Ben45750 Wrote:

I just don't agree with Ramsey's idea that you should pay cash for everything. If you never use credit and pay cash for everything your FICA score will go to the toilet and that will keep you from getting the house you want or a car that you want. Also having a low FICA score can keep you from getting a good job. Roadway pulled my credit when I was hired and if you have a low score they will not hire you.

Ben45750:

To some degree, I can agree with you, but only to a very limited degree.

As far as borrowing money to pay for a car??

I maintain that if you have adequate cash to by a car and pay cash for it, then there is nothing wrong with borrowing against your own money in order to keep your FICO history current and strong. The difference here is that you are borrowing against your money, not borrowing for a depreciating asset that will be used as collateral; that means a lower interest rate, as well as having most of the interest payment offset by the interest earned on your assigned savings.

As far as borrowing money to buy a "nice car" that is nore than you need?? Same principal applies, except that you will be borrowing against money that could produce a more lucrative return invested in other areas. Again, you are still borrowing against a depreciating asset; one that costs you more each day, while at the same time, becoming worth a little less each day than it was worth the day before.

Your FICO score doen't mean squat if you are not also building for true prosperity.

As far as employability being tied to a strong credit rating??

Again, I do agree with you to some extent, but there is far more here than meets the eye here;

Yes, a higher credit score does show you to be capable of handling committments and responsibilities, but there is another side to that coin that is not discused very much. Speaking as an employer, I will tell you that when a person is carrying substantial debt, and has handed that element of control of his life over to other people and/or financial institutions, it makes it easier for an employer to maintain control over his/her employees. It serves as one less reason for me to invest anymore than I have to in a person who works for me.

"So, you need a raise, do you"??

"Well, gee!! Were you not driving that nice p/u truck, which gets 14mpg, and gasolone costs at $2.849 per gallon, with a 30 mile round trip to work and back,and making payments of over $700. per month, you wouldn't be in my office "neding a raise", would you"??

"Sorry, the promotion went to someone else"!!

"It went to someone who may not be as technically qualified as you are, someone who has a coulpe of years less experience than you do, but someone who can get the job done, get it done well, and someone who's thinking is more compatable with mine!!

Okay, I understand that you are upset; if you can find a situation that works better for you elsewhere, then go for it"!!......"Of course, you'll need to carry your health insurance through us, paying COBRA rates, or buy it on the open market, or be without coverage for you and your family"

In Texas, a divorced father is required to carry health insurance for his children, although they most likely live with there mother. How do you deal with that??

So, the more debt that you carry, the more extended your lines of credit become, the higher your FICO score rises, then the less financial freedom you'll have, then the more limited your options become, the more controll that I, as "The Boss" have over you, not only in terms of carrer development and opportunities for growth, but also in terms of my need, incentive, or desire to invest anything more in you than I absolutely have to!!

As far as not having a sufficient FICO score to borrow because you carry no debt??

There IS some truth to that, but not to the extent that the money changers would have you believe. That principal wILL apply if you work through what I call "Morron Lenders".....the desk jockey who has no real authority to do anything more than shuffle papers and check credit histories.....Believe me, what any good lender wants to see is a history of your ability and willingness to pay your debt on time. A person with a lower credit score, but with a strong financial portfolio will have no trouble obtaining financing. If a lending institution tries to sell you the "debt in the name of FICO' line of crap, then do yourself an them a big favor....get up from the chair and walk out the door. Don't waste another moment of your tome, or the FICO Moron's time.

There are far better people to deal with.

Ben, I know that your mind is made up, and that I'm not going to change it. It is my hope that others who follow this thread may now have a clearer understanding as to why I REQUIRE everyone who works for me, regardless of position or title, to attend Financial Peace University, whether or not a person understand the need for it.

BTW, Yes, I do pay people for their time while attending, and yes, I do pay for the cost of the program, so NO!! I'm not exploiting anyone!!

 

Sure people shouldnt buy things they cant afford...however, I thank them for it. People who arent smart with money and credit actually help the people who are smart with money.
Example: Credit cards make ALL of their profit from the higher interest rates and late charges. In other words people who dont know how to use credit cards properly are what keeps them in business. These people also allow me to use credit cards completely free. I personally, pay all my credit cards off every month and therefore I am not charged interest. So for that, I thank the stupid people.
In a free country people are free to be stupid with money, therefore you will never be able to change the way things are now. Many people are always going to live paycheck to paycheck and buy too much on credit. That is their choice. Its my choice to find ways to take advantage of their choices.

 

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Ben45750:

Do you have any idea of just how shallow, myopic, convoluted, and totaly ASININE your opinion is here??

Let's see; (BTW, This is a VERY long winded sentence, but I'n going to hit this all in one shot!!)

If people who are having finacial troubles, they turn to Dave Ramsey for help, they attend Financial Peace, Universtiy, they implement the tools offered and strategies taught, they work at melting down their debts, the build their savings, the begin building a strong financial protfolio, they gain control over their lives and destinies, they wake up each morning, knowing that whatever problems they face, money will not be one of them, their marraiges, family relationships, both within immediate, or extended family, friendships, business relationships, many or all who may have been strained by mounting financial pressures, worries, tensions, and fears, become healed, restored, and strengthened, then Dave Ramsey will be out of business...............hmmmmm!!!

These folks who have found financial peace, and build a good, solid foundation for true prosperity, unencumbered by handing over control of their lives, all in the mane of FICO and General Motors, are not going to want to reach out and help other people. They are not going to be walking, talking advertising tools for Dave Ramsey, or Financial Peace University. The will not be encouraging their friends, family, loved ones, or coworkers about the great things that are going on in their lives, and they won't DARE mention that it all began by listening to Dave Ramsey, or attending Financial Peace University.

So, just as the idea of "Snowballing Debt" is concerned, (which, as I'm sure you know, is destined to fail.....it HAS to fail, or else the whole concept of what Dave Ramsey teaches and preaches would succeed!!), there will be no "Snowballing" of referals comming via "Word of Mouth" advertising, which is the cheapest, lwast costly, and most powerful means of advertising in existance

Well, Ben, on second thought, I guess you are right about this; Dave Ramsey DOESN'T want to help people!! He'd put himself out of business, wouldn't he!!........of course, given the fact that Dave is heavily involved in Real Estate investments, his work in that industry would suffer as well!!

 

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you on many things.

Money is a very important part of people's lives but his teaching is that not owing anyone will bring you happiness. There is more to life than money and the more you have does not bring more happiness.

 

Sheepdancer:

After reading your reply, I am now convinced that you, me, and all the other folks here need to start studying "The Book of Revelation" in The Bible with gtreat fervor and intensity!!

We seem to be agreeing a lot more these days!!

Now I don't know if that has anything to do with the opening of The Seals, The Trumpets, The upcomming times of pestilence and famine, & wierd weather, but there has to be some connection somewhere with all of that!!

This is getting downright frightening!!

THE END IS NEAR!!

DRIVERS, PLEASE HAVE YOUR LOG BOOKS UP TO DATE!!!

 

Ben:

Again, to some extent, I DO agree with you. And again, to some extent, I also disagree with Dave.

When it comes to an appreciating asset, such as the purchase of a home, then carrying a certain element of debt can be useful as a tool to building prosperity.

A car??

Under certain circumstances debt has a place there, too!! Parents with small children need to be in a car that is crashworthy and mechanically sound. As technology advances, the days of the old "shade tree" mechanic are waning. So, if carrying an element of debt will serve the need for safety and reliability, then I say YES!! There IS a place for debt here; now IMHO, that also means buying an economical vehichle with fewer bells and whistles. The debt should be no more than is absolutely neccessary.

I borrowed money to buy my airplane, but the plane did not serve as collateral, so I receives a much more favorable financing arrangement.
No, the plane is not a depreciating asset, but when flown regularly, and maintained properly, the do hold their resale value quite well.

In my case, the plane is not a toy; it is a tool. It allows me to get from one place to another without having to cool my heals in airports for hours, that could be spent productively doing other things, and with my investments and real estate dealings, it makes it possible for me to get places where the airlines can't or won't go. Also, because I am able to fly direct, without having to arrive aat the airport 1&1/2 or 2 hours early, and without having to cool my heals waiting on connecting flights, or dealing with being bumped off of a flight, I can even beat the jets to certain places!! Nicest of all?? No security checkpoints, no waiting in lines ,no worries about landing in Denver, only to find that my luggage is now somewhere between Atlanta and Washington, D.C.!!

Believe it or not, even though I can only cruise at about 225 kts, I can beat SouthWest From San antonio, Tx. to Louisville Kentucky, and I can make it to Knoxvill, Tn just as quickly as Delta, because there are no layovers or connecting flights to have to contend with.!!

So, based upon the tax advantages that go along with owning the plane, along with the time savings, and increased accessibility to small towns, it made sense to finance the pruchase; there have been times when it has made the difference between making a deal, or not making one. At the same time, there was no risk involved to me or the lender. The funds to service the debt were invested very conservatively, and while they didn't earn as much as they would have had they been invested more aggressively, the fact was that I had an asset which bought me time, increased my productivity, and (please don't tell the IRS I said this!!) provided me with a considerable element of pleasure in the process!!

So, there is a time and a place for certain types of debt, as long as the debt is not excessive, and as long as it serves a productive purpose!!

What you must also bear in mind is that debt is a lot like alcohol; We'd all be better off if we never drank it. Some people choose not to p[artake of it, some partake of it responsibly, and others abuse it and depend upon it.

From what you are telling us, you do not consume it in excess (for the most part, although if you are worrying about adding to your savings, I see that as a problem; you should be paying yourself first!), but the people who call Dave Ramsey are, for the most part, "Debtaholics" who's lives are beinf damaged by debt, and who's futures are being threatened or endangered by it/

So, if Ramsey and FPU don't work for you, well, then, that is a matter of your affair; but to the people who nees him, and to the people who are willing to knuckle down, take their medicine, and suffer the pain of financial rehavilitation, he has offered them new hope for the future.

Given the number of people who I know, who have turned to him and either wiped out their debts completely, or have slashed them, and actually built a savings account, he means the world to them.......hardly what you can call a "Financial Predator"!!

One more thing, Ben!!

I strongly agree that money and possessions do not bring happiness; at the same time, you must also realize that for many (but not all) of the people who call Dave looking for help are calling because they bought into the idea that material wealth COULD buy happiness!!

Dave is hardly "preying upon poor people" by telling them, essentially, "You got yourself and your family into this mess; you are going to have to get yourself out of this mess; now, let's begin with baby step one"!!

He also talks about "giving up the "stuff", so that isn't preaching that materialism can buy happiness.

No, money in itself will not buy happiness. Yet, it IS a TOOL that can help provide inner peace. Financial worries are one of the most common worries that rob us of our peace; they trap us, they close doors of opportunity, they limit, restrict, or in all too many cases, close out options that could help make us stronger.
The way to become stringer, to open new doors of opportunity, to build that inner peace is by lowering, and gradually eleminating the cahin of debt that binds people.

Taking on more debt only makes matters worse; we can't "borrow our way to true prosperity"

 

Another interesting thing about your FICO score, it's tied directly to your auto-insurance rates!

Insurance companies studied many factors, and came to the conclusion bad credit usually means you will make more claims.

Consumer Reports has an article on this, and given the exact same circumstances, except different FICO scores, sometimes made a difference of hundreds, even thousands of dollars per year!

 

You just don't get it. :roll:

 

Your probably right, I don't get it. I don't get it because I would rather listen to fart jokes on the radio than listen to Dave Ramsey. I admit it. I enjoy listening to "shock jocks" and I cannot stand to listen to boring radio. Thats my problem.

Here is what I do get though if you want some really good financial advice!
http://www.tonyrobbins.com/Content/Financial.aspx

A man that goes from nothing to having a net worth of $480,000,000 thats impressive to me. Yes, I have and do listen to him quite often

 

So, who forces you to listen to Dave Ramsey??