[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Useless

[ quote="Dawn"][ quote="tndieselgrl"][ quote="Dawn"] [ quote="Rev.Vassago"][ quote="Dawn"]

Is it just me???..... or are others out there having a bloody difficult time keeping track of who said what to whom, here??

No - it's pretty easy. Dawn is stating that you can flag a pre trip inspection, because it isn't as important as the post trip inspection. Her reasoning behind this is because the company she works for has never been cited during an audit for it.

The problem with that is the fact that DOT regularily misses things - even on an audit. That doesn't change the fact that the FMCSA regs contradict her, and that there is NO WAY that a pre trip inspection can be done in less than 15 minutes.

The thing I would love to know is why the company she works for is being audited so much by DOT. They usually only perform such frequent audits on carriers with less than satisfactory ratings.

[traveler15301]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

The thing I would love to know is why the company she works for is being audited so much by DOT. They usually only perform such frequent audits on carriers with less than satisfactory ratings.

Hmmmmm.............

[Dawn]

Rev: I believe I said if you CAN do a pre-trip in less than 15 minutes you can flag it (normally I would say 7.5 minutes, but I am using your words to satisfy you!). I never claimed every driver could, but you do have the drivers that move faster than you and could do one in less than 15 minutes.

Here you go: If you do a thorough inspection at the end of the day, why in the heck do you need to turn around and do a through inspection at the beginning of the day? Now if the "DRIVER" does the thorough inspection at the end of the day and he/she finds something wrong hmm they get it in the shop and either 1) go to their sleeper while it is being repaired or (doubt full, but if happens great) 2) go to a hotel and tell the shop or ask when it will be done, the latest 10 hours later! hmm driver has their 10 hour break and their on-duty time to get the truck repaired did NOT interfere with their 14 hour clock.
Now downfall is the driver does their thorough inspection (pre-trip) before they take off (after they took @ least a 10 hour break) he finds something wrong (major) and he just got off the 10 hour break (which the truck could have been worked on during the 10 hour break) and see's something major wrong now he just took a 10 hour break PLUS he/she will be down the remaining time while the truck/trailer is getting repaired.
To my suggestion (which is what I was doing for the FAVOR of a driver) is telling drivers if you do a thorough inspection at the end of your day (which might be day or night, depends on when you like to drive) it SAVES YOU time!

DOT normally looks for one of the 2 to be on line 4! If you take the 14 hour rule about being on line past your 14 hour, you can be on line 4 all you want past your 14 hour!!! Therefore all you are affecting is your 70 hour rule if doing the post-trip thoroughly (which you would eat up your 70 hour anyhow if it was your pre)

There is your tip: If you chose not to take the tip that is fine with me; again I am here to help you out with the inside scoop not just the interpretation!

Again my drivers have been doing it this way for 6 years and I HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH a driver being fined or warned!

so that narrows Rev's issue's if you check all the pre-trip requirements at night and sign off everything is ok before you leave that is all DOT wants! They want YOU as a driver to feel safe the equipment you are driving is safe! If it isn't the COMPANY is required to make sure it is safe!

So I am here for the driver and I am here for the company; hmm why would I lead you wrong? I make no profit from me being here? I am telling you what you can do to save your 14 hour clock. Now if you can't do the simple requirements of a pre-trip (which I posted in the beginning, my first post to this post, I believe) in less than 15 minutes; then you should log how long it took you! NO ONE! can tell you how long it takes YOU to do something! Just make sure YOU can do it in that amount of time!
If DOT gives you a hassle explain I did my thorough inspection last night/day (post-trip) so if I needed repairs I could get it in the shop and in the morning I walked around and did what was required of my pre-trip.

Rev: You aren't wrong, but you aren't using the brain for the drivers case! He/she benefits by doing the thorough inspection at the end of the day (which might be day or night, again depends on the driver).

If DOT stopped you and they found nothing wrong with the tractor/trailer do you think they would write you up for not logging line 4 for pre-trip when in deed you logged a line 4 for post-trip, but you never went anywhere after your post-trip? Many drivers say I can't do my post-trip at night, but what about the night drivers stopping during the day? They would be doing their pre-trip during the night time and can't see? hmm. Drivers are not on a 8:00 to 5:00 schedule!
That is all I have to say about the pre & post. Again you must follow what your company says, but remember doing a thorough inspection at the end of your day will save YOU time in the long run!


Rev: Since you picked on me about spelling errors in the beginning maybe you should do "SPELL CHECK" yourself! Normally I over look things like that, but he picked on me about a spelling error so you know if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. It goes to show you, you are not even perfect like you think you are! TEE HEE!

Originally Posted by Dawn

Rev: I believe I said if you CAN do a pre-trip in less than 15 minutes you can flag it (normally I would say 7.5 minutes, but I am using your words to satisfy you!). I never claimed every driver could, but you do have the drivers that move faster than you and could do one in less than 15 minutes.

Here you go: If you do a thorough inspection at the end of the day, why in the heck do you need to turn around and do a through inspection at the beginning of the day? Now if the "DRIVER" does the thorough inspection at the end of the day and he/she finds something wrong hmm they get it in the shop and either 1) go to their sleeper while it is being repaired or (doubt full, but if happens great) 2) go to a hotel and tell the shop or ask when it will be done, the latest 10 hours later! hmm driver has their 10 hour break and their on-duty time to get the truck repaired did NOT interfere with their 14 hour clock.
Now downfall is the driver does their thorough inspection (pre-trip) before they take off (after they took @ least a 10 hour break) he finds something wrong (major) and he just got off the 10 hour break (which the truck could have been worked on during the 10 hour break) and see's something major wrong now he just took a 10 hour break PLUS he/she will be down the remaining time while the truck/trailer is getting repaired.
To my suggestion (which is what I was doing for the FAVOR of a driver) is telling drivers if you do a thorough inspection at the end of your day (which might be day or night, depends on when you like to drive) it SAVES YOU time!

DOT normally looks for one of the 2 to be on line 4! If you take the 14 hour rule about being on line past your 14 hour, you can be on line 4 all you want past your 14 hour!!! Therefore all you are affecting is your 70 hour rule if doing the post-trip thoroughly (which you would eat up your 70 hour anyhow if it was your pre)

There is your tip: If you chose not to take the tip that is fine with me; again I am here to help you out with the inside scoop not just the interpretation!

Again my drivers have been doing it this way for 6 years and I HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH a driver being fined or warned!

so that narrows Rev's issue's if you check all the pre-trip requirements at night and sign off everything is ok before you leave that is all DOT wants! They want YOU as a driver to feel safe the equipment you are driving is safe! If it isn't the COMPANY is required to make sure it is safe!

So I am here for the driver and I am here for the company; hmm why would I lead you wrong? I make no profit from me being here? I am telling you what you can do to save your 14 hour clock. Now if you can't do the simple requirements of a pre-trip (which I posted in the beginning, my first post to this post, I believe) in less than 15 minutes; then you should log how long it took you! NO ONE! can tell you how long it takes YOU to do something! Just make sure YOU can do it in that amount of time!
If DOT gives you a hassle explain I did my thorough inspection last night/day (post-trip) so if I needed repairs I could get it in the shop and in the morning I walked around and did what was required of my pre-trip.

Rev: You aren't wrong, but you aren't using the brain for the drivers case! He/she benefits by doing the thorough inspection at the end of the day (which might be day or night, again depends on the driver).

If DOT stopped you and they found nothing wrong with the tractor/trailer do you think they would write you up for not logging line 4 for pre-trip when in deed you logged a line 4 for post-trip, but you never went anywhere after your post-trip? Many drivers say I can't do my post-trip at night, but what about the night drivers stopping during the day? They would be doing their pre-trip during the night time and can't see? hmm. Drivers are not on a 8:00 to 5:00 schedule!
That is all I have to say about the pre & post. Again you must follow what your company says, but remember doing a thorough inspection at the end of your day will save YOU time in the long run!


Rev: Since you picked on me about spelling errors in the beginning maybe you should do "SPELL CHECK" yourself! Normally I over look things like that, but he picked on me about a spelling error so you know if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. It goes to show you, you are not even perfect like you think you are! TEE HEE!

I wonder what our resident " rules genius " Safersys rating is... from reading here it appears that " the expert " has to endure many DOT audits. :roll: :roll: :roll:

(post not directed to the Rev.)

[yoopr]

but you do have the drivers that move faster than you and could do one in less than 15 minutes.

BS-You can't do a THOROUGH Inspection under 15 minutes.

[kc0iv]

Dawn said:

DOT normally looks for one of the 2 to be on line 4!

Dawn you are wrong. D.O.T. expects BOTH inspections to be on line 4. While there is no time limit per se for EITHER they must be shown. Even a 30 second inspection MUST be shown. That flag must be shown with such items as when, where, and the amount of time duration.

Dawn said:

so that narrows Rev's issue's if you check all the pre-trip requirements at night and sign off everything is ok before you leave that is all DOT wants! They want YOU as a driver to feel safe the equipment you are driving is safe! If it isn't the COMPANY is required to make sure it is safe!

NO Dawn what D.O.T. want is a safe unit operating on the streets & highways. That is why they require two inspections one pre and one post.

Many items can fail between the time you did the post inspection and the pre inspection. Such items like air lines, muffler leaks, leaking tire(s), and the list can go on and on.

So your concept fails the REAL reason behind having two inspections.

Dawn said:

So I am here for the driver and I am here for the company; hmm why would I lead you wrong? I make no profit from me being here? I am telling you what you can do to save your 14 hour clock. Now if you can't do the simple requirements of a pre-trip (which I posted in the beginning, my first post to this post, I believe) in less than 15 minutes; then you should log how long it took you! NO ONE! can tell you how long it takes YOU to do something! Just make sure YOU can do it in that amount of time!

If DOT gives you a hassle explain I did my thorough inspection last night/day (post-trip) so if I needed repairs I could get it in the shop and in the morning I walked around and did what was required of my pre-trip.

Dawn you are not going to save any clock time. Well I guess if you are setting at at the door of the shop you might save some. But how many times is that going to happen? In the real world you are going to start that clock when you go it get the unit repaired. You are going to drive to the shop and tell the shop what is wrong. Both of which requires you to be line 3 and line 4.

What I said before still stands. D.O.T. wants a safe truck all the time. D.O.T. might cut you some slack many inspectors won't. As an example -- You may have check the glad -hands in both the post and pre inspections and they were good to go. But when that D.O.T. inspector does the inspection he/she finds a leak he/she can write you up and put you out-of-service. Can it happen? -- YES It happened to me. Or how about that broken spring?

Dawn said:

If DOT stopped you and they found nothing wrong with the tractor/trailer do you think they would write you up for not logging line 4 for pre-trip when in deed you logged a line 4 for post-trip, but you never went anywhere after your post-trip?

The question is -- Can they write you up? YES If you don't show a pre-trip they can write you up.

Dawn said:

...but remember doing a thorough inspection at the end of your day will save YOU time in the long run!

If you want to be a safe driver you will do both a post trip and pre trip inspection. To do so will require line 4 entry for both. Which will cause the clock to be started.

As many have said you can not do a inspection in less than 15 minutes and really even 15 minutes isn't long enough.

Dawn why don't you go out to the shop sometime with a inspection check-list and do a complete inspection and tell us how long it takes. Just be sure to wear something you don't mind getting dirty. I think once you do an inspection you will see why you can't do it in the time frame you think.

kc0iv

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Dawn

Rev: I believe I said if you CAN do a pre-trip in less than 15 minutes you can flag it (normally I would say 7.5 minutes, but I am using your words to satisfy you!). I never claimed every driver could, but you do have the drivers that move faster than you and could do one in less than 15 minutes.

No, you can't. It is physically impossible to check all the items required in a pre-trip inspection in less than 15 minutes.

Here you go: If you do a thorough inspection at the end of the day, why in the heck do you need to turn around and do a through inspection at the beginning of the day?

Easy. Because the FMCSA regulations REQUIRE it.

Now downfall is the driver does their thorough inspection (pre-trip) before they take off (after they took @ least a 10 hour break) he finds something wrong (major) and he just got off the 10 hour break (which the truck could have been worked on during the 10 hour break) and see's something major wrong now he just took a 10 hour break PLUS he/she will be down the remaining time while the truck/trailer is getting repaired.

This is where you just don't comprehend. BOTH inspections are required, as the FMCSA rule states. You cannot brush over one, and "make it up" on the other. In the REAL WORLD, things can (and do) happen to a truck while it is sitting. I have had air compressors break overnight, when nobody touched the truck. I've had oil leaks occur when a truck is idling overnight. There is a reason that DOT requires an inspection before the truck is operated, and there is a reason DOT requires an inspection after the truck is stopped for the day.

To my suggestion (which is what I was doing for the FAVOR of a driver) is telling drivers if you do a thorough inspection at the end of your day (which might be day or night, depends on when you like to drive) it SAVES YOU time!

No, it doesn't. Both inspections should be done as the FMCSA rules state.

DOT normally looks for one of the 2 to be on line 4! If you take the 14 hour rule about being on line past your 14 hour, you can be on line 4 all you want past your 14 hour!!! Therefore all you are affecting is your 70 hour rule if doing the post-trip thoroughly (which you would eat up your 70 hour anyhow if it was your pre)

Skimming inspections is no way to "save time" on your 14 hour clock, or your 70 hour clock.

Again my drivers have been doing it this way for 6 years and I HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH a driver being fined or warned!

By that logic, then if I don't get fined or warned for speeding, then it must be okay. :roll:

so that narrows Rev's issue's if you check all the pre-trip requirements at night and sign off everything is ok before you leave that is all DOT wants!

The FMCSA rules state otherwise.

So I am here for the driver and I am here for the company; hmm why would I lead you wrong? I make no profit from me being here? I am telling you what you can do to save your 14 hour clock. Now if you can't do the simple requirements of a pre-trip (which I posted in the beginning, my first post to this post, I believe) in less than 15 minutes; then you should log how long it took you!

A correct pre-trip is not simple. Let's look at it, shall we?

Here's what you say the pre-trip should consist of:

Originally Posted by Dawn

§392.7 Equipment, inspection and use.
No commercial motor vehicle shall be driven unless the driver is satisfied that the following parts and accessories are in good working order, nor shall any driver fail to use or make use of such parts and accessories when and as needed:
Service brakes, including trailer brake connections.

Parking (hand) brake.
Steering mechanism.
Lighting devices and reflectors.
Tires.
Horn.
Windshield wiper or wipers.
Rear-vision mirror or mirrors.
Coupling devices.

§396.13 Driver inspection.
Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:
(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;
(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and
(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.

But that is only half the pre-trip. Here's what you skipped over:

§383.113 Required skills.

(c) Air brake skills. Except as provided in §383.95, all applicants shall demonstrate the following skills with respect to inspection and operation of air brakes:

(c)(1) Pre-trip inspection skills. Applicants shall demonstrate the skills necessary to conduct a pre-trip inspection which includes the ability to:

(c)(1)(i) Locate and verbally identify air brake operating controls and monitoring devices;

(c)(1)(ii) Determine the motor vehicle's brake system condition for proper adjustments and that air system connections between motor vehicles have been properly made and secured;

(c)(1)(iii) Inspect the low pressure warning device(s) to ensure that they will activate in emergency situations;

(c)(1)(iv) Ascertain, with the engine running, that the system maintains an adequate supply of compressed air;

(c)(1)(v) Determine that required minimum air pressure build up time is within acceptable limits and that required alarms and emergency devices automatically deactivate at the proper pressure level; and

(c)(1)(vi) Operationally check the brake system for proper performance.

If DOT gives you a hassle explain I did my thorough inspection last night/day (post-trip) so if I needed repairs I could get it in the shop and in the morning I walked around and did what was required of my pre-trip.

That is a stupid thing to tell drivers to do - admit they didn't do a thorough pre-trip inspection. :roll:

Rev: You aren't wrong, but you aren't using the brain for the drivers case! He/she benefits by doing the thorough inspection at the end of the day (which might be day or night, again depends on the driver).

No, they benefit by doing BOTH the way the law states, and not trying to save 15 minutes, that could likely end up biting them in the butt later.

If DOT stopped you and they found nothing wrong with the tractor/trailer do you think they would write you up for not logging line 4 for pre-trip when in deed you logged a line 4 for post-trip, but you never went anywhere after your post-trip?

They might, they might not. But that doesn't change the fact that a pre-trip inspection is required, and is required to be logged.

Rev: Since you picked on me about spelling errors in the beginning maybe you should do "SPELL CHECK" yourself! Normally I over look things like that, but he picked on me about a spelling error so you know if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. It goes to show you, you are not even perfect like you think you are! TEE HEE!

Show me where I made a spelling error. :roll:

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Dawn

Rev: I believe I said if you CAN do a pre-trip in less than 15 minutes you can flag it (normally I would say 7.5 minutes, but I am using your words to satisfy you!). I never claimed every driver could, but you do have the drivers that move faster than you and could do one in less than 15 minutes.

Show me a driver who does a pre-trip in less than 15mins., and I'll show you a driver who should'nt be driving a big truck; sad part is, there are all too many of them out there. I don't care how fast you move, less than 15mins. is not enough time to do a thorough pre=trip, and nothing less than a thorough pre-trip should be considered to be acceptable!!

7.5 mins. is nothing more than a sloppy pre-trip; not to mention an open invitation to get busted behind a chicken house!! :evil:

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by Useless

Show me a driver who does a pre-trip in less than 15mins., and I'll show you a driver who should'nt be driving a big truck; sad part is, there are all too many of them out there. I don't care how fast you move, less than 15mins. is not enough time to do a thorough pre=trip, and nothing less than a thorough pre-trip should be considered to be acceptable!!

7.5 mins. is nothing more than a sloppy pre-trip; not to mention an open invitation to get busted behind a chicken house!! :evil:

OK I will show you a driver: Come on up to Indiana and well send me a message when you are almost here and I will schedule one! Heck maybe you will even get lucky and a DOT officer (that comes in regularly to visit) will come out with us! :lol:

[Dawn]

Originally Posted by Useless

Show me a driver who does a pre-trip in less than 15mins., and I'll show you a driver who should'nt be driving a big truck; sad part is, there are all too many of them out there. I don't care how fast you move, less than 15mins. is not enough time to do a thorough pre=trip, and nothing less than a thorough pre-trip should be considered to be acceptable!!

7.5 mins. is nothing more than a sloppy pre-trip; not to mention an open invitation to get busted behind a chicken house!! :evil:

Heck maybe I can get a driver in Laredo or Waxahachie to do this??? How close is this to you? I don't have my mile maker here at home.