K...what am I missing?
 

Hmmm let me start by mentioning I am very new to this own authority thing, I am very shocked to see the only two loads I have booked have been thru major carriers, Steven's and Schneider....so if I can book decent loads thru them at 1.50-1.60 dry van....why the hell would I want to lease to them for 90c plus feul surcharge, and then get stuck with heavy a$$ loads not going where I choose?
Now I quess if you get a good dispatcher (driver mgr or whatever they call it) I quess things could be ok. But never been my luck as a Co. driver, just always got some clown waiting till it was friday and putting in his hours and couldnt give a $hit bout me.
Just occurs to me when I see so many peps here asking...should I lease here or there?

Well, it's seems to me, that you are missing your unpaid DH miles, increased operation costs(own trailer...) longer times to get paid(if ever)

At the end of your first year, get your average rate, for all miles run, and you might see, that it's not much different(if any), than $0.90+FSC(currently, probably about $1.20 a mile) And their costs, is probably $0.15-20cpm lower than yours, with a lot less headache!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you, or anybody. You just asked, what you are missing, and i just trying to give you my perception on that.

Eventually, it doesn't really matter, what your official status is.
It's all come down to money, whether you are making it, or not! :wink: 8)

That's good, that's the side of the story you don't hear around here very much. I was listening to this guru on XM today and he said that when it's all said and done, 19 out of 20 guys he deals with could do as well or better being leased on someplace. I'm not saying there aren't two sides to the story it's just that there are two sides to the story.

The freedom of booking your own loads is huge. But, the headache of booking your own loads is huge, too.

BTW, dispatchers work for the company, not the driver. The company has needs, the load planners have needs, these needs are as important to the dispatcher as the needs and desires of the driver. It's his job to balance them, not just give the driver anything he asks.

I feel Pepe is smart enough to find loads with less deadhead. Unload on one side of the state, and reload on the other, I think he smarter than that.

Last week or so, I did a dry run on paper. DId it as I was pulling a Reefer, Flatbed and Dry Van. Each time, I was able to come up with over 3500 Loaded miles, and only 60 miles deadhead for the entire week. And the dead head was to intial pickup, and to pick up last load.

But other than the money side of things, I feel and personal feeling, it's worth the lost of the few deadhead mile pay than putting up with the BS of any company out there. There are still some of us who do not see life with Dollar Signs all over it. There are some of us that realizes that you have to spend money to make money. Spend on deadheading to pick up that 1.60 per mile rather than hauling it for 90 cents per mile. More miles at 1.60 tens time better than the 90 for the little deadhead in the long run.

Takes a little planning, and a little thought, and if you deadhead you deadhead. I'm sure pepe not going across state to pick up the next load. so the deadhead will not be that painful of miles.

You didn't get it! :sad: It's not about being "smart", or "stupid", it's just nature of business! :wink:
And what do you mean,-"who do not see life with Dollar Signs all over it."?
What the hell in my post, made you say that!? :roll:

Yes, i make a living in a trucking, but money is merely a tool for me, not a purpose. It also true measure of your success, unless you do it for fun! :P

Coastie, those "dry runs" you modeled...I'm assuming you had no idea what those loads paid. I guarantee that you will not touch those kind of miles unless you plan on running for anything that's offered, and even then I'm dubious. By the way, you do know that you could make a delivery then a pickup in the same city and still have 50 miles deadhead, right? As far as what you're saying about rates, you've got a lot to learn.

Pepe, don't count on being able to get those rates from those guys too often. You got those kind of rates because you're going to bad freight areas. You did well coming out of TX at that rate especially if you didn't have to deadhead. We'll see how you do out of FL. I'm bringing a dry load, 18,000 lbs, from TX to FL for $1675 on 885 miles and I wouldn't have touched that except that it's prime time for reefers there right now. I'm looking to head back to CA and it's not pretty.

Solo; I did not mean to upset you, just wanted to point out some facts. Maybe I worded it wrong, but sorry for upsetting you.

To me hauling for any company would be a Bigger headach than the slight loss of deadheading loss. If you sit down and plan out your trips, using the information you have before you at the time, you can avoid alot of the unnessary deadheading. As I said I did do a dry run on paper, out of 3500 miles it had me deadheading 60 Miles the entire rounds. 35 to pick up the first load, and 25 to pick up last load. I know when I get out there doing it, it will not be the same as I did it on paper. But I was also doing it at worst case senerio Worst pay, that I'll accept, which is like Pepe, 1.50per mile.

You use all tools out there you can do well and not have the headach your talking about. Least to a company your running at their mercy. That a headach in it's self.

I am using the smallest amout I would accept. Some loads have their rates posted, and most do not. Yes but the deahead I am using are for having to travle to a different city. But still my point is the small amount of deadhead verse the amount of load miles, still better than depending on another company. Unload in one side of town and reload on the other yes, you can add up, but on average it will not be over 10 to 20 miles the most. To drive the full circle around Atlanta, is less than 20 miles. Then if you running no less than a certain amount of miles, the lower pay average is decreased where it not that big of a deal. You'll not be down 20 cents or such per mile.. As I just said use all the tools you'll make it.

You do have to avoid the bad areas. Florida and Calif. for my self. I look and see what offered in the areas before I would pick the load in the first place. If not much offered, then I would not look at a load going there.

Yes I do have a lot to learn, that why I am here on these forum to learn. It's going to be a while before I can get out there. But I am also stating from my previous experences also. How I seen companies run, and operated. Some things has changed, some has not. Most that change is the HOS. But as it is I have nothing else to do besides sit here and learn. Go out to eat now and then, but nothing to take me away that is very important. Being retired sux for me. So I want to go back to work, in a fields I enjoy. One is shut out for me now, and this leaves me the trucking. But it not like I am coming off the streets into a truck. Even when I started back in 96, I had some knowledge of trucking then, I grew up around it. But as long as I am driving, there will be something to learn, for I am a believer, if I think I know it all, I better park the truck.

What load boards are you looking at to find loads paying $1.50/mile average for 3500 miles a week and 60 miles of deadhead?

Oh, and you might want to take another look at your atlas, 20 miles won't get you all the way around the loop.

And you did not, no need to apologize! 8)

But if you really want to learn, you better think again. I'm not saying, that you shouldn't do it, only that "paper runs", didn't work, in reality
You may learn it an easy, or hard way, the fact is stay the same! :wink:

Deadhead is relative. If rates are high enough, the deadhead won't make as much difference. Another think to keep in mind is that most brokers will be off on their mileage by at least 5-10%.

The extra costs of having your own authority are roughly around 20-25k more a year than leasing with a megacarrier paying 1.20 a mile. Even if you average 1.60 a mile for all miles you will still be 15-20k ahead,will you not? Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't use as much fuel when you deadhead,which makes a difference at the pump. If having your own authority isn't much different than leasing with a megacarrier paying .90cpm+fuel surcharge than all O/Os would be broke. :lol: 1.20 a mile in today's economy with high fuel and maintenance costs is simply far from enough to operate on. Sure,you might make money in the beginning until the operating costs catch up with you. Been there,done that.NO THANKS.

Solo, just my Military experence coming into play. We did not set the ship on fire to learn how to put it out, Though they do certain ones for certain schools, you do not shot at others or have missiles fired at you to learn to battle them, yet we had fired dumby Torps at and been fired at by submarines, but It's mostly done in drills (paper runs). And I had to put these paper runs into realtime events. Fire at Sea May 8, 1985, Cuban hositilties (Never made the News) in the mid 80's and again in 95, and Central American Country attacking a US Flag Sailing Vessel.

I always try to Plan ahead. Seeing how things go. I do know it would not be the same. I do know that there more to it than writing it down. But I do know if I can make it from that. I do know I can find loads going to and from. So it not a wasit of time. It is a learning tool. And all it is a tool. On Paper and out doing it, is 2 different things. But I am taking what you and others are saying, and put it down in trail runs such as I did to learn to do it so I can do it with less problems.

Guess you don't know how to manage money then... also have you heard of a maintenance escrow? I just started 3 months ago and have $1900 saved.


I take 1 week off minimum every month.
I'm doing fine with my megacarrier. Despite many people on here telling me that I'd be just another number. solo379 was talking sht when I started a thread saying I was going o/o

You can have your own authority and make 25-35 cpm more then me, but you have to find a good honest broker(s). You don't mention also time spent finding loads if your broker don't have one... Have fun sitting at the DAT board LOL. Meanwhile I'm rolling on down the road.

The unpaid deadhead miles take their toll GMAN, you know this. I'm at least paid for those.

The issue isn't managing money. The issue is 1.20cpm is NOT enough to operate on in the long run. When leasing with a megacarrier you are merely a glorified company driver. Some find out the hard way. :cry: Maintenance escrow? :lol: Most carriers only require what,1k? :lol: On a used truck you will end up spending FAR more than that and it is merely just a low-reserve savings account on a new one. There is no point in rolling down the road if you are not making a profit. :lol: 1900.00 saved in 3 months,lol? That is only 7600.00 a year and won't even cover an overhaul. :lol: You are just subsidizing the company.Like I said before everyone does fine in the beginning until operating costs start catching up,which is one reason why you see a full repo lot.

Funny that you've mention it! :D
I just want to add, that it applies to any O/O, weather leased, or with own authority.

All i wanted to say, is that authority is not necessarily makes you success, and profitable, and in a lot of cases, they are making the same, if not less, than those "will work for food" :D $0.90+FSC O/O.

At the same time, leasing to a good company, could work quiet well! :wink:

Coastie,

I must agree with no_worries and solo.....I think you're numbers are off a bit. I don't know much about vans, but from what I read, I think $1.50 is high. Also, 60 dead miles might be achievable if you're pulling a van to and from a good area, but I can tell you that you will have many, many more dead miles than that with a flat.

It almost seems that you're taking the best from each scenario...i.e dead miles from vans and higher rates from flats.

We run steps and double drops in the northeast and I feel lucky to get a 60-100 mile deadhead to pickup (in NY, PA, CT back to ON) on a 400-500 mile load. That's 20%-25% and it would be higher in less populated areas. Also, unless you live in Ohio or Pittsburgh, being home every weekend will cause your DH miles to skyrocket.

I think Steve is running about $1.60 loaded with about 10% DH (that's probably low). Using those numbers, that's $1.45 for all miles. If we put costs at $1.10 (no driver pay), you'll have a pretax profit of $35,000 on 100,000 miles.

Budgeting for $1.30 loaded and 20% DH "should" provide some breathing room for an economic downturn.

Not trying to be an accountant...just trying to provide a viewpoint. Hope it helps.

Agreed. It all comes out to what you average per mile and what your costs are. The problem with leasing to a carrier is that most are paying .90cpm plus fuel surcharge and the few percentage-paying companies that are left average out to the same thing. Finding good customers and/or brokers is the key.Unfortunately it is not done easily.

The same thing, is about finding a good(very subjective) company to lease to. And if you'll find such a company, you'll find all in one;-customers, brokers+some cost reduction, on top of that! 8)

Not sure how your arriving at your figures but I'm grossing over $3,500 per week and taking home at least $1,200 every week and that's my worst weeks. I've done many $5,000 weeks. You can split hairs all you want and talk about college funds and other crap I don't care about but since I started I seem to be doing just fine.

I am not sure where you came up with those operating costs of running your own authority, but I spend $3,955 per truck for cargo and liability insurance. About $1,200/yr. for a business telephone. And I spend $720/yr on load boards. The insurance and telephone are the only other expenses I have that I didn't have when I was leased to my last carrier. I still subscribed to the load boards. If someone has limited experience, they would likely pay more for their insurance than I do, but other than that I don't see a huge cost in out of pocket expenses. When I leased to a carrier, I paid my own IFTA or fuel tax, base plates and permits. If you lease to a carrier who pays mileage you may have those costs paid by the carrier, but only make $0.90/mile. From that point to having your own authority is a huge gap in earnings potential. Whether you earn more with your own authority has more to do with your management skills as driving a truck. If you are not a good manager or prefer someone else to do your planning, you may be more successful leasing to a carrier who dispatches and/or plans for you.

Rank, I do agree, I was not putting it into use, but I was referencing to state, it can be done, and done only.

I use any tools i can get. THat was just one. I was using national averge which has Van over Flats right now. least last week it did. Was it going to the good area? Yes, I'm no spring Greenhorn going into Trucking for the very first time. Unlike a Company Driver and most Leased on Drivers is forced dispatch, I am planning to run where I can reload and move. Reason for the little paper runss to see where good and where is not good. And I did not use DryVan as the sole of this test, really did not use Dry Van. I used Reefer, and FLATBED. But what I found, any of them dry van, reefer, or flatbed can be done with low deadhead percentage. But you have to search not just say well I'll have to deadhead 100 milesbefore you get aload. Look ahead before you call for a load what the chances of a load out of there first. Do not go blindly.

But by listening to everyone here, it sounds like their is no loads coming out of Florida. That what it sounds like. Rates maybe lower and be Cheap frieght but there a ton of loads. But the Cheap rates, I have not left anything there so I do not need to go. So Avoid FLorida, No biggy, Not in the route I want to go. Would I go to NEw England? No, so your example will not be applied. I lived there and Still burned out on the North East from when I was Driving for a Company. I still can go up I-85/I-95 Blindfolded and not miss a turn.(No I would not do that).

Rank, just remember I am doing what I can to learn with what I have. Heck I do not have a map of the USA with me, I having to use these maps on the computer. I am not out there driving again yet, Just research and Learning again. But when I do post its from what I have either learned here on this or one of the other few Sites I visit, or from when I was Driving. I am trying to learn via Internet right now, Heck I'm not going to dare try to drive here. My nerves not of Steal and when one of these trikes full of little kids pulls out in front of some of these Trucks, my scare factor jumps up 10 nutches. Pepe can vouch for how people drive where I am at.

I am beginning to regret to posing of my doings, for I did only to prove a point it can be done, not that it would be easy, just it can be done with prior planning. But the critize for doing what a person can do at the given moment in my sitution I am in is kinda hard to take. Not taking offence cause I know you all do not know the complate story behind me. WHat I am doing on paper and what in reality I know will be different. I know I may have to deadhead more than I like, but I also not a inexperensed Greenhorn just coming off the street.

Pepe, back to your thread here, Once you empty out in Florida, before you deadhead all the way back to Atlanta, check out Southern Georgia. South Georgia been having alot of Calif Loads. In fact most of what I been seeing from Georgia are from Southern Ga. Can not give you the rates of then though. Will not hurt to check them out before you pass by there.could cut your deadhead down some, who knows.

A glorified co. driver that owns a truck. Funny how you like to leave that out. Yes it's a disadvantage when it breaks down but if you know what you're doing mechanically it's no big deal.

That makes no sense.

That's not mentioning what I have in the bank, dummy. My maintenence escrow wont be touched. It's going to be used to pay this truck off early. How much do you have saved?

So you know for sure I'm going to need an overhaul before I trade my truck in and you know nothing about my truck? Wow you're special.

Wow if that were true no o/o's would exist for the co. I pull for. I did my homework and have a gameplan, do you? Have you even been an o/o? I guess I shouldn't even ask because anyone can lie on here :roll:

Wow! Where all this agression comes from!? Guilty conshens? :lol:

And Coastie, i made most of my money, operating in the area you are planning to avoid.
Just make sure, that you are getting pay enough, going in that area.
This week I've made a 530 hub miles run, my % cut was $1,460, dry box, leased! :wink:

Great spelling!! :lol: go back to 2nd grade

Solo, I did say it can be done, but it harder to do with the lower pay of the loads, but not impossible. I've gotten burned out going Northeast, and Florida hard to get a good paying load out. Calif, very restrictive, and getting worst.

Going back and forth to NJ twice a week, burns you out alot faster than going west. I would average 3000 miles a week on be burned out going to NJ and back and be so tired I would sleep most of the weekend. Took a load out to Colorado, and ended up in North Dakota. When I got back I had driven 4200 miles and I was ready to go again. That leaving out on Saterday and getting back the following Sunday, so 8 days driving time (Ready to go again)vrs 5 day (Burned out).

Solo isn't know for his spelling, but his advice is pretty sound! He might do the eye roll smiley icon too much but its all good. He makes money, so he's doing something right 8)

I was referring mainly to startup costs when you first get your authority with limited experience. Insurance can be around 10-12k a year and then you have the trailer purchase and maintenance,which can be another 10-15k.

SO you would have to dip into your bank account to cover an overhaul? The profit you make while rolling down the road is supposed to cover it. BTW,I have been an O/O for ten years. No one can predict when you will need an overhaul,but there is always the risk of having numerous unexpected breakdowns and they can easily add up on a used truck.

Coastie, don't take any of this personally. For the most part, there is useful information that can be gleaned from all of these responses. It's your job to separate the wheat from the chaff and benefit from it. Some of our responses may sound like we're getting on your case. For the most part, that's not the case at all. However, some of us that have gone through everything you all are preparing to, get a little tired of newbies who have been at the game for 3 months and try and tell us that everything we say is BS.

Take our friend Prodigy here who insists on insulting anybody that disagrees with his analysis of his numbers. Nobody questioned whether his numbers were correct, just what they actually mean. And after 3 months he's convinced that he knows what they all mean. I would only offer the following; before claiming that those who have gone before are wrong, get through a year. Along the way do a personal Balance Sheet. Look at that Balance Sheet and then tell us how you think you did. Then do a Balance Sheet as if you'd been a company driver during that time. Compare the two and then tell us how you think you did. How many of you have done a pro forma Balance Sheet? How many of you know what that is? It's an important tool.

GMAN, I don't think DD60's numbers are that far off when comparing a typical lease to a megacarrier to one's own authority. My insurance ran $6-7000 more. Plates and permits were approximately $3400. Loadboards and credit service $1200. Cell and internet are $1800. Postage and fax are $500. My trailer runs me about $.12/mile. Granted that's a reefer and some of those costs will vary a little depending on location, but not much.

Thanks Bandit! :lol:
Not that he deserves an any answer, with that kind of attitude! :P
And Coastie! I know what you are talking about, cause that's what i do for a living, that's my "dry box, leased O/O niche" :lol: I've been doing it for the last 10 years.
If you in it for the money, you shouldn't look for an easy, but for the better.
And the less restrictions(if the money is right) you have, than better you do! 8)
Prodigy! Do you mind to check a spelling? :P :lol:

Not sure this is is directed at me Steve......but in the event that it is, this is how I arrived at my numbers.

$1.60/loaded mile: my best recollection from your posts.
10% deadhead: again, recollection from your posts. Seems like you DH about 150 miles after a 1500 mile jaunt.
$1.10/mile costs: From my personal experience.
100,000 miles per year: Personal experience/conservative estimate.

Are my numbers incorrect? If so, please correct me.

I don't understand the relevance of take home to this conversation. I don't even know how a self employed person defines take home.

Don't understand this either. Didn't mean to offend you. I only used you as an example because I thought the OP could relate.

Exactly, listen to those who have failed at being an o/o. Listen to them criticize you and tell you that you will fail because their worthless ass did.

I've been o/o for 3 months but I'm no newbie.

The only tool in this thread is you. I don't need to put together a balance sheet because I've hired an accountant that's been in the transportation industry for over 20+ years, he tells me how profitable I am. But I guess that's irrelevant right? :roll: I don't have to post numbers on here to impress anybody or have a journal thread on here like steve does.

You see coastie. When deciding whether or not to be an o/o you can't just ask other people who've done it. It's not the same as shopping around for what companies you want to be a company driver for.

If you and I both started at the same company at the same time, both bought the same trucks, had the same amount of cash in the bank. One of us might fail miserably and the other do great. It's all about decisions. Should you take this light load over to UT where there's not alot of freight coming out or should you take this heavy load over to Atlanta where freight is plentiful.

You've probably heard this before and I'll post it again, when you become an o/o you're no longer a truck driver, you're a businessman. Alot of your success will depend on your attitude, not just what truck you buy or how much you have in the bank.

These guys who harp on "don't lease on to a megacarrier" aren't going to tell you that they don't get near the fuel discounts I do, or the insurance discounts, super low, paid deadhead miles and I don't have to hunt for a load and the company takes care of plates and permits and fuel taxes.

But you guys just keep on talkin' and I'll be here to call you on your BS, I aint going nowhere (as far as this board goes) Now I got to get on down the road.

Actually, I don't think that anyone that's responded to this thread has failed at what they do. I'm by no means out of business, I know Solo, and rank do rather well at what they do. Maybe you're privy to information that I'm not. In fact, I know Solo and I both run nicer equipment than you do. Mine's paid for, and if I remember correctly, I think Solo's is as well. Rank runs multiple trucks.

You're going to sit there and brag about the good businessman that you are and yet you rely on somebody telling you whether you're making a profit or not? One mark of a good businessman is understanding his business. One of the basic parts of any business is profitability.

I don't believe I ever told anybody not to lease to a large carrier. I did it. I actually think that's a good place to start. You come in with the attitude that you'll call everybody on the BS they're slinging and yet you don't say anything other than "It's BS." You certainly don't have to provide any supporting information, that's your prerogative. But you can hardly expect any credibility. And if you don't care about that, what's the point? Many of us have provided numbers to support the claims we make. I'm sure coastie would benefit greatly from meaningful data in support of your claims.

I'm in with the underdog. Prodigy has been defensive and abrasive but you guys have been talking shit to him and he's just trying to do something for himself. We get a lot of bragging on this forum about profits. Are you making a lot? That's great. Be happy. Be thankful. Maybe even share a little helpful info. But don't drag down the guy who is just starting out or may not be as talented as you (I'm not necessarily speaking of you, Prodigy). Look at this:

I just think it's good to encourage guys to do better but you have to accept us where we are, as well.
_________________

Balance Sheet: Assets + Liabilities = Owners Equity. And income statement will tell him more than a balance sheet.

This is the one I was looking for. Are you guys going to kiss or are you going to fight :lol: It seems the only thing everyone agrees on is that Prodigy is doomed to fail :sad:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is the funniest post I have ever read!!!!!

Sorry Rank, you're not offending me. That came across wrong in my post. I guess I would like to back off from getting into this. This is one area that can be beat to death...Sorry again.