[Rat]

The ONE thing I didn't include is the phrase "be in physical control." I have admitted that I cannot find a definition of this in the regs, and I am not TOTALLY sure what they mean. But, there ARE some regs that MAY shed some light on it. I just can't get around to posting them for having to defend myself against someone who obviously cannot READ or COMPREHEND the regs as

This is something that goes further then FMCSA. The laws are worded slightly different but it basically boils down to.

If you are under the influence and are in a motor vehical and are physically able to move it. Ie key in the ignition or pocket and can get to the controls to physically operate the vehical then you can be sited for actual physical control of a motor vehical while under the influence.

Do a little google search and you will find some good information on this.

It is up to the officer as to if they want to arrest you for it but I personally know one person, a cousin of mine that was asleep int he back seat of his car with the keys on the front seat. He got an actual physical control. Had his liscense suspended for the same period of time it would have been suspended had he been driving the vehical while under the influence.

The only real difference I can see between the comercial motor vehical and personal motor vehical is that the B/A levels are must stiffer when a comercial motor vehical is involved.

Then we have open container laws to contend with. An open container of alcohol in a vehical is against the law in many states if nto all of them. As far as I can see there is no seperation between CMVs and regular MVs.

Maybe install a perm wall between the driving area and the berth and have an outside door installed so you have to physically get out to get to it then you can get away with such things.


But as long as you can easily move from the berth to the driving area then the law is the law. No open cantainers in the berth or driving area, no hopping into the berth while being intoxicated and so on and so forth.

Did you know that in some states you can not carry an open 12 pack box in the driving area of a regular motor vehical? It must be in the trunk or in the pickup box. Heck even a 6 pack that is missing 1 beer is considered an open container in these states.

[golfhobo]

Well, actually, Rev, I was talking to Twilight. HE brought his family into a discussion about drinking in a truck which is PARKED in a truckstop while the driver is OFF DUTY! I just didn't remember ever SEEING them there!

Where I ACTUALLY was going next..... was to see if you were willing to finally admit that you were WRONG! From THERE.... perhaps we could continue with the discussion.

YOU did some "deflecting" of your OWN two posts ago, and I wanted to bring it back to what we were discussing, after FINALLY getting you on the same page about the sleeper being OFF DUTY!

But, I decided to answer Twilight's post while I was skimming the previous page.

I got a phone call while TRYING to figure out YOUR little "deflection post." and you got back before I got done!

[PhuzzyGnu]

Originally Posted by PhuzzyGnu

No alcohol in the truck cab!

And alcohol means liquor/beer/wine . . . Listerine or rubbing alcohol or NyQuil is fine.

ANY blood alcohol quantity, even .001% constitutes a DUI with a commercial license, and you career is over.

The law is 4 hours bottle-to-throttle. I say 8, and preferably 24.

-p.

I just quoted myself. Because I was the first to reply, and I was basically right.

-p.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

YOU did some "deflecting" of your OWN two posts ago, and I wanted to bring it back to what we were discussing, after FINALLY getting you on the same page about the sleeper being OFF DUTY!

The sleeper berth is not logged off duty. The sleeper berth is logged sleeper berth. How many times do I have to say it? :roll:

[BigDiesel]

It certainly appears that it is very important for golfhobo to have alcohol and be able to drink it in his cab.....

This just shows the lack of professionalism he has...

I certainly do not want a so-called " Professionial Driver " like that on the same highways and roads my friends and family traverse...

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

It certainly appears that it is very important for golfhobo to have alcohol and be able to drink it in his cab.....

Even if golfhobo doesn't want alcohol in his cab, he wants to twist the regs to allow others to have it in theirs, which is equally unprofessional.

[golfhobo]

Rev.Vassago said:

Originally Posted by golfhobo

They are saying that a continuous line should be logged on line 1 to show your off duty time EXCEPT for any time spent resting in the sleeper, which you would then log a continuous line on line 2 for! Therefore, your OFF DUTY timeline can zig zag from line one to line 2 and back.

The FIRST example that comes to mind is a 34 hour reset. You go to line one at say 4 p.m. on a friday to start your reset, and stay there while you eat and shower and play games or whatever. THEN.... you "break" that continuous line on line 1 to show time OFF DUTY spent resting in your sleeper from say 11 p.m. to 8 a.m. THEN, you zig back up to line 1 to show that you are still off duty, but no longer sleeping, and you've gone sightseeing! So, you draw a continuous line on line 1, OFF DUTY, EXCEPT for the time you are in the sleeper which the reg CLEARLY states is STILL OFF DUTY time!

Yes, but..... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm sorry.... could you say that a little LOUDER?? I don't think everyone here HEARD you admit that you were wrong! :lol: :lol:

we aren't talking about getting shitfaced outside of the truck - we are talking about drinking inside a CMV. The regs clearly state that you are logging one of two things while inside a CMV - on duty, or sleeper berth.

I don't believe so. JUST like you misunderstood the OFF DUTY status of the sleeper, you have misunderstood the ON DUTY reg.

The only exception they have provided for this is when you are using the CMV for personal conveyance, at which point you are allowed to log off duty, but only if you are using it for personal conveyance (driving to a motel while unladen, etc.).

NO, that's NOT what they state, NOR the intention of the reg. The "exception" is for CARRYING alcohol in the cab of a CMV "IN OPERATION." You are allowed to log OFF DUTY, because you ARE off duty, and THIS (as opposed to being ON DUTY) is what allows you to actually be OPERATING a CMV with alcohol on board. What they DON'T want, is a laden CMV being OPERATED on the highways by a driver who is ON DUTY, with alcohol in the truck, whether he is actually drinking it or not!

You earlier pointed out this wording. Now, I'll point it back at ya! The word is CARRYING..... not "POSSESSING." :roll: I'm SURE they could have chosen the right word..... and, in fact, DID! They are not prohibiting you from POSSESSING alcohol in a truck that is NOT IN OPERATION. They are prohibiting you from CARRYING it down the road while IN operation, UNLESS you meet the exemption of being UNLADEN and OFF DUTY.

If you are in the cab, and you aren't using the vehicle for personal conveyance, you are on duty. The regs are very clear on this. That is my whole point, which you claimed you disagreed with. I am still waiting for you to cite a regulation that supports your statement.

And THIS is the other reg that you are reading incorrectly, with whatever English skills allowed you to misinterpret the OFF DUTY status of the sleeper!

What they are saying here is that if you are in the cab.... AND OPERATING the CMV, and you don't fit the exemption for being unladen and personal conveyance, and you are CARRYING alcohol down the road.... you are in violation! So, the "exemption" is for one who is OPERATING the CMV down the road, but is not ON DUTY. There is no NEED to "exempt" someone who is OFF DUTY and NOT OPERATING the CMV!

Here's the reg: 395.2 Hours of Service / Definitions

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

You MIGHT note that there is NO DEFINITION in THIS part or any other of what constitutes OFF DUTY time. That is because they felt this first sentence CLEARLY defined the difference, and didn't realize so many drivers couldn't understand that OFF DUTY means, "relieved of work and all responsibilities." :roll:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, [read truckstop or pickle park] waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

Now, assuming you are a company driver, and are dispatched by Qualcom, WHERE do you think this waiting would be done? ON the CMV, of course, and by definition, if you are NOT WAITING to be dispatched, and have been ROD by your employer, you are NOT "ON DUTY" regardless of where your butt is sitting! They CLEARLY do not intend for you to stand outside in the rain or heat, JUST because you've been ROD, and therefore, having BEEN ROD, you are NOT considered to be ON DUTY JUST because you happen to be on their property or IN THEIR PROPERTY!

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time; It might be a good idea if you checked this one out. It SPECIFICALLY says all time at the controls of a CMV IN OPERATION!

This is self-explanatory.

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Clearly THIS is the phrase in question! Now... FIRST go back to the definition of ON DUTY as being any time AFTER you come on duty, and BEFORE you are ROD! Then.... note the wording of "other than driving time." The REASON for this wording is to identify which LINE you are on! IF and again I say..... IF you are "on duty" (WITHIN your 14 hour duty window) and not ROD, any time spent on the CMV that is NOT DRIVING time (line 3) or sleeper berth time (line 2) WOULD be considered ON DUTY (not driving) time.... line 4. But, you MUST, by definition of ON DUTY TIME, NOT be considered ROD for this to have relevance! NOTE that these definitions are found in the section concerning HOS and how / where to LOG THEM! [NOT the nonexistent section on Hours of ROD and how you can SPEND them!]

Then we have the exception to this, which is the one or two hour periods within your duty window wherein you are ROD by your company, and CAN log "off duty." This means you can go get a Mickey D's and EAT it in your CAB and STILL be ROD and log it as OFF DUTY! ..... as LONG as the CMV is NOT IN OPERATION, you can be ROD ...AND "at the controls" without it being considered ON DUTY!

(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;

I included this one because it clearly shows that you are ON DUTY while on a shipper/consignee's property IF you are helping in the process, ATTENDING the vehicle while being processed, or in readiness to move the vehicle. Even HERE.... it is possible to be in the sleeper (and log it that way) IF you have been told "it will be a few hours.... take a nap and we'll wake you when we need you." But, in this case, you have NOT been ROD, so ALL time NOT spent in the sleeper would be line 4 (on duty not driving) but EVEN if you were at the controls, it would NOT be driving time, because it is NOT "in operation."

(6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle;

I included this one because it shows that you are STILL "on duty" within your duty tour window until the truck is fixed and you can park it and be ROD! EVEN the sleeper is not mentioned here. However..... IF you are disabled on the side of the road, and have your triangles out, and no help can be forthcoming for over 10 hours, your company COULD ROD you and you would NOT have to be on duty!

But, the OVERLYING message here is this. The definitions of ON DUTY time are contingent on you BEING "on duty!" BEING in the "duty window" BETWEEN the time you come on duty AFTER 10 hours off, and the time you go OFF DUTY and/or are ROD by your company.

The FMCSA does NOT regulate your OFF DUTY time OTHER than to specify the size of a sleeper (so that you can't claim an 8 hour sleeper break by stretching out on the seat of your DAY cab,) and makes the ONE exception to the prohibition against CARRYING alcohol in a moving truck to allow for someone who is ROD and on his way to a safe shutdown for the night.

Other than that, they make it CLEAR that you are free to pursue activities of YOUR own choosing (the closest they will EVER come to saying "have a drink,") when you are OFF DUTY, and make it perfectly clear that they do NOT regulate your choice of "resting places" when OFF DUTY unless you chose to specify sleeper berth.

SOME companies may want to stick their nose up your butt when you are OFF DUTY..... but, the government KNOWS that is unconstitutional!

Y'all do what you want! I don't care! But, I have dealt with government WORKPLACE regulations for over 30 years of my life, and I stand by my interpretations! What a specific LEO might want to do about "personal control" is up to him. But, I have NEVER seen one come into a truckstop and start ROUSTING drivers from their sleepers to see if they are drinking! :roll:

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Then we have the exception to this, which is the one or two hour periods within your duty window wherein you are ROD by your company, and CAN log "off duty." This means you can go get a Mickey D's and EAT it in your CAB and STILL be ROD and log it as OFF DUTY! ..... as LONG as the CMV is NOT IN OPERATION, you can be ROD ...AND "at the controls" without it being considered ON DUTY!

No, the regulation you just quoted states specifically that any time in or upon a CMV that isn't sleeper berth time is On Duty time. Now you want to pretend that it isn't.

Why don't you stop trying to pretend that you know how to interpret the regs, because it is quite clear you don't. You are pretending you are psychic, and know what the intent was when the regs were written (which you have done in the past as well, and failed just as miserably at).

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

The sleeper berth is not logged off duty. The sleeper berth is logged sleeper berth. How many times do I have to say it? :roll:

Now, I'm SURE you are just joking! I never SAID it was LOGGED as "off duty" I said it was PART of being OFF DUTY. Both lines 1 and 2 are considered OFF DUTY. EVEN if you log only 4 hours in the sleeper, it is OFF DUTY as concerns your 70 rule!

BigDiesel said:

It certainly appears that it is very important for golfhobo to have alcohol and be able to drink it in his cab.....

This just shows the lack of professionalism he has...

I certainly do not want a so-called " Professionial Driver " like that on the same highways and roads my friends and family traverse...

And it is more than clear that YOU can't read, comprehend OR understand anything anyone says in English! In almost 3 years on the road, I have had beer in my truck about 3 times! The last time, I was the driver, and the vehicle was NOT IN OPERATION, and the beer was my co-driver's. I didn't LOG myself as "on duty," but I CONSIDERED myself as so! Just when we thought we'd be laid over for a SECOND night, we got a dispatch to move. We threw all the beer out! Unopened and not drank!

You have NO IDEA how "professional" I am while on the road! You probably couldn't even understand the CONCEPT of how professional I am while on the road!

You are a narcissist who thinks no other driver out here could possibly be better at this than you! You are WORSE than pathetic. I would tell you HOW much worse, but I don't want this thread locked!

I first joined this board while still in CDL school, and was immediately shocked at how many drivers didn't understand the regs, particularly where it concerned logging. I have strayed at times into political and religious discussions for the FUN of it, but my main effort has ALWAYS been on clarifying misconceptions about the regs. I consider this to be a "professional" service to my friends and fellow drivers here.

WHAT, by the way, have YOU offered? :shock: :roll:

You are a CB Rambo with a keyboard! Everyone HERE knows what you ARE and what you are ABOUT! Your lack of "professionalism" on this board is probably ONLY superceded by your lack of it on the road!

Your "friends and family" have nothing to fear from me, unless they learned to DRIVE from YOU!


The REV said:

Even if golfhobo doesn't want alcohol in his cab, he wants to twist the regs to allow others to have it in theirs, which is equally unprofessional.

I appreciate your UNDERHANDED complement, Rev! But, you are wrong (again.) I have no desire to TWIST any regs. IF you can cite ONE reg that says CDL drivers are not allowed to consume alcohol while out on the road, either in the truck or not (while OFF DUTY,) and make me BELIEVE it, I will gladly take that stand! Problem is.... it would be the SIMPLEST of all regs for them to make..... but, they HAVEN'T!!

I am AGAINST drivers driving under the influence of ANYTHING! I am against drivers driving over hours and SLEEPY. I am against drivers driving while DISTRACTED by cellphones or GPS's or laptops! I am even against drivers being distracted by loud TUNES! I am against ANY driver who does not take his job seriously and professionally!

Foremost of all, I am against drivers who are STOOPID! (and "wusses!".... can't forget them!) :lol:

But, the only thing worse that a STUPID driver, is one who is misinformed or LED by one who IS! :roll:

To ME.... THAT is the height of "unprofessionalism!" I don't believe I have ever, nor would I wish NOW to, question YOUR professionalism. I would LIKE, but have grown used to not receiving, the SAME "professional" attitude and treatment from YOU!

So.... what does that say about YOU? :roll:

Just sayin' :wink:

[HWD]

How about this:

Leave the alcohol at home.

It's that simple. The closest alcohol ever came to my cab was when it was in the trailer, being delivered to others to consume.

I guarantee you that if a cop saw it he would err on the side of hauling you in and letting you explain it to the judge. With people so anal and psyched about EVERY LITTLE DAMN THING nowadays, you are guaranteed to lose the argument AND your job.

I read a post on here not long ago about a guy who said his employer (I think it was Marten) forbid alcohol in his hotel room!

If you want to risk it, well, whatever. Me, I say...

Leave the alcohol at home.

Maybe the road will be a wee bit safer for my wife, my kids, and all of your families.