT, is CRIMINAL!

I hope your son never has to be faced with such a situation of "incursion." He might decide NOT to shoot, and by doing so, cost the lives of some of his buddies! Or vice versa ( if THEY don't shoot first and ask questions later!) :roll:

I have not had time to study EVERY aspect of this trial. IF these agents were a bit too aggressive, I agree there should be some punishment. But, I believe the sentences they got were EXCESSIVE under the circumstances of the WAR they are in!

Overzealous prosecution of Military members, OR Border Patrol agents is like Political Correctness. It leads to a society (or FORCE) TOO AFRAID to defend itself! I am NOT willing to go that far!

I'm a Democrat, and at times, I lean toward the Liberal side. But, I am really a Centrist with some Conservative views. I will both die AND KILL to protect Civil Rights! But, these guys were charged, in part, with violating this scumbag's Civil Rights... and that is just not RIGHT! HE was NOT an American, and he HAD NO CIVIL RIGHTS once he illegally crossed that border with the intent to smuggle contraband of ANY type!

The very THOUGHT of giving him immunity, once we KNEW for a fact what he was doing, and HAD done, to testify in OUR COURTS against an American who fights for our SECURITY (again, in light of 9/11) is an abomination!

 

So my son should be fragged for being on a detail escorting prisoners (who raped a 14 year old and killed her whole family) from his own unit to their trial, This unit is ashamed of these people and I assure you that my son was selected for his standing in the unit. He is not an Airborne Ranger and I never said he was, He is in the 101st...

You do not care about the testimony of the case being discussed and you support some unarmed and unidentified person was assaulted (clubbed in the face) shot in the back..

You are not even knowledgeable enough to realize that the bill of rights is not about the citizens, it is about the governments treatment of people. Their immigration status does not mean that they have no rights. I think if this is what the country's standards have fallen too.. let the Fundi Muslims have the damn place. We are no different in their treatment of people that they are.

Discussion over...

 

You know...Until this thread, I had never heard of these two Border Patrol agents. Now...I true do not care, that these guy's shot a piece of scum...but there are one or two on the forum whom do.

After some goggling, I found this; from this website: http://www.gopusa.com/news/2007/marc...r_agents.shtml

Administration not willing to pardon convicted Border Patrol agents
By Chad Groening and Jenni Parker
AgapePress
March 8, 2007

(AgapePress) -- Author and investigative journalist Jerome Corsi says he believes two former U.S. Border Patrol agents will remain in jail for a while because the Bush administration apparently does not want to anger the Mexican government. The two men were convicted in the shooting of an illegal alien drug smuggler; however, a number of congressional leaders believe they were victims of a witch hunt.

The conviction of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean was based largely on the testimony of the illegal alien smuggler himself -- Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, who was given complete immunity to testify against them. The two former Border Patrol agents were sentenced to 132 months and 144 months in federal prison, respectively, on charges associated with the February 2005 shooting of Aldrete-Davila near the U.S.-Mexican border in Fabens, Texas.

An El Paso jury convicted Ramos and Compean of assault with serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, and a civil rights charge. They two men were also convicted of four counts and two counts, respectively, of obstruction of justice. The ex-officers are serving their 11- and 12-year sentences in federal prison; meanwhile, Aldrete-Davila is now suing the U.S. government for $5 million.

Dr. Jerome Corsi, who has done an extensive investigation on the case, believes the Bush administration has no intention of pardoning Ramos and Compean, despite a petition signed by more than 80 members of Congress calling for their release. "I think Ramos and Compean are going to be in jail for a while longer," the investigative journalist says. "The White House is dug in on this issue."

Also, the Mexican Consul has intervened in the case and in others and demanded that the Border Patrol agents be prosecuted, Corsi contends. The author says he agrees with what Texas Congressman Ted Poe told him -- that is, that "it looks like, under the Bush administration, our Department of Justice is working for the Mexican government."

However, there are a number of irregularities in the case, Corsi notes, which cause him to believe the two agents should not have been found guilty. He believes the Bush administration gave Aldrete-Davila complete immunity to testify against the agents in order to appease the Mexican government.

Corsi says when Mexican Consulate officials "got hold of Davila, they said [to the White House], 'Two of your Border [Patrol] agents wounded him; we want them prosecuted.'" And that, the journalist contends, is apparently when "the Bush White House snapped to attention and said 'Yes, sir' to Mexico and began the process of opening up a case against Ramos and Compean."

It was at that time that U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton opened a file on the case, Corsi says; and "that's when the Department of Homeland Security file opened." For that reason, he says, one can see how Congressman Poe could say that the Bush administration almost seems to be working for Mexico.

So, despite congressional pressure, Ramos and Compean are likely going to remain in jail a while longer, Corsi says. However, he notes that another former Border Patrol agent who was prosecuted under similar circumstances has since had his conviction overturned.

Copyright © 2007 AgapePress -- All rights reserved.

I also found this; from this website: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/17/Dob...y18/index.html

com.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- There was an unusual spectacle in the nation's capital Tuesday, downright rare, in fact: U.S. Senators seeking truth, and justice, and taking action. And they deserve great credit and thanks.

The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, led by Dianne Feinstein, focused on the reasons for the prosecution of two Border Patrol agents now serving long sentences in federal prison. Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean were given terms of 11 and 12 years respectively on their convictions for shooting an illegal alien drug smuggler.

Senator Feinstein, and Senators Jeff Sessions, John Cornyn, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn demanded answers of U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, who chose to prosecute Compean and Ramos and give that illegal alien drug smuggler blanket immunity to testify against the men.

Sutton's decision to prosecute the agents, to file attempted murder charges against them and seek harsh mandatory prison sentences was simply an outrage. Senators Feinstein, Sessions and Cornyn took Sutton to task over what they clearly see now as a blatant abuse of prosecutorial power and strongly questioned the decision to give immunity to a known illegal alien drug smuggler. Sutton's office gave the smuggler immunity in order to prosecute the two agents who had pursued him in a high-speed chase, which ultimately resulted in the wounding of the drug dealer who had ditched his van, loaded with hundreds of pounds of drugs, and ran from the agents.

I have maintained throughout that the prosecution of these two agents was unwarranted, that sufficient facts were in dispute that the case should never have been brought to trial. The two Border Patrol agents received excessive sentences by any reasonable standard of justice. But reason did not prevail, and the Senate Judiciary Committee has begun the process of righting this wrong.

The agents were serving their nation in a war zone along our southern border. The fact is Mexico remains the primary corridor for drugs entering the United States. Mexico is the principal source of heroin, cocaine, marijuana and methamphetamines into this country. Between 70 and 90 percent of cocaine entering the United States from South America passed through mainland Mexico or its waters. Heroin brought in from Mexico accounts for about 30 percent of the U.S. market, despite Mexico's relatively small percentage of worldwide production. Mexican traffickers continued to dominate drug distribution in the United States, controlling most of the primary distribution centers. Our border with Mexico is the main battlefield in the war against drugs, and the federal government has treated Ramos and Compean with contempt rather than gratitude for their service on the front lines of that war.

Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar Tuesday testified at the hearing that from February 1, 2005 to June 30, 2007, there were 1,982 incidents where Border Patrol agents have been assaulted. These assaults include rock throwing, physical assaults, vehicular assaults as well as shootings. In response, Border Patrol agents have responded with the use of deadly force on 116 occasions, with 144 agents discharging their weapons during these 116 incidents.

Aguilar also testified that 13 assailants died as a result, and 15 incidents ended with the assailants being wounded. Of the 144 agents involved, comprehensive investigations were formally conducted, and not a single agent has been criminally prosecuted for their actions. Then why in the world did Sutton choose to prosecute agents in this case? The senators did not like U.S. Attorney Sutton's answers.

TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, the union that represents Ramos and Compean, expressed anger at the sentences Tuesday and said the Border Patrol is suffering as a result: "The ramifications of this case [will be felt] by the Border Patrol," Bonner said. Bonner added an anecdote about a former Border Patrol recruit who eventually declined joining and said "You have to be crazy to join this outfit, because you eat your own."

Senator Feinstein and Senator Cornyn announced Tuesday night on our broadcast that they have decided to request that President Bush commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean. The family of Ignacio Ramos watched and listened to the senators make their announcement in our Washington, D.C., bureau, and they were moved to tears.

They weren't alone.

Now..I did find on website, that refers to "an attempt" to strike the drug smuggler, by Compean...but that website was pretty much devoted to calling all Border Patrol agents various types of criminals, form drug smugglers to serial murder'ers.


Fozzy...why are you so angry that this piece of crap was shot? I for one, am angry that our Government was more interested in prosecuting these two agents, instead of the piece of scum who got shot..while fleeing from them.

Wait...wait...they must have crossed the border..then chased him across, INTO America..right??

 

Fozzy said:

That would be against the U.S. Constitution!

Not TRUE. Hardly, possible!

Not relevant! They have the RIGHT to assume this, based on his actions, and their "rules of engagement."

Not TRUE!! MOST of the illicit drugs in this country are consumed by whilte collar types, most of them with college degrees!

Actually, most of them don't "demand" anything! They USE because it is "available."

Not TRUE!! Drug smuggling goes back WAY before the discovery of America!

Not RELEVANT or logical in the context! Comparing the "victims" of 9/11 to the Agents, doesn't FIT! It would be more proper to compare them to the "poor victim" drug smuggler who was "attacked" by the Agents.... but you didn't DO that! Apples and Oranges! :wink:

Not TRUE!! They're called "Coyotes" and they are Mexican! This is so blatantly ignorant, it barely deserves comment! :roll:

Not TRUE!! He was comparing the abandonment of trucks to the problem of "illegals" entering the country by whatever means to find their NEW LIFE here! You really need to work on your Comprehension! :wink:

True and NOT true!! Yes, the Mexican drivers under the pilot program have been "invited" by BUSH.... but NOT by the rest of us! But, that is not the same as the illegal immigrants who've crossed the border to work in the fields, burden our healthcare system and our schools, fill our prisons due to their crimes! One can't even begin to believe that we have given a blank check and a blanket invitation to every Illegal immigrant that invades our southern border!

Dang, Fozzy!! It seems you've been posting a bunch of Bullsh!t here!!

True!!