[SickRick]

(b) (2) Emergency conditions. In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency.

This is about the vaguest ****e I have ever seen.

Guidance on the FMCSA site is just as vague:

Question 5: How may a driver utilize the adverse driving conditions exception or the emergency conditions exception as found in §395.1(b), to preclude an hours of service violation?

Guidance: An absolute prerequisite for any such claim must be that the trip involved is one which could normally and reasonably have been completed without a violation and that the unforeseen event occurred after the driver began the trip.

Drivers who are dispatched after the motor carrier has been notified or should have known of adverse driving conditions are not eligible for the two hours additional driving time provided for under §395.1(b), adverse driving conditions. The term “in any emergency” shall not be construed as encompassing such situations as a driver’s desire to get home, shippers’ demands, market declines, shortage of drivers, or mechanical failures.

-------------------

Adverse weather gives you 2 additional hours (not to exceed your 14 and/or 13 hours total driving, after 10 consecutive hours off duty).

"Emergency" lets you complete the run, if you could have done it in the "normal" 11 hours - had you not had an "emergency". So (for example) - a 4 hour trip to the hospital (for an injury that doesn't preclude safely driving) would let you violate both the 11 & 14 hour rules? Or just the 14 hour rule?

WTF actually DOES constitute an "emergency"?

Rick

[SickRick]

C'mon now...

Now of the classadriver.com crack HOS debate team has an answer for this one?

Then again, my driving school instructor didn't either...

Rick

Another example might be; the highway you were on got closed for a major accident, which resulted in you being stuck between exits for 4 or 5 hours (or in the case of South Florida - I-75/Alligator Alley was close due to a fire in the everglades) and you got stuck waiting for the road to re-open so you could MOVE again. Is THAT an "emergency"? Could you "finish the run", regardless of the 14 hour rule - IF - the run could have been finished within the 11/14 if the road had NOT BEEN CLOSED on you?

[golfhobo]

SickRick said:

C'mon now...

None of the classadriver.com crack HOS debate team has an answer for this one?

Yes... I'm sure at least ONE of us does. However, we work for a living and will get back to you.

Then again, my driving school instructor didn't either...

Mine didn't even know what held the brakes back while driving down the road! :hellno:

Another example might be; the highway you were on got closed for a major accident, which resulted in you being stuck between exits for 4 or 5 hours (or in the case of South Florida - I-75/Alligator Alley was close due to a fire in the everglades) and you got stuck waiting for the road to re-open so you could MOVE again. Is THAT an "emergency"?

No, it's not. It IS considered adverse driving conditions, but you may not be able to move except to the nearest safe location if you are over your 11.

Could you "finish the run", regardless of the 14 hour rule - IF - the run could have been finished within the 11/14 if the road had NOT BEEN CLOSED on you?

NO. It is NOT an emergency. And (although I'll have to think and research) I'm not sure your original example was, either.

This is a good topic and question, and I'm SURE it will engender a heated discussion between the Rev and I as we have already disagreed on "road closures" before.

Stay tuned and don't be so impatient!

[golfhobo]

Sickrick said:

"Emergency" lets you complete the run, if you could have done it in the "normal" 11 hours - had you not had an "emergency".

So (for example) - a 4 hour trip to the hospital (for an injury that doesn't preclude safely driving) would let you violate both the 11 & 14 hour rules? Or just the 14 hour rule?

I'm not sure a visit to the hospital as you have defined it, is an emergency. BEFORE you start to drive again, the "emergency" is over and you (and your dispatch) are aware of it. Your HOS MAY not be affected. (but I'm not sure yet.)

I "believe" the spirit of the reg is for emergencies AT HOME with your family or such. (but I could be wrong. Need to check.)

I reserve further comment until I've refreshed my memory on the pertinent regs.

[SickRick]

Figgered GolfHobo woould show up sooner or later...

Um - our instructor (47) has been driving since he was a child (dad was an O/O), has his own trucking company with a fleet of 15 that HE owns (under his own authority) - has been teaching at the county Vo-Tech for 18 years, and has been to school as a youth for diesel/truck mechanics, and is a Fl. CDL Examiner, as well as a FL CDL Examiner TRAINER . Not that he needs ME to defend him - but it's not the "usual" CDL mill.

That reg DOES define what "adverse conditions" are, and in fact you CAN extend your 11 to 13 by the reg - as long as you do not exceed your 14.

There are no real definitions as to what EMERGENCY is, and it IS under a different citation than "adverse conditions". The "interpretation" (that I posted in the OP) kinda says what does NOT qualify - but that would leave a fairly large "grey area" for what DOES...

Rick

[Rev.Vassago]

I believe "emergency" is being defined as a national emergency. Like hurricane relief, or things of that nature. The government would designate it as an emergency, and then the regulation would go into effect.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I "believe" the spirit of the reg is for emergencies AT HOME with your family or such.

Per the reg:

"The term “in any emergency” shall not be construed as encompassing such situations as a driver’s desire to get home, shippers’ demands, market declines, shortage of drivers, or mechanical failures."

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by SickRick

(b) (2) Emergency conditions. In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency.

This is about the vaguest ****e I have ever seen.

Guidance on the FMCSA site is just as vague:

Question 5: How may a driver utilize the adverse driving conditions exception or the emergency conditions exception as found in §395.1(b), to preclude an hours of service violation?

Guidance: An absolute prerequisite for any such claim must be that the trip involved is one which could normally and reasonably have been completed without a violation and that the unforeseen event occurred after the driver began the trip.

Drivers who are dispatched after the motor carrier has been notified or should have known of adverse driving conditions are not eligible for the two hours additional driving time provided for under §395.1(b), adverse driving conditions. The term “in any emergency” shall not be construed as encompassing such situations as a driver’s desire to get home, shippers’ demands, market declines, shortage of drivers, or mechanical failures.

-------------------

Adverse weather gives you 2 additional hours (not to exceed your 14 and/or 13 hours total driving, after 10 consecutive hours off duty).

"Emergency" lets you complete the run, if you could have done it in the "normal" 11 hours - had you not had an "emergency". So (for example) - a 4 hour trip to the hospital (for an injury that doesn't preclude safely driving) would let you violate both the 11 & 14 hour rules? Or just the 14 hour rule?

WTF actually DOES constitute an "emergency"?

Rick

There are several different types of "Emergency" situations, which allows you to complete a trip, without violating the HOS regulations, while extending your actual hours.

One is "Weather". If during the course of the day(or night), you have been driving under clear skies, then towards the end of your driving period, when you are say 45 minutes from your destination, a severe storm pops up, and the authorities are forced to close the road's in the area, due to flash flooding. You would be allowed to resume your trip, once the flash flood conditions subsided, and authorities re-opened the road.

Another would be a major traffic accident, with no detour available, or your involvement in giving first aid. If your trip is more than 50% complete, and you stopped as a "first responder" at the scene of a major traffic accident, to render first aid, you would be allowed to complete the trip, without HOS violation.

Yet another situation, and one that seldom occurs these days, would be a federal, state, county or city Law Enforcement Officer commandeering your truck, for use in a situation where the truck is assisting in a situation, that would otherwise be uncontrollable, without the presence of the truck. In the 60's and 70's this was a fairly common occurrence, especially in "Tornado Alley" and in the mountains, where fire was a threat. Your cargo maybe what is needed, or you may be asked to drop your trailer, and pull a trailer owned by a government agency.

Today most corporation's co-operate to a very large extent with government agency's, like the Forest Service and FEMA, to provide dedicated service. This is the area in which Rev's comment falls.
When a "Disaster Declaration" has been made by the President of the United States, all those truck driver's involved in the response to that "disaster" are given an HOS exemption, that allows them unlimited driving, with no HOS recourse, as well as limited weight regulation relief and minor DOT safety violation allowance. IE; You can operate a truck with a head light out or a cracked windshield, but you would not be allowed to operate a truck with bad brakes or broken frame.
In a disaster declaration each trucking firm involved in the response is usually issued a FEMA ID card now.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

There are several different types of "Emergency" situations, which allows you to complete a trip, without violating the HOS regulations, while extending your actual hours.

One is "Weather". If during the course of the day(or night), you have been driving under clear skies, then towards the end of your driving period, when you are say 45 minutes from your destination, a severe storm pops up, and the authorities are forced to close the road's in the area, due to flash flooding. You would be allowed to resume your trip, once the flash flood conditions subsided, and authorities re-opened the road.

Adverse driving conditions, not weather. And you'd only be able to complete the trip if you are within the 14 hour clock.

Another would be a major traffic accident, with no detour available, or your involvement in giving first aid. If your trip is more than 50% complete, and you stopped as a "first responder" at the scene of a major traffic accident, to render first aid, you would be allowed to complete the trip, without HOS violation.

Only if you are within the 14 hour clock.

[chris1]

Mainly used in linehaul operations when a "run" takes a known time to complete.

[golfhobo]

SickRick said:

Figgered GolfHobo would show up sooner or later...

You figgered right!

Um - our instructor (47) has been driving since he was a child (dad was an O/O), has his own trucking company with a fleet of 15 that HE owns (under his own authority) - has been teaching at the county Vo-Tech for 18 years, and has been to school as a youth for diesel/truck mechanics, and is a Fl. CDL Examiner, as well as a FL CDL Examiner TRAINER . Not that he needs ME to defend him - but it's not the "usual" CDL mill.

I did NOT mean to impugn your instructor. I didn't bother getting to know MINE as well as you did yours, but he was a LONG TIME veteran driver, and the school was qualified as a 3rd party tester in NC. Yes, it WAS a "mill" of sorts (in my mind at least,) but the fact is that most people make mistakes.... or don't always know EVERYTHING about what they are talking about. He made a mistake while following the "material" he was given to teach. I contested him... and won. My point was that DOT officers (like Monty Dial) and teachers and "compliance officers" (like MythBuster) are NOT the final word in every case. It is incumbent on US to question authority and information until such time that WE are satisfied that the information is true and correct.

That reg DOES define what "adverse conditions" are, and in fact you CAN extend your 11 to 13 by the reg - as long as you do not exceed your 14.

That is correct. There is an interesting distinction though in that reg. IF you find that the road is closed ahead of you, and you can pull OFF the road and go into the sleeper, you may count that towards a split break (if that helps you.) However.... IF you are ON THE ROADWAY and the road is closed, you are considered in "control" of your vehicle, ready to move it when NECESSARY, and must therefore remain ON DUTY. If your 14 hour clock expires, you are ONLY allowed to move it past the obstruction and onto the shoulder and then must shut down.

There are no real definitions as to what EMERGENCY is, and it IS under a different citation than "adverse conditions". The "interpretation" (that I posted in the OP) kinda says what does NOT qualify - but that would leave a fairly large "grey area" for what DOES...

You would THINK so.... but, I doubt that the grey area is all that large. :lol:

Chalk this up to another BRILLIANT GS-13 who can't clearly define anything! I believe the MAJOR distinction between the two terms is that an "Emergency" allows you to violate ONLY the 14 hour rule (not the 11.) BOTH require as a base that the trip COULD have been completed without a violation of either rule.

THIS...although I'm not sure what constitutes an "emergency"... is why I will disagree (again) with the REV concerning his contention that it applies to a National emergency that falls under the FEMA exception. It is MY understanding that a FEMA emergency allows a driver to violate/ignore the 14 AND 70 hour rules (if not the 11 hour rule) without regard to whether or not the trip COULD be completed within those rules.

The "emergency" exception as stated requires that the trip COULD have been completed within 11 hours of driving AND 14 hours total. The fact that you now must complete that 11 hours or less of driving in a time OVER the 14 hour limit is the extent of the exception and the difference between IT and the "adverse driving" exception.

As for your "enroute" emergency that takes you to the hospital but doesn't affect your safe operation of the CMV... I STILL believe (right or wrongly) that that would NOT meet the requirement. It is not THAT different from you being "diverted" to the nearest testing facility for a drug test. This time (I mean the UA test) WOULD be considered "on duty," and your HOS would have to include that time. Once your dispatch is aware that you have diverted to a medical facility, the load requirements should be "dispatched" to another driver or notification to your consignee should be made.

Although a driver's "desire" to get home is a common experience in the trucking industry, and would not be considered an exception, a mother DYING is a bit different. Assuming that you COULD have made the trip home (to your yard, etc.,) and made it to her bedside, but you spent 4 hours on line 4 earlier that day at a shipper, (or have taken a 2 hour break) and will exceed your 14 hour rule (but NOT your 11) in an effort to be there, IS (IMHO) the reason for this exception. NOTE that the FMCSA is STILL vigilant in making sure that you don't DRIVE more than 11 hours that day for reasons of public safety.

I MAY be wrong. The regs are NOT clear. The REV made a valid point or two. I do NOT claim that my "interpretation" is absolutely correct. There is not enough evidence or clarification in the regs THIS TIME for me to be that certain. This is MY opinon.

I weighed in. It is not my fault that the regs are not more clear. When "I" become Sec of Transportation, ALL these vagarities will be cleared up. Write your Congressman. VOTE for me! :thumbsup::lol2:

I promise a chicken in every pot and a line 5 on every logsheet! :clap: