[Consider]

oh dear dan...

see the only really good thing about brain damage, is I forget stuff... were people making fun of me with the in foil hat thing...????

I'm mortified just to think.

So it's a good thing that's on the way to being forgotten.

See, I may well have another thread... about the film.... I don't really remember what threads I've started...

And that, my friend, is the main reason to take B12 if you get ridges on your fingernails!

[marcel27208]

anyone know when it comes on again??? i watched part of it.. then i thought it was coming on again the next night and watched a lil bit of that....was it a 2 part series???? anyone know when it comes on again?? it looked GREAT from what i did see

[Windwalker]

I just got to watch it today. I can't give anyone any answers about the response times, but I do know why the towers collapsed. While the buildings were designed to withstand impact, they were not designed to withstand a fire of that magnitude. Once the steel structure reached 300 degrees F, the characteristics of the steel began to change. As the temperature went up, the steel softened. When it gave way, the lower floors could not withstand the impact of the upper floors. They went down.

As to the response time... In the past, anytime a plane was hijacked, it was taken to a location and the passengers held for a ransom of some kind. Planes had never been used directly as weapons. That part was "un-thinkable", so I would expect that everyone involved would have thought they had more time to deal with the hijackings. That would mean that it really was a matter of being unprepared.

[Consider]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

I just got to watch it today. I can't give anyone any answers about the response times, but I do know why the towers collapsed. While the buildings were designed to withstand impact, they were not designed to withstand a fire of that magnitude. Once the steel structure reached 300 degrees F, the characteristics of the steel began to change. As the temperature went up, the steel softened. When it gave way, the lower floors could not withstand the impact of the upper floors. They went down.

As to the response time... In the past, anytime a plane was hijacked, it was taken to a location and the passengers held for a ransom of some kind. Planes had never been used directly as weapons. That part was "un-thinkable", so I would expect that everyone involved would have thought they had more time to deal with the hijackings. That would mean that it really was a matter of being unprepared.

Gosh, thank you.

I could not remember the explanation of why the buildings collapsed. I saw an excellent pbs program on it, I think it was pbs because it was pretty boring except for being fascinating on the scientific level.

I am pretty sure it explained exactly what you said.

In terms of the "unthinkable" that's what Condi said, but that wasn't even remotely true. There were other instances of exactly that plan years and years earlier... only of course the Admin wouldn't want to dwell on that.

Thank you for your post. A lot!!!!

(now back to pbs with this gem!)

Well, been there an back... here's the diagram that was posted there...
and here's the thing I now remember, I think you have to get some metals up to 1200 degrees before they melt... I can't quite remember from when I used to be a silversmith... same with pottery, to make the clay type pots, not much heat is needed, relatively speaking, especially if you use lead glazes, which is why a lot of the pretty folk type dishes are dangerous because of lead content, which spaghetti sauce is very likely to release... to get Stoneware, you need much higher temperatures.

Here's the diagram that was posted at pbs

[/quote]

I just couldn't work out what it was supposed to mean... I couldn't tell if it was saying the temperatures at the WTC were high enough to cause collapse... or the opposite..

[tthunderdan]

...300 degrees will not effect steel, other than making it hot to the touch...the steel in the towers would have had to be subjected to at least 1500 degrees for alot longer than the times the towers were burning to even 'soften' the steel...although it was a poor design (in my opinion anyhow, the way the floors ressted on the edge of the uprites)...a catastrophy up near the top of the towers (a fuel laden jumbo jet) should not have completly demolished the building all the way down to the base like it did...it just doesn't make sense to me...where was the energy source derived from? jet fuel? nah, not hot enuf for long enuf (most of it burned off at impact anyhow), remember the the pics of the lady standing in the impact hole before the collapse? office furniture and computers? nah, gas lines? nah, electrical boxes and cables? nah...

[Consider]

Originally Posted by tthunderdan

...300 degrees will not effect steel, other than making it hot to the touch...the steel in the towers would have had to be subjected to at least 1500 degrees for alot longer than the times the towers were burning to even 'soften' the steel...although it was a poor design (in my opinion anyhow, the way the floors ressted on the edge of the uprites)...a catastrophy up near the top of the towers (a fuel laden jumbo jet) should not have completly demolished the building all the way down to the base like it did...it just doesn't make sense to me...where was the energy source derived from? jet fuel? nah, not hot enuf for long enuf (most of it burned off at impact anyhow), remember the the pics of the lady standing in the impact hole before the collapse? office furniture and computers? nah, gas lines? nah, electrical boxes and cables? nah...

I don't remember the picture... do you have a copy or a link?

[tthunderdan]

here is a small one, scroll down for it...


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=8430

[Consider]

Originally Posted by tthunderdan

here is a small one, scroll down for it...


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=8430

Wow, that whole thing is pretty startling. I mean, startling if you believed the pbs program like I did...

do you have any idea how you can tell if a photo has been doctored, like with Photoshop???

I'm going to post this link over at pbs...

thank you.

Here's the link to the link...
http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic...=445996#445996

[tthunderdan]

...thanks, and no, I do not know how to tell if an image has been altered...just read, and believe whatever you want I guess...videos can be altered/generated almost just as easily...alot of B.S. flying around is one thing you can bank on for sure...from ALL angles...

[Consider]

Take a look at the thread at pbs where I posted your material, Dan and WindWalker...

the resident science buff was very much in agreement with Windwalker, and posted some of the scientific reasons that made the fire hot enough to decompose the cement...

It's interesting, take a look.