[Myth_Buster]

Fozzy, perhaps you don't follow the discussion:

jiptwoo

You can just flag your pretrip, not using any minutes, then you can do your inspection anytime later. I always combined it with loading or unloading, 15 min. only.# 2 - No, one 15 min. inspection in 24 hrs. is all that's required. I have been doted many times and all I show is a 15 min inspection whether it's during loading, unloading, or during fuel, one line drawn down for 15 min , and that's it. Everything else I just flag, and have never had a ticket on my logs. Wasting 15 minutes for fueling, loading, unloading is something the personal companies require, but the only thing in the reg's is one 15 min. inspection in a 24 hr. period.

The topic floated to several issues long before I showed up. I am offering advice based on experience. The FMCSR is very closely intertwined and one subject often affects another.

Be safe.

[yoopr]

You used to have to Log Tire Checks while hauling HazMat every 2 hours but I believe they got rid of that a few years ago.
The Feds determined that a truck stopping every couple of Hours to do a Tire Check while hauling hazmat was opening another opportunity for Terrorists to hijack the load.

[Myth_Buster]

yoopr

You used to have to Log Tire Checks while hauling HazMat every 2 hours but I believe they got rid of that a few years ago.
The Feds determined that a truck stopping every couple of Hours to do a Tire Check while hauling hazmat was opening another opportunity for Terrorists to hijack the load.

They did. However, it was added into cargo securement under Part 392:

? 392.9 Inspection of cargo, cargo securement devices and systems.


(a) General. A driver may not operate a commercial motor vehicle and a motor carrier may not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle unless-

(a)(1) The commercial motor vehicle's cargo is properly distributed and adequately secured as specified in ?? 393.100 through 393.142 of this subchapter.

(a)(2) The commercial motor vehicle's tailgate, tailboard, doors, tarpaulins, spare tire and other equipment used in its operation, and the means of fastening the commercial motor vehicle's cargo, are secured; and

(a)(3) The commercial motor vehicle's cargo or any other object does not obscure the driver's view ahead or to the right or left sides (except for drivers of self-steer dollies), interfere with the free movement of his/her arms or legs, prevent his/her free and ready access to accessories required for emergencies, or prevent the free and ready exit of any person from the commercial motor vehicle's cab or driver's compartment.

(b) Drivers of trucks and truck tractors. Except as provided in paragraph (b)(4) of this section, the driver of a truck or truck tractor must-

(b)(1) Assure himself/herself that the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section have been complied with before he/she drives that commercial motor vehicle;

(b)(2) Inspect the cargo and the devices used to secure the cargo within the first 50 miles after beginning a trip and cause any adjustments to be made to the cargo or load securement devices as necessary, including adding more securement devices, to ensure that cargo cannot shift on or within, or fall from the commercial motor vehicle; and

(b)(3) Reexamine the commercial motor vehicle's cargo and its load securement devices during the course of transportation and make any necessary adjustment to the cargo or load securement devices, including adding more securement devices, to ensure that cargo cannot shift on or within, or fall from, the commercial motor vehicle. Reexamination and any necessary adjustments must be made whenever -

(b)(3)(i) The driver makes a change of his/her duty status; or

(b)(3)(ii) The commercial motor vehicle has been driven for 3 hours; or

(b)(3)(iii) The commercial motor vehicle has been driven for 150 miles, whichever occurs first.

(b)(4) The rules in this paragraph (b) do not apply to the driver of a sealed commercial motor vehicle who has been ordered not to open it to inspect its cargo or to the driver of a commercial motor vehicle that has been loaded in a manner that makes inspection of its cargo impracticable.

Be safe.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Myth_Buster

That means as soon as the driver stops and he/she is no longer driving the location must be flagged with the city/state. If a driver is no longer driving, i.e. stopping for fuel, to take a break, etc. they are either off-duty, in the sleeper berth, or on-duty not driving.

Your point?

Both sections state the vehicle shall not be driven or driving why doesn?t Part 392 deal with pre-trip? The sections compliment one another, Part 396 addresses inspecting the vehicle before it is operated Part 392 addresses at any time.

?396.13 Driver inspection.

Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:

(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;

(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and

(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.

?396.13 specifically deals with the log book requirements, while 396 does not.

Sorry but drivers have been prosecuted for issues regarding vehicle condition. Regardless of how you want to phrase it if a driver violates Part 396.7 can be prosecuted:

Cite one case where the driver was prosecuted for defects to the equipment, and where it was not a prosecution for the RESULTS of defective equipment.

But if a driver has failed to log all stops then the driver is in violation per 395.8 and if the driver has not performed the necessary inspections in-accordance-with Part 392 and is operating a vehicle in violation of Part 396.7 the driver can be prosecuted.

Nope. You just don't get it.

Again I disagree; vehicle condition is a driver?s responsibility. Vehicle condition is tied to maintenance. If a driver operates an unsafe vehicle and kills someone the charge can be changed from manslaughter to 2nd degree murder. Doubt that, look at the driver who had brakes out of adjustment and killed some passengers in a bus on I-90 near Hampshire.

I read that entire article, and saw NOWHERE where the driver was even charged with anything. In fact, I read several other articles related to that crash, and it said the driver had a clean record, and was not charged.

Did they change the spelling of expert? Seems to me I said I was knowledgeable of the regulations.

I disagree with that assesment, as I think others here do also.

Besides where are your credentials?

I'm not the one passing myself off as the expert.

This is the Internet and an open forum, people can make a judgement call based on the facts presented and the attached information. I'm under no obligation to reveal my indentity.

Then stop pretending to be John Q.

In reality the topic never hit the true question:

Part 395 has no requirements to identify ?PTI?:

Yes, but part 396.13 does have to do with pre and post trip inspections, which is why it was quoted. In fact, I never quoted part 395 in the entire discussion, so I have no idea where you are pulling this out of.

The driver does not have to list ?PTI.? The regulations have no requirement to log the inspection,

Yes they do, if their company requires it.

They did. However, it was added into cargo securement under Part 397:

Are you just making this stuff up as you go along? Why would you state that something was added to part 397, and then quote part 392.9?

[Jumbo]

I read every post for two full pages and all I can say is: I have a headache.

[Flatspot]

Here's the bottom line.

If you drive for an outfit that slip-seats you, protect your hide (and that of everyone else driving the same roads you do) and do a proper pre-trip inspection.

If you live in that truck for weeks at a time, you have a good idea of what needs checked, and how often.

However, I've had it happen many times that I parked for mandatory rest, and did a quick walk-around while the engine warmed up before resuming driving, just to find a flat tire because I rolled over something that poked a hole in the tire.

A pre-trip can save your hide, as well as save your livelyhood (in regards to charges, log violations, etc).

As far as in-trip inspecitions, unless they've been deleted from the regs, flatbed and covered wagon drivers are required to stop and check load securement.
All drivers are required to stop and check tires (3 hours or 150 miles for most; 100 miles for haz-mat, if I remember the numbers correctly).

If you do it, then log it. It can save you in the event of an accident. The first thing John Law wants to see is your log book. It's on him to prove you didn't do it. But you make it easier for him if you don't log it.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Myth_Buster

Then again perhaps drivers fail to log realistic times for work performed and never expect to be caught. Is it unrealistic to believe that performing a pre-trip

Actually, a thorough pre-trip inspection should take a lot longer than 15 minutes.

and filling out the corresponding DVIR takes at least 15 minutes?

I thought you were "knowledgalbe" about FMCSA's rules. DVIR's are done at the end of the driving day. :lol:

I once worked for a carrier that insisted DVIRs be marked "No Defects Found" and any equipment safety issues be submitted on a separate sheet to the maintenance department. Those separate sheets can be used in documenting false reports, i.e. DVIRs.

And I trust you reported your motor carrier to DOT as soon as they required you to do this. :roll:

It's not uncommon for drivers to be cited for false logs when there is unrealistic on-duty time recorded, i.e. 15 minutes for tarping a load of hay. :shock:

Your point?

[yoopr]

Originally Posted by Jumbo

I read every post for two full pages and all I can say is: I have a headache.

Head On-Apply Directly to your Forehead
Head On-Apply Directly to your Forehead
Head On-Apply Directly to your Forehead

:P

[Jumbo]

I will try that.

[yoopr]

That commercial gives me a Headache