We're splitting hairs at this point, but you knew that.

Here's where you and I will agree to disagree. The "how to deal with that" depends very much on how an individual thinks about things, and there is no 'one size fits all' answer. I don't disagree that the general notions make sense, as I said in my first post. The proper way to make people adapt their behavior will depend largely on the thoughts and influences that led to that behavior.

That's probably a good thing for your employees.

And here's where I think we agree to agree. Many people, when they mention Dave Ramsey, sound almost like cult members who think the guy walks on water. That's the only point that I would caution against. People should listen to what he says and decide for themselves whether or not it suits them.

 

The thing I like about Dave Ramsey is that he actually tries to get people to help themselves. To take a good look at what they are doing to themselves with their high debt. Unfortunately, many people are never taught anything about managing their money and handling financial matters. I have listened to him on the radio for several years and appreciate the education he is attempting to give the average person. Parents and schools should be teaching some of the principles he teaches. We buy a lot of things we don't really need. One way we buy these things is through credit. We cannot really afford them, so we use credit to get what we want. Notice I didn't say what we need.

 

Useless:
To the extent of FPU being a cult, or Ramsey's teachings being cultish?? I would disagree in that respect. Where ramsey's proffessions of combining Christianity with financial planning come into play, I am much inclined to agree.

At the same time, I do support Homeless Shelters that are very much Christian based. Why?? Because even though I am not a Christian, the programs they offer to the homeless, the addicted, and the mentally ill are still better than what the streets have to offer!!

As far as Ramsey "walking on water"?? For people who have walked and trudged through the valley of financial dispair and hopelessness, to rise from the ashes and climb the mountain of financial enlightenment?? Well, he has played a very important role in helping them get there.

From around the end of January to the end of June of this year, I battled a nasty ear infection that had me sidelined very badly. During the month of May, I drove exactly 113.5 miles; no flying, no fishing, no scuba diving, no camping, working hard but getting very little accomplished... that is what my life had become.

I also lost about 80% of my hearing in my left ear. I NEVER immagined hoe much I took my hearing for granted before then. I never fully appreciated the gift, until I almost lost it.

after a couple of successful surgeries to remove a tumor and scar tissue on my eardrum I never knew what it was to be sidelined and scared. Now, the EENT who did the surgery is not the nicest man in the world, but in my mind, does he walk on water??

Looking at what I'd lost, and what he made it possible for me to regain?? Yep!! I'd say he does!!

Peace,
Useless

 

G-Man:

IMHO, Dr. Allen Greenspan was the greatest financial mind our nation if not the world as a whole, has ever seen.

Not long after his controversial observations and musings about the "unfounded over-exhuberance in the stock matket" remarks back in 2000, Dr. Greenspan once noted that "If people ever stop buying things that they don't need, with money that they don't have, our economy is going to be in very serious trouble". That remark didn't win him any friends, either!!

......sad part of it all is that he was exactly right!!

 

Fortunately the majority of folks in this country buy stuff they don't need which results in my having a job.
:lol:

 

Or, all too often, having what once was a job here in America, but has now been exported to other countries!!
:twisted:

 

Maybe so. Oh well, guess I'll begin packing to move to one of those places.
:P

 

I don't think we see this subject nearly as different as you seem to imply. On this point though, you've essentially confirmed what I said. Your example of a drunk is a perfect one. The only 'solution' for the issues faced by a drunk is not to drink. However, unless you know the ins and outs of how that person became a drunk, what his family history is, what forms of motivation have failed in his life, what forms have succeeded, and so on, and so on... you'll give him advice that he could get in a book at Walgreen's. My point has never been that people can get good results from bad behavior. It is that people who seek advice, which is Ramsey's milieu, might as well get advice that applies to them specifically.

And to clarify the 'cult' comment, it had nothing to do with religion. Any time people, in lockstep, say [whatever or whoever] is great, without qualification, a red flag goes up for me.

Anyhow, if people want to think every word from one guy holds true for them personally, good for them. I've heard plenty of his shows where my reaction to his advice was, "Whoa, wait a minute." He's made more money than I have, so my thoughts really only matter to me, but sometimes I find his advice to be flat-out wrong. To each his own.

 

[Edited After Posting Rebuttal To "VitoCorleone99's Replies.]

Vito:
After reading your responses to my remarks, several matters are very clear to me.

While we have some differences in perspectives, I do agree that, as you so astutely pointed out, the margins that seperate those differences are not as wide as one might think.

In discussing these issues, you have brought some interesting perspectives into this discussion, and you have handled our differences of opinions in ways that exemplify depth of thought, articulate responses and points, and an element of civility that enhances the quality of our discussion.

You have also demonstrated a keen capacity for disagreeing without being disagreeable, which I believe is worthy of applause as well.

Please accept my most heartfelt thanks, as well as my highest compliments.

Thanks,
Useless

Useless:
There are certain areas where Dave Ramsey and I disagree as well;.....but ask youself this question:

If you were looking for a financial healing in your life, who's advice would you take??

Would you follow Dave Ramsey's advice, or would you take advice from me??

Would you take advice from someone who has a fairly substantial net worth, someone who has never had to deal with a bankruptcy, someone who has suffered a few set-backs in life, but has never fallen from the top, down into the pits, and someone who has never had to rebuild??
(ME!!)

OR:

Would you rather take advice fromm someone who has crashed and burned, had to explain to his kids that they were going to have to move out of their home because they couldn't afford to keep it, had to tell his kids "No!!" to the material comforts they had enjoyed, .......

Would you rather take advice from someone who rose from the ashes, crawled through those dark crevasses of financial dispair, and then went on to build a new life with a financial base that could not be torn down? (DAVE!!)

Oh, BTW, remember that if you want to "keep score", Dave Ramsey is much wealthier than I am!!

Hint; If you took my advice over Dave's, you'd be short-changing yourself!! :wink:

 

This is wrong. If everybody stopped using credit to buy stuff they can't afford and save and pay cash they would have more money to spend and the economy would not be hurt it would get better because you would be buying things instead of giving all your money to credit card companies in interest. This is common sence ALSO what DAVE SAYS