Out of (morbid) curiosity...

I KNOW that citizens (even illegal aliens) have a right to refuse to allow LEO's to search their personal vehicles - while most cops will force or intimidate an individual into waiving that right - if you step OUT of your car, lock it and tell them to get a WARRANT (absent serious probable cause or contraband in plain view), much as they bully and puff out their chests, officers must obtain a search warrant to go through your car.

I also pretty much know that the same 4th Amendment rights do NOT HOLD TRUE for a CMV. That vehicles registered as CMV's are subject to search (aka: inspection) at ANY TIME without warrant - even the sleeper cab area and sealed loaded - and that evidence obtained via these inspections (down to dumb stuff like torn out log book pages) cannot be suppressed based on the lack of probable cause or a warrant.

What I'm CURIOUS OF - is what part of 49 CFR (or other Federal law) makes this possible, which reg waives 4th amendment rights against warrant-less searches of CMV Tractors, Sleeper Cabs and Trailer Contents?

Rick

 

I think all they really do is peak there head behind the curtain and make sure you have

proper sleep stuff like pillows,sheets,blankets,and fuzzy bunny slippers.

They dont rifle thru all your other stuff as far as i understand.

They want to make sure you comply as far as proper sleeping supplies are concerned.

 

background - this stems from a discussion on another board - where a member there was invited to be the "guest of honor" at a roadside Level 3, and the officer came in through the passenger door, picked up some receipts (a CAT ticket, and some toll receipts) to match up with his logs.

My position was, that unlike a POV - a CMV is subject to "inspection" at any time - and you can't tell an officer; "no, stay out of my cab unless you have a warrant" - as you CAN with your POV.

I wasn't talking about making sure you have a BED in your sleeper berth - more along the lines of fishing expeditions in your cab area for evidence of violations.

CAN YOU REFUSE ACCESS TO YOUR CAB to a LEO who doesn't have a WARRANT TO SEARCH IT? Common sense says - if you have nothing to hide, a search of your cab is no big deal - and REFUSING is going to cause more trouble than it's worth.

I HAVE REFUSED TO ALLOW COPS to search my CAR - end they've either let me go - or in one case, were SO INTENT ON SEARCHING IT, that they made me wait 40 minutes until they actually GOT permission from a Judge. I was CLEAN (which pissed them off to NO END) and when asked WHY I just wouldn't let them search, I told them BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT OR PROBABLE CAUSE TO DO SO. Since I carry a licensed concealed firearm, a search of my car "for the officers safety" is unnecessary, as I DECLARE that I'm armed. Warrants must be SPECIFIC for what they are searching FOR. It can't just say "STUFF" or "CONTRABAND". For the most part, anything NOT SPECIFIED in the WARRANT, that is NOT IN PLAIN VIEW, that is found INCIDENTAL TO A WARRANT SEARCH is INADMISSIBLE as evidence in a criminal proceeding. They can't search for "stolen mag wheels" in your glove box, find weed and arrest you for it - it'll get thrown out in the first hearing on a suppression motion - EVEN WITH A WARRANT. But if you WAIVE YOUR RIGHTS and give PERMISSION TO SEARCH YOUR CAR WITHOUT A WARRANT - ANYTHING THEY FIND IS ARREST-ABLE AND ADMISSIBLE.

Rick

 

There are laws on the books that basically say that receipts can be used to verify the accuracy of log books and must be made available upon request during a specific time frame. They must be kept by the "owner" of the company who has the operating authority the truck is running under. Based on how this comment was worded I can only assume that these receipts were in "plain view" which would make moot any argument about searches.

The only thing a driver can really say "NO" to when it comes to searching the CMV is having his/her personal items searched. Things such as duffel bags, suit cases, personal books, movies, music, computer, etc.

When it comes to searches related to complying with the regs about the operation of the CMV a driver can't really refuse. This can include anything from making sure you have spare fuses to the load being properly secured and manifested.

 

The police cannot search a cmv without a search warrant or probable cause any more than with a personal vehicle. If something is in plain sight then it is fair game as I understand it. Being on the dash could be considered in plain sight.

 

Please cite those specific laws.

 

I just love it when you do that...lol.

 

The answer to your question is in the regs 396.9 which authorizes LEOs to enter a CMV and inspect. If you operate " Not For Hire" you dont have to comply. I dont like it any more than you do, but you have to submit to authority or lose your right to drive a CMV. I have seen some wild things in driver's trucks so if you have something to hide, dont put it in the truck. I had a driver try to cross into Canada with porn mags in his truck and porn on his hard drive, he got a ticket, was denied access into Canada and then had to do 45 days in jail up there, I was pissed because the load was delayed 2 days until I could get another driver under it, all because of some girlie mags. I had another driver that abandoned his truck and when we got it back, his porn had women getting it on with dogs and he had kiddie porn. He had the nerve to call and ask about his "stuff". The LEOs are looking for this kind of thing because some of our fellow drivers are just that low down and sleezy, again I dont like it any more than you do, but you have to submit to authority or lose your right to drive a CMV.

 

396.9 (a) Personnel authorized to perform inspections—Every special agent of the FMCSA (as defined in Appendix B to this sub-chapter) is authorized to enter upon and perform inspections of motor carrier’s vehicles in operation.

Yah, I saw that one. Intentionally VAGUE (as are many FMSCA regs). One would think the definition of "inspection" differs from "search".

Again - the intent of this discussion was to try and determine if there is a FEDERAL LAW that REQUIRES CMV operators to allow an officer to enter and SEARCH the interior of your tractor without getting a WARRANT (if you refuse permission) - or does just the fact that CMV is more tightly regulated than a personal motor vehicle give LEO's the right to search without permission?

Inspect, in my eyes - would mean, verify that the sleeper bunk meets the requirement of the sleeper bunk provision. Verify that safety related controls and items (reflectors, fire extinguisher, spare fuses, service brake actuators, etc.) are present and working.

Probably does NOT mean going though your porn collection - then again - border crossings are an entirely different animal from traffic stops or getting pulled at a coop.

State law research I've done, doesn't seem to indicate that CMV operators have any LESS rights than they would in their POV's. Then again, checking to make sure you don;t have a RADAR DETECTOR in your CMV might be justified, versus it wouldn't be in a POV. I've seen appeals cases that have gone either way - truck was searched against the protest of the operator - evidence thrown out on appeal AND CMV's have higher standards of responsibility and evidence was found to be admissible.

Still doesn't answer the question, can you EXIT YOUR TRUCK - LOCK THE DOORS and tell a LEO - UP YOURS GET A WARRANT like you can in your CAR?

Rick

 

396.9 answered your question, you just dont like the answer. This conversation brought back an incident that you will like the outcome. I had a driver dealing drugs out of the company truck from Lake Park GA up to Charlotte NC. He gets pulled over one night in a small town in south Georgia for crossing the center line. The cops find a pistol and $14000 cash, but no drugs. We suspected him of the dealing but of course never saw it. Safety and Personnel said to fire him and Personnel reported the arrest and pistol on his DAC. His lawyer beat the charges and the DAC report was cleared.