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Thread: 16 Hour Rule?

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    sdloe is offline Rookie
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    Default 16 Hour Rule?

    I drive a daycab & route with stores, set up for a 14 hour day. Our 'internal debate' is over the supposed 16 Hour Rule, where we are allowed one day a week to extend the workday to 16 hours, but not the driving hours, this remains at 11. Our dispatcher has been using this provision to put an additional drop or pickup on us, and we (drivers) are not getting through that this is mis-using the rule. For example, I had a 15 hour day Monday because of an added pick-up, then I had a flat tire on Wednesday, which also extended the day past 14 hours. We can't seem to get through to this idiot (dispatcher) that she is more or less, FORCING us to falsify our logbooks.

    How can we address this problem, in a diplomatic and professional manner, since it is falling upon deaf ears?

    Steve

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    Its not up to them....its up to you and your log book.

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    First off, there is no rule that says you can only work 14 hours, you can log line 4 time all you want! The 16 hour rule just lets you extend your 14 to 16, allowing you to drive but still only 11 hours total drive time.

    Example:

    You start at 7AM
    Lets say by the time 9PM rolls around, you have driven a total of 9 hours, but you are delayed for some reason, and still need 2 hours to get back, now your 14 is up, but you can use the 16 hour rule to give you that extra 2 hours to get back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matcat View Post
    First off, there is no rule that says you can only work 14 hours, you can log line 4 time all you want! The 16 hour rule just lets you extend your 14 to 16, allowing you to drive but still only 11 hours total drive time.

    Example:

    You start at 7AM
    Lets say by the time 9PM rolls around, you have driven a total of 9 hours, but you are delayed for some reason, and still need 2 hours to get back, now your 14 is up, but you can use the 16 hour rule to give you that extra 2 hours to get back.
    He's talking about the short haul exemption. Your talking about "unforeseen instances".

    You can use the 16-hour rule ONCE every seven days provide that you have started and stopped at your HOME terminal the past seven days.

    To the OP: That is what the 16 hour rule is for. Your company can extend your work day once a week. We have gone round and round on this rule to. I suggest that if you can, do what I did, take a route that has a lay-over. BAMM!!!!! No more 16 hour for you. Stayed over night somewhere once during the week.

    For example, I had a 15 hour day Monday because of an added pick-up,
    Used the "Short-haul exemption" for what is was made for.

    then I had a flat tire on Wednesday, which also extended the day past 14 hours.
    REFUSE to move the truck once the tire is fixed. Make the company send another driver out to get you and the truck. You already used the "rule" on monday.
    Last edited by Double R; 05-09-2009 at 05:42 AM.
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    I just used the unforeseen circumstance as an example, I know it doesn't have to be an unforeseen circumstance.
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    So all I can do is take it slow.
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    So I wait and watch without a doubt
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by matcat View Post
    I just used the unforeseen circumstance as an example, I know it doesn't have to be an unforeseen circumstance.
    For you OTR drivers, you can use unforeseen circumstances to extend to 16 hours. Just be careful of how you use it.

    For use "Local Wussies", we can be dispatched on a "16 hour" day, provided we meet the requirerments:thumbsup:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double R View Post
    For you OTR drivers, you can use unforeseen circumstances to extend to 16 hours. Just be careful of how you use it.

    For us "Local Wussies", we can be dispatched on a "16 hour" day, provided we meet the requirerments:thumbsup:
    Ummm..... nope, sorry! NO CAN DO. The "adverse driving conditions" exemption (there IS NO unforeseen circumstance rule) allows us to extend our 11 hour driving rule to 13 but ONLY if it doesn't bust our 14 hour clock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
    Ummm..... nope, sorry! NO CAN DO. The "adverse driving conditions" exemption (there IS NO unforeseen circumstance rule) allows us to extend our 11 hour driving rule to 13 but ONLY if it doesn't bust our 14 hour clock.
    I remember you trying to claim unforseen road construction closures under the adverse driving exemption....

    As far as the rule you are quoting, you are mostly correct, but you left off an important part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago View Post
    I remember you trying to claim unforseen road construction closures under the adverse driving exemption....

    As far as the rule you are quoting, you are mostly correct, but you left off an important part of it.
    I'm just saying that there is no exemption classified as "unforeseen circumstances" or "unforeseen instances." And regardless.... it doesn't allow for what Double R said it did.

    The rule being discussed is the 16 hour "exemption" for short haulers. The "adverse driving conditions" exemption is a specific animal. To be honest, I don't even know that it can be used by "local wusses," but if it can... it would still not allow an extension of the 14 hour clock UNLESS the local guy has not yet used his 16 hour exemption for that week.

    Now.... just what "important" part did I leave off?
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
    I'm just saying that there is no exemption classified as "unforeseen circumstances" or "unforeseen instances." And regardless.... it doesn't allow for what Double R said it did.

    The rule being discussed is the 16 hour "exemption" for short haulers. The "adverse driving conditions" exemption is a specific animal. To be honest, I don't even know that it can be used by "local wusses," but if it can... it would still not allow an extension of the 14 hour clock UNLESS the local guy has not yet used his 16 hour exemption for that week.

    Now.... just what "important" part did I leave off?
    the part about the Rev is always right :lol::lol:

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
    I'm just saying that there is no exemption classified as "unforeseen circumstances" or "unforeseen instances."
    What, no "spirit" of the regulation?

    Now.... just what "important" part did I leave off?
    The important part that states that the driver had to be able to complete the trip within the 11 hour clock. If you are in the middle of a multi-day run when you happen upon the adverse conditions, you can only continue to a safe place to park.

    395.1 Scope of rules in this part.

    (b) Adverse driving conditions. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (h)(2) of this section, a driver who encounters adverse driving conditions, as defined in 395.2, and cannot, because of those conditions, safely complete the run within the maximum driving time permitted by 395.3(a) or 395.5(a) may drive and be permitted or required to drive a commercial motor vehicle for not more than 2 additional hours in order to complete that run or to reach a place offering safety for the occupants of the commercial motor vehicle and security for the commercial motor vehicle and its cargo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredog View Post
    the part about the rev is always right :lol::lol:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredog View Post
    the part about the Rev is always right :lol::lol:

    :clap::clap::clap:
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    Rev.Vassago said:

    What, no "spirit" of the regulation?
    Hmm.... not sure. There MAY be one hanging around this topic.

    The important part that states that the driver had to be able to complete the trip within the 11 hour clock. If you are in the middle of a multi-day run when you happen upon the adverse conditions, you can only continue to a safe place to park.
    Interesting point. Forgetting for now that we WERE talking about "local wusses," this time you MIGHT have a point. For OTR drivers, who may not be able to reach their consignee during THAT particular day, I believe you are right. They would have NO expectation of "completing" their trip within the clocks for THAT day anyway, so they MAY not even be given the extra two hours of DRIVING TIME to reach a truckstop or whatever. Maybe only an OFF RAMP or something. This would give their dispatch a full day to schedule a LATE delivery, or repower the load. Then again.... assuming the TOTAL trip was within reach per dispatched hours, WOULD that "exemption" still apply? I don't know. Let's ask the SPIRIT!

    Once again, we have a situation where the FMCSR's are designed to accomodate LOCAL drivers, or SOLO drivers. The fact that they didn't clarify their postition for LONG HAUL drivers, shows that they think in terms of ONE DAY trips. They clearly made an "exemption" based on an expectation that the driver was on his LAST leg of the trip OR it was a ONE DAY trip.

    However, the fact remains that I did NOT leave out any important information when I corrected Double R's statement that OTR drivers could extend their 14 hour clock to 16. Since this was a thread about LOCAL WUSSES, I didn't feel the need to go into extravagant detail about the rules for OTR drivers and take the chance of confusing these "local wusses!" :lol2:

    I left that up to YOU! :clap:
    Last edited by golfhobo; 05-25-2009 at 04:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post

    Once again, we have a situation where the FMCSR's are designed to accomodate LOCAL drivers, or SOLO drivers. The fact that they didn't clarify their postition for LONG HAUL drivers, shows that they think in terms of ONE DAY trips. They clearly made an "exemption" based on an expectation that the driver was on his LAST leg of the trip OR it was a ONE DAY trip.
    The exemption covers both.

    However, the fact remains that I did NOT leave out any important information when I corrected Double R's statement that OTR drivers could extend their 14 hour clock to 16. Since this was a thread about LOCAL WUSSES, I didn't feel the need to go into extravagant detail about the rules for OTR drivers and take the chance of confusing these "local wusses!" :lol2:
    Lousy excuse.

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    Move to Cali. It's 12 & 16 straight across.
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    Rev.Vassago said:

    The exemption covers both.
    Both WHAT? Both local and OTR drivers? Both longhaul vs. dedicated regional drivers who get home evey night? Both Solo and TEAM drivers? Clarify it for me... oh WISE ONE! :roll:

    Lousy excuse.
    Youi would be the "expert" on that. :lol2:
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightsChromeHorsepower View Post
    Move to Cali. It's 12 & 16 straight across.
    Okay, fill me in on this. I thought FMCSA HOS rules were Federal and applied to ALL "interstate" truckers. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I've heard such comments before, but I BELIEVE they apply to local or regional drivers who never drive outside of the state of CA.

    If so, it is not FAIR and responsible to tell OTR drivers that they can move to CA and drive under different rules IF they drive for an INTERSTATE carrier.
    Remember... friends are few and far between.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
    Both WHAT? Both local and OTR drivers? Both longhaul vs. dedicated regional drivers who get home evey night? Both Solo and TEAM drivers?
    Yes. It covers everyone.

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