98.5% of that was self serving socialist propaganda...

 

......with a hint of denouncing bourgeois democracy as a fraud,
implying American economy as Imperialism with brutal interests
and advocating unity of industrial action and Socialist politics?....



Close am I...hmmmmmm?
Republic reorganization this Dark Side is.
American Socialist movement beware...I fear.

 

The reason so many U.S. companies moved operations overseas was in part, because the government eliminated import taxes on most products. Another reason is that the unions had such a stranglehold that companies could no longer compete in the marketplace by paying such high wages. They could not compete with the cheaper, and often subsidized imports. Finally, the American consumer chose to purchase inferior quality products because they were cheaper.

There are too many people in this country with their hands out for something from the government. Many people simply want a paycheck and don't want to perform. Companies cannot afford to pay workers more than they produce. Unless workers produce at a level which will insure a fair profit, they will either move facilities to a more friendly worker pool or more friendly regulatory environment. Most people don't want to discuss the government's involvement or responsibility in moving companies out of the country. U.S. business has become over regulated by an overzealous government and high taxes. Sometimes it is just easier to move elsewhere.

 

Exactly! This is a multi-faceted problem that cannot be solved by the government and never could be in the first place. The American consumer is and always has been talking out of both sides of their mouths. The fact is clear that they demand one thing and their actions demand something else. The illegal aliens that are here right now are not effecting jobs in the least. They are already here! To say that the amnesty deal will do anything or upset some balance is just plain silly. The border needs to be secured by any and all means necessary and even with secure borders there will still be a problem.

 

If we can just replace those overpriced Americans with Mexicans working for 1/3 the wage,ie... Pharmacists, bank tellers, truck drivers, nurses, etc... it will be good for America. Lower wages means lower prices for our goods and services. At least that what BUSH and the Democrats say?

What you don't think they have pharmacists and bank tellers in Mexico chomping at the bit to get in here and work for $10k a year? Just think of the lower prices we'll pay for medications and bank fees! Yea!

NOT!

These Mexicans want a better life and economic prosperity they need to take their ass back to Mexico and fight for it there! When 1/3 of a nations population (40 million of 120 million) "runs away", abandons it's country that is nothing less than cowardice.

A few thousand immigrating every year is one thing but tens of millions from one country is just cowardice.

If the US becomes a third world cesspool with ALL of our politicians corrupt (as opposed to most) and you have to pay a bribe just to get your mail delivered... will you just "run away" to Canada, or will you fight, protest and vote to change your country. Are we cowards or patriots?

 

Think about this little wrench in the works. If they were no longer classed as illegal, employers would be placed in a positon to actually pay them equal wages as current residents. They in turn would have to pay the same as you for things like taxes, health care, etc. Rates would not go down, they would go up, because with no 'expendable/ cheap' labor force employers would be placed into a position to pay decent or not have qualified staff. Although many employers use unqualified staff they do so because the labor is cheap, take away that and it puts one more kink in the system. If the law passes think about it those people who hunt down illegal aliens they will need new jobs and being that they are doing government jobs do you not think that they will be reassigned to such positions as DOT and OSHA and the focus will turn from illegal staff to safe working conditions. I may be in Canada but the illegal alien problem is just as prevelant here, its not just Mexicans, if you take a look a large portion of the problem is Asian or African. They come froom poorer countries and because they work so cheap and are desperate and will take abuse and poor working conditions they get hired. In Canada believe it or not our Government actaully gives employers tax deductions for hiring people of noncaucasian race or females. AS such discrimination in the labor force has become a white males issue. As a white male will be overlooked for a job if say an African Female applies because she is gold to employers and even more so if shes a single mother, because single mothers are considered by employers to be just like illegal aliens desperate and willing to put up with everything. I say if your government wants to do away with whole illegal alien employee problem let them but make sure that the process they have to go through to actually work in your country is very strict. In other words in order to work in US they must have a set amount of money (So they can purchase residences and pay for health care and things like food) so they are not a burden to the system when they arrive. They should not be allowed to use food banks, welfare or any other social assistance program for a set period after arrival ie 1 year. They should be required to have a none criminal past and be required to obtain citizenship upon arrival giving up their citizenship in their previous country. There should be an immigrant fee to cover the costs of obtaining citizenship to offset costs involved in the process.The government dshould also restrict numbers putting a yearly cap on numbers accepted. If they are going to legal the government should make sure that they are put on equal footing with current residents and are not catered to because they come from somewhere else. Think about it if you were an employer and you had to choose between an employee from this country who the government just takes money from and ignores and an employee from another country who is closely monitored by the government who would you choose? I can tell you and i am sure you know employers do not like governemtn monitoring of any aspect of their businesses.
I guess i am just saying if they pass this law make sure it is a law you can live with and not an employer motivated legal shelter.

 

That's a rather large "if". Sure, things are frustrating and we've got more politicians today that are only interested in lining their own pockets, but we're nowhere near having to rise up and rebel. Politics and government has sucked for years, no doubt. But until I have to pay a bribe to get my mail delivered, it's all part of life. In the meantime, you work peacefully within the law by using your voting rights and your voice to hopefully effect a change.

Today, we have some problems in our country...no mistaking that. But there are no food riots, no fuel riots, no daily terrorist bombings taking out dozens in our marketplaces. No, instead right now, we've got morons lining up on sidewalks for over a week in order to plunk down $600 for a stupid cell phone. :roll:

In the end, I'll fight for my rights if it ever comes to that. But for now, I don't see any combat-booted heavies marching toward my home to take me away because I'm a white male and therefore obsolete.

 

By then it will be too late. :roll:

 

So you advocate violent dissent? And what, pray tell, will that get you? 20-50 in maximum security prison, IF you don't get turned into a seive?

Do you really think this country is so bad off that the ONLY option you have anymore is to march on Washington with guns loaded? There are some things about this country that I don't like anymore than you do. I hate this president's immigration stance, hate this political house's homage to big business, hate the porous borders we have. But while there are still politicians working to attempt to FIX these things I hate, then in my opinion, the system is still working. All I/we need to do is get the right people in office. That's what a level-headed individual is going to do right now.

When the government ceases to listen; when we no longer have the ability to vote; when our voice are no longer heard...then I'll grab my gun and join you. Until then, I'll be happy with the victories like we just won, when the immigration debate bill was shot down. That tells me the system still works. We may have to yell loudly (we knocked out the senate phone lines this week), but they heard us. So, it's still working, even if it's slow.

Now, if you still believe that violent dissent is the only option left, then I'll watch the papers for the newstory. Because that's all you'll have...a blurb on the front page about a few psycho nutjobs that attacked Washington and died in a hail of gunfire and thereby making it even more difficult for the majority to effect a peaceful change.

I'm not saying that it will never get to that point, because it certainly can. But that's a long way away, IF it ever happens. Until then, let your voice and your vote be heard. Those are freedoms that we enjoy...I can't see pissing them all away over a few moments of irrational anger.

 

I have somewhat staid out of these discussions, because I am conflicted. I don't think there is an easy answer, and I reject the militant viewpoints of some of the more conservative posters here. But, I am not for "giving away the farm" either! Some points to ponder:

1) Draw a line from Northern California down across Nevada, over Colorado and Texas to New Orleans. Everything south and west of this line USED to be part of Mexico. We fought a war against Mexico, mostly in Texas, and defeated Generalissimo Santa Anna's troops and held his life at bay. To spare his life, he was forced to sign over all his territories that WE wanted to become part of our growing country. (But, we don't believe in torture.)

2) In doing so, we made "citizens" of all those Mexicans living in those areas! (There were few if ANY white Americans living in these areas.) You might say THAT was the greatest "Amnesty" deal of all time! It is not so unreasonable to believe that these Mexican-Americans would want to extend their good life to their fellow countrymen and families.

3) This part of the country is the most barren, hottest, and most "inhospitable" to the "European" decendants of all America. Most of you couldn't stand to live there if you HAD to. But, due to irrigation projects, it has replaced the midwest as the "breadbasket" (or at least the fruit and vegetable basket) of America.

4) Harvesting these crops is VERY hard work! Regardless of all the complaining about whether or not poor Americans need the jobs.... most WON'T do them! And if these crops are not grown and harvested, you will NOT have certain foods on your table, and as truckers, many of us won't have JOBS!

5) I am NOT for giving FREE "citizenship" to ANY illegal alien! And I think that should be taken completely OFF the table! But, some kind of "guest worker" program that encompasses the millions who are allready here, doing these VERY important jobs, should be considered.

6) Mass deportation would result in mass shortages in our grocery stores! And mass job losses for truckers! Wake up!

7) Identification of these workers, forced taxation... with some form of representation, is only fair for ALL parties. Hell, even the Native Indians have SOME form of "representation" and legal status, don't they?

I am NOT for amnesty and "automatic" citizenship! And I believe that securing our borders is a TOP priority for this country. But, let's remember a little history of how we GOT these "borders." We are an aggressor nation by all definitions of the word. We like to say we "settled" the West (as if it wasn't allready settled by others.) We are not so different than Yugoslavia! If we are not REAL careful, someday U.N. Peacekeepers will be on OUR soil, separating the warring factions of separate cultures who were FORCED to live together.

Roadhog wants to tear down the Statue of Liberty because he's TIRED of extending the "welcome mat" that our forefathers saw fit to extend.
And perhaps he is right, since we have YET to learn to accept those who HAVE allready come, or those we brought here in chains!

Ellis Island was closed for many reasons, but one would be that it is no longer "relevant" since immigrants no longer have to come here by BOAT from Europe! Perhaps, our government should have gotten wise long ago, and "processed" the "immigrants" from Mexico through OTHER ports of entry. Instilled them with the same pride of citizenship, language, and taxation with which our ancestors were imbued.

Let's bring our "dirty little secret" out of the back room! If we "withheld" some of the enttitlement programs that BigWheels rails against from these "illegal immigrants," and made them PAY THEIR OWN WAY... as other immigrants before them have done, they would have less money to send HOME to Mexico! And they would be helping to support the government organizations from which their fellowmen sometimes "overdraw."

And if all else fails, I STILL contend, that if Mexico won't do more to raise the standard of living in its own country, then we should, once again, don the aggressor uniform, and INVADE them! What? Have we done anything LESS in Iraq?? To give these people a true Democratic form of government, and freedom from Tyranny, we should AGAIN expand our borders to include Mexico, and give them a standard of living that will KEEP them at home!

We would gain OIL RESERVES and fertile ground! Vacation spots at a discount, and a MUCH SMALLER southern border to enforce and control! Perhaps, we could have the same "success" with training THEIR troops to interdict drugs and terrorism that we've had in Iraq!

Someone said something in another thread about how "small" our Worldview is. And, I must agree! To think that the borders of this country are set in stone, and cannot be expanded by military force (if necessary) for the the better good of Americans (and all people) is to be IGNORANT of our OWN history, and that of the World! What we are doing in Iraq is not so different than the exploits of Ghengis Khan.... and to FAIL to protect (or EXPAND) our southern border is to pass the way of the Gauls.

Perhaps, just the THREAT of invasion would be enough to get Mexico off it's butt to change its economy for the betterment of its people. But, failing that... I am ALL for "stabilizing" this remaining "festering sore" on our southern butt!

And don't think I'm not totally SERIOUS!

Hobo