[golfhobo]

gator said:

ON THE OTHER HAND...I was in Viet Nam during 1968. We lost 14,000 men during my tour there and...


Fonda cheered every loss.

Please provide PROOF to substantiate this LIBELOUS statement, or modify your post to show that it is only YOUR uninformed opinion.

Thanks.

[golfhobo]

Yoopr said:

I was there around the same time as you but you'd have to get in the Line behind me.

And BOTH of you would have to go THROUGH me! (one at a time, of course!) :lol:

[greg3564]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Well, actually.... I was under the impression that the real power lay with those who had CCW permits and strapped on their Six Guns!! :lol:

Hey, wait a minute, I have a CCW but no power. Man, I got jipped! :shock:

[greg3564]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Greg: If you remember a specific part of it, and want to quote or paraphrase it, go ahead.

I deleted the entirety of the message because I felt I had gotten TOO emotional and perhaps spiteful. I am TRYING to turn over a new leaf! :lol:

I DID, however, save it to my notepad, first! I just don't know if I want to "put it out there" to enrage my conservative friends on this board.

Suffice it to say, if people will READ the entire Snopes article, they will know they are propogating and responding to a LIE and a HOAX.

Fozzy said it best. This HOAX is intended to unfuriate some people.... and it worked with ME!!

I believe the original poster said he just got it in his email this morning (although that may have been part of the email itself.) If so.... he is WAY behind the times, and not really worth my effort to enlighten.

If anyone ELSE DID have time to "quote" or copy my entire message, I would appreciate you respecting my wishes to hold it back.

Well, I don't have it copied and would not post it out of respect if I did. You had some very valid points and some that I would have loved to "discussed." :wink: . I could definately tell you were hot under the collar when you wrote it. :lol:

[golfhobo]

Yeah, I was HOT! :lol:

I'm a FIRM believer in the Constitution and Individual Rights, expecially Free Speech, Right to Petition the Government for Redress, Protection from illegal search and seizure, and no quartering of soldiers against my will.

If one studies deeply into the meaning of these rights, they will see that the first one or two applies fully to Ms. Fonda. The second one protects the rights of ALL "anti-war protestors" (along with the right to assemble which I didn't mention,) the third one CLEARLY makes the Bush wiretapping program, in direct conflict with the FISA courts, illegal.... and the fourth one, if defined properly, actually means that Americans cannot be "forced" to support FEDERAL military troops. (Keep in mind, this was written at a time when STATE'S Rights were considered OVER that of the Federal Government.

Now, that doesn't MEAN I don't SUPPORT our troops!!! It means I have a Constitutional right not to have MY PROPERTY (money) confiscated for the purpose of "quartering" (supporting) a FEDERAL military force during time of war.

Don't BLAME ME, if you don't like it! "I" didn't write the Constitution or the Bill of Rights!

"Aiding and Abetting" our enemies is a VERY "slippery slope" that could include MANY in the administrations over the last 70 years! Libbey and Cheney are the ones under the microscope at the moment. Benedict Arnold sold us out to the British and WAS "sent far away from the U.S."

There have been SEVERAL in recent years, who were in the CIA or other "defense" positions who have been convicted of treason and are in prison for it. And I take PARTICULAR offense to THEM! This Ghadan guy, who is propogandising, at the very least, for Al Quaida, is TOPS on my list! But, you know what? He hasn't yet done anything worse than Tokyo Rose... who was later PARDONED by (Republican) President FORD!!
(Along with NIXON!! IMHO, the biggest traitor to the Constitution TO DATE!)

Do you remember that Private in WWII (I believe) who was SHOT for treason? (can't remember his name, but there was an excellent movie about it.)

TREASON against my beloved United States is something I feel strongly about! It is NOT a term to be thrown about "lightly" (as in the impeachment trial of Clinton!) In a FREE society like we have, one must be VERY clear and specific when making such a charge. And, it is a VERY thin line between RIGHTS and Abuses!

The rootword, or origin, of TREASON and TRAITOR is found in the word, or root of the word, BETRAY. IMHO, BETRAYING the Constitutional rights of Americans is MUCH closer to the intended meaning of the word Treason, than exercising your Free Speech to "criticize" the government or a specific WAR!

In that respect, I will leave OPEN the obvious question of WHO is the bigger "traitor?"

When I was in the military, in the Intelligence branch, I was trained and prepared for the possibility of giving up my life to protect military secrets and personnel. Under the HORRIFIC conditions of torture that many of our servicemen in Vietnam experienced (and SOME GAVE IN TO!,) I can't say for sure whether I would have met my own expectations, or not.

But, I know for a fact, I can and WILL stand between a punch and a nose to protect someone's RIGHT to free speech, EVEN when it is "unflattering" to the Administration of the country I LOVE!

And now, even though I KNOW it will be controversial (as if the rest of my post wasn't,) I MUST voice this FREE opinion that I have. When a "certain" party of citizens "wraps themselves in the flag" and marches "lockstep" in line with the political Mantra of a Charismatic leader in a time of real or perceived crisis.... to the point they are willing to TURN ON and abridge the rights of those fellow citizens who disagree with them, HISTORY PROVES that we are not too far away from..... well..... let's just say a TOTALITARIAN or CONTROLLED society!

And, ladies and gentlemen, I have ancestors that died to PROTECT me from THAT form of government and society! THEY are my true HEROES! And I will NOT let their sacrifice be in vain!

[Useless]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

There have been SEVERAL in recent years, who were in the CIA or other "defense" positions who have been convicted of treason and are in prison for it. And I take PARTICULAR offense to THEM! This Ghadan guy, who is propogandising, at the very least, for Al Quaida, is TOPS on my list! But, you know what? He hasn't yet done anything worse than Tokyo Rose... who was later PARDONED by (Republican) President FORD!!

(Along with NIXON!! IMHO, the biggest traitor to the Constitution TO DATE!)

Golf,

I am at a loss to understand how anyone can claim that Nixon was the biggest traitor to the U.S. Constitution...........Nixon was simply caught up in a petty, stupid scandal thet to this day defies logical explanation.

Were FDR, Truman, JFK, and LBJ, and later, Bush41, examined under the same political microscope, they would have faired no better.

Now, I'm not defending Nixon or Watergate here; yet, Watergate PALES in comparison to the crimes and treasonous activities of both the Clinton(s) Administration, who's crimes of treason have been exceeded only by Bush43 & Co.

As for Ford's pardoning of Nixon, speaking as a moderate to liberal Democrat, I think that Ford did precisely the right thing. Given the social temperament of the aftermath of Watergate, there is simply no way that Richard Nixon could have received a fair trial by an impartial jury.

Also, when you consider the very serious strains that were being placed upon our nation's economy, ("stagflation" was what they called it; economic recession combined with double digit inflation and interest rates!!) combined with the very precarious foriegn policy we were dailing with, and the fact that the "Watergate fixation was hindering Ford's ability to govern, I believe that history has had no choice but to vindicate Ford for his decision.

George McGovern and Ted Kennedey are hardly what anyone could consider to be Republican panderers, but they have both publicly stated that history has vindicted Ford.

It was an act of political courage. Ford may have had a public image of being a klutz on the ski slopes, but in truth, he was actually a very astute backroom political deal broker; he knew at the time he decided to pardon Nixon that he was most likely committing political suicide by making that decision, but I do believe that he demonstrated considerable political courage in his decision.

[yoopr]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Yoopr said:

And BOTH of you would have to go THROUGH me! (one at a time, of course!) :lol:

No Problem

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by yoopr

No Problem

I figured you'd say as much, Yoopr. And, I DID add a smiley face. But, you REALLY don't know how difficult that might be!

But, I'm not getting into a Pizzin contest with you over it. My point really is, that you will have to BEAT your way through another VET who has the b@lls to stand up against you to protect another citizen's right to free speech.

You might win, and I might get bloody. But, I won't stand by and let it happen without giving MY best to defend the Constitution. That's ALL I can do, but I will do no LESS!

I believe the "Enlisted Oath of Service" says, "I will defend the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC."

I would have no way of knowing what Oath is taken by the NEO-CON Party of America! But, somehow, I bet it was written by Ann Coulter! :roll:

[Useless]

Not trying to hijack the thread here, or anything, but I just learned that Jane Fonda has broken off her engagement to a wealthy investor named Jack Peters.

The reason for the break-up was that had she married, her new name would have been:

Jane Fonda'-Peters!!

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Useless