Hobo

I missed my regular round this week. I picked up a load of (12 pallets.....5000lbs) plastic sprayer caps like on a windex bottle. They were refused at the receiver and wanted them returned to the vendor.

I let my truck sit from when I was put OOS till Thursday. I hope the DOT Officer drove by a few times and thought "What The Hell" LOL

I'm sitting in the brake check area on Cajon waiting to drop into Chino for a 7am delivery. Deadhead about 20 miles and pick up my usual load back to Des Moines for a Thursday delivery then take the weekend off for kids graduation.

Everything worked out good except I am $83 poorer.

 

No. You are under dispatch when you are put OOS. You can not go off dispatch while you are under OOS, as it is considered "In Custody".

411 for Domino's or a taxi service.

 

First mistake:

Not making sure you had time on the book. You should have done your log and made absolutely sure you had the time to do the run without incident.

Second mistake:

After committing the first mistake, you did not sit at home for a measly 30 minutes or however much time was necessary to get the reset or pickup the needed hours.

Third mistake:

Thinking you could get away with it. If you aren't legal, you don't move, period. (OK, now everybody go nuts listing a myriad of exigencies.....)

The cop was actually a "sweetheart".... I know a couple of guys that would have literally licked his boots for a ticket that small $$ wise.... one of them paid $1015.00 and the other $895.00.... neither was "out of hours"....just forgot to change duty status, in both cases, got caught.....

He was a sweetheart for a second reason.....he actually let you move the truck when you were in an OOS situation, and shut down..... A real ***** who actually enforced the rules would have locked you down right where you were...and if it was a no parking area would have forced the issue to have a wrecker come and pull your truck to a lot.....and you'd pay that bill too.

You got lucky.....

 

Yes he did. The cop may have discretion to allow him to continue that one short block to the receiver, but the receiver has a parking lot. Allowing him to "bump the dock" puts receiver employees in danger. Had one of them slipped and got crushed by the OOS driver bumping the dock, the OFFICER would be liable.


AGAIN with the mystical "15 minutes!" Just because one can FLAG a time less than 15 minutes does NOT mean it is not a duty status change! You have to "account" for all time ON DUTY whether flagged or not.... and the driver could NOT BE ON DUTY while OOS!

It is highly unlikely that the receiver would start to unload him without him "checking in" and delivering his paperwork. That is being ON DUTY NOT DRIVING. You can't DO that while OOS.

And, unless the receiver had docks to spare, and could allow his truck to occupy one during the "sentence," he would have to move it. That is technically DRIVING TIME although most would log it as line 4. Either way.... regardless of whether it is 1 minute, 15 minutes, or an hour.... it is being ON DUTY and would be a violation of the OOS order.

You can't MOVE your truck, WORK on your truck, supervise the unloading of your truck, or do paperwork related to the delivery of goods while under and OOS order.

There is no "magical rule" that allows you to work OR DRIVE for 14 minutes and 59 seconds without it being ON DUTY time.... and a violation of the OOS order.

He COULD, however, sit in the passenger seat, ON the catwalk, or get in and out of his truck all he wants to during that OOS time, because.... as I have repeatedly stated..... this is NOT considered ON DUTY time.

He is not FORCED to stay OUT of his truck.... nor imprisoned in the sleeper... during an OOS order. Because (though not by his employer,) he has been RELIEVED OF DUTY and subpara (4) does NOT apply if one is not ON DUTY.

 

Did the cop allow him to bump the dock, or did he violate the OOS order by doing so?

This is untrue. The driver simply cannot operate a CMV while OOS. He can be on duty (not driving) as much as he wants.

Wrong:

§395.13 Drivers declared out of service.

(d)(2) No driver who has been declared out of service, for failing to prepare a record of duty status, shall operate a commercial motor vehicle until the driver has been off duty for the appropriate number of consecutive hours required by this part and is in compliance with this section.

Wrong.

Wrong.

§395.2 Definitions.

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Wrong again. The only time one can be in or upon a CMV and not record On Duty time is when they:

1. Are using the unladen CMV for personal conveyance, or
2. Are resting in a DOT approved sleeper berth.

Golfhobo, you're batting zero tonight.

 

Rev, this is the biggest bunch of crap you've ever posted on this subject!

Everyone knows that "operating" a CMV includes both driving AND any other safety sensitive function that is considered as "on duty."

An OOS declaration prohibits a driver from being ON DUTY during that time.

This also applies (as I'm sure I could prove if needed) to any violation of the 14 hour rule, the 11 hour rule, etc.

ANY "operation" of the vehicle is considered ON DUTY by the definition reg (not to include sitting on the catwalk or in the passenger area) and therefore would INTERRUPT a full 10 hour OFF DUTY break mandated by the OOS criteria.

Do I need to find the discussion in the regs about the concrete mixers who could "operate" their concrete dump mechanisms without sitting in the driver's seat? They were STILL considered ON DUTY NOT DRIVING as they were "operating" the truck while not "at the controls". This allowed them to not log DRIVING TIME, but STILL required them to log ON DUTY NOT DRIVING.

Point is.... ANY operation of the vechicle or its contents.... ANY duties considered as line 4 time.... are NOT allowed during an OOS order because they interrupt the 10 hours CONSECUTIVE OOS order.

You cannot be OFF DUTY (line 1 or 2) for 10 consecutive hours and be performing ANY "duty" or "safety sensitive function." You cannot even "repeatedly" answer phone calls or qualcomm messages during a 10 hour consecutive OFF DUTY time.... which is the minimum for an OOS order.

I KNOW you don't want to hear it, but AGAIN the "spirit" IF NOT THE LETTER of the regs is clear! A driver who has exceeded the limits of drive time... or the window, OR who has failed to provide proof that he HAS NOT... will be put OOS for a minimum of 10 hours of OFF DUTY TIME to prevent ANY possible occurrence of a SAFETY VIOLATION or danger to the public.

A driver CANNOT be "on duty" in ANY capacity while under an OOS order. A company CANNOT require him to do so. And (I believe) no regulating authority (DOT officer) can violate that order for safety reasons. It is "assumed" that he may not be fully rested, and therefore dangerous.

This is the CRUX of the HOS rules! This is their "raison d'etre!" This is why they have modified the sleeper berth "split."

If a driver violates the "on duty" timeframe rules, or cannot PROVE that he hasn't, he CAN and/or WILL be placed OUT OF SERVICE for a minimum of 10 hours to make SURE that he has the required rest time. He cannot legally LOG that 10 hours consecutive OFF DUTY time if he is doing ANYTHING other than resting.

By "definition" that means he cannot perform ANY task associated with unloading, loading, servicing or moving the vehicle.

Again, by definition in the regs, EVEN "repeatedly" answering his dispatcher would interrupt.... and force a restart of.... his 10 consecutive hours OFF DUTY before he can OPERATE a CMV in ANY aspect of interstate commerce.

And that INCLUDES "bumping a dock" or moving away from one, or ANY "work in the service of" his employer (which includes giving or receiving shipping documents or being in "attendance" during the loading or unloading of the freight.)

Furthermore, while it is entirely possible, though not desired, a driver CAN interrupt his 10 hour break at the instruction of his company under normal circumstances. He would just have to start it all over again (or work around the inconvenience it caused.)

But, as mentioned above, the company CANNOT.... for ANY reason.... cause him to violate an OOS order and the "penalty" of a mandated 10 hours OFF DUTY injunction while OOS.

IF, as it seems, you are trying to tell drivers on this board that they CAN, in fact, perform ANY "duties" other than driving while under an OOS order.... you are not only SADLY mistaken but unwittingly giving false information to the very people who come here for advice.

I am looking for, but have not yet found, a forum for DOT officers where I might pose some of these questions. But, I am fairly sure that THEY cannot violate FMCSA regs either. I'm sure they are given SOME discretion as to where to park the OOS drivers. I've been given some dispensation myself in this regard. But, I am confident that they would not, and COULD not, allow a driver that they are putting OOS to actually "bump a dock" before serving their OOS penalty. The risks are just too high.

And, to answer your first question, it was MY understanding that Scott was allowed by this officer to go ONE BLOCK to the PROPERTY of the receiver/shipper to serve his OOS time. He was NOT allowed (or TOLD by the officer) to "bump the dock" and THEN go OOS!

I reject your uninformed "opinon" that my statements were WRONG. You have NO MORE "authority" than I to make such statements. But, very few believe you anymore anyways! I just wish you'd learn to say that it is YOUR (mistaken) opinion that I am wrong. Why don't you "invoke" your FMCSA guru to settle this one? (as IF he could!)

OOS.... Out of Service.... means mandatory OFF DUTY for 10 consecutive hours (or more.) No line 4 (or 3) time! PERIOD! OFF THE CLOCK! OUT OF BUSINESS! END OF DISCUSSION! :hellno:

 

Once again, you're wrong. If I am doing paperwork at my terminal while my truck is being serviced 20 miles away, I am not "operating" a CMV. I am, however, on duty (not driving). Operating a CMV = driving a CMV. Operating a CMV is not sitting in a warehouse dealing with paperwork.

Wow, golfhobo. That is the biggest post of completely incorrect information I've ever seen you put on this site.

The regs specifically state that one cannot operate a CMV while out of service. The regs in no way, shape, or form, regulate the amount of time you are on duty (not driving) time - ever. Ever ever. I can be on line 4 as much as I want at ANY time I want, and the regs to not control it. There is absolutely no FMCSA regulation that controls on duty (not driving) time, other than to indicate what activities are considered such. It's only when I want to move to line 3 that the regs kick in, and control whether or not I can drive the CMV.

So as I stated, you are completely and utterly wrong. Please just stop trying to dispense your incorrect advice. Thx.