Well thanks Prodigy. You brought up something I was trying to say in some of my earlier posts.

The purpose of the trail runs I was making to find the areas where frieght are plentiful and to see what types of freight plentiful and where at. The deading was a side note.. And it turns out in the area I want to run they are very much plentiful least for now in all 3 types, Flats, Dry and reefers. They will be 800 to 1500 miles out and then doing it again back. Mega loads from 100 mile radus of home. That to include Atlanta, Augusta, Ga, Athens, Ga, Anderson SC, Greenville SC, and Spartenburg, SC. That not adding all the small towns inbetween. Last week just in my home town they had listed 7 loads. 1 Reefer, 2 Dry Vans and 4 Flatbeds. Rates maybe a different Story. Some I seen what they pay and would not touch them, and they also have mega short hauls. but most I would have to deadhead as much I hauled loaded miles, so not worth my time and efferts. Example one load abbieville SC to Washington, Ga 40 miles deadhead, 33 mile loaded run. And they want it tarped? If I was bored and just wanted to do it for fun fine, but not as a living.. My goal is not deadhead further than 100 miles to pick up a load that is at or near 1000 miles or more.. Closer if I can.

I wasn't trying to call anyone names,though I can bring up a post by the GCD that did. :lol: It doesn't take an accountant to see the numbers and how they don't add up to a reasonable profit for the time you put into your "Business". :lol: Let's run the numbers down on an annual basis,shall we?These are estimates:



truck payment=14k
insurance=3k
maintenance=10k(15k if needing overhaul)
FUEL=55k
Misc road expenses(i.e. meals,supplies)10k

Based on 100k miles a year that comes to 92k if there is no overhaul or transmission work. At 1.20 a mile the profit is around 22-28k before taxes. 37-40k at 120k miles before taxes. Maybe less. To average 120k miles a year you would have to drive 10k miles a month during ALL seasons with no vacation unless your truck never breaks down and you have a dispatcher that loves you. :lol: I doubt the fuel surcharge is .30cpm anyway,so in actuality we are looking at 1.17cpm. To top it off there are no medical or other benefits,which proves 1.17cpm is not worth an O/Os time considering putting up with the headaches of owning and operating a truck. Im not trying to ridicule or talk down to anyone.Just giving a heads up that even though a megacarrier pays for all plates and permits their program is not designed to benefit an O/O and you have to rely on a dispatcher to give you the miles. In other words,YOU are dealing with all the expenses and headaches while THEY control how many miles you get.

Prodigy, isn't that the father in the Brady Bunch in your avatar?

Anybody care to break down the .90 CPM operating expense??? I think that's ridiculously high.

And no_worries, I'll respond to your flame later, got work to do. I'm not some fat, naked lard-azz sitting at his puter at home waiting for a response on this message board so I can troll him some more, know what I'm saying? As far as credibility, Like I said before, I have nothing to prove to anybody on here, I'll be happy to post my end of year numbers in Feb '08 if anybody cares.

That's cool. My truck is pretty dang nice I get compliments on it all the time, drivers can't believe it's an '03.

I may just decide to hold onto it until it dies. There's no EGR crap on it and it runs great for having 611k on it. You guys can have your brand new petes and KW's and I'll be that guy with the ok looking but well maintained truck that's paid off.

I don't want to offend, I just want this guy to make it if he can. I'm a newb myself. I just have a very honest question for you, how do you account for all the long time O/Os at Dart. Schneider or whoever, some of these are easy targets as everybody is happy to pick on them. That's why I say Dart because these too are our boys, right? I never went to OOIDA message board so I don't know if they get along over there. Do you think the O/Os at Dart are fools?

I am glad you gave us actual numbers though. When someone else is just giving you your loads and paying your deadhead, 10,000 paid miles a month is not hard. He's paying off his truck, he ought to quit taking so much time off and run that 120,000 paid miles until he owns it.

$55,000 on 100k paid miles, that comes out to 5.2 mpg with $2.86/gal fuel (that's a high average but not if we are talking a 30cpm fsc). They are most likely shorting him 8% on the miles. There will be out of route miles if just to get back to the house. I still wonder if he can lower that fuel cost- extra miles and idling v. higher mpg and fuel discounts

Everybody has to buy food. Can we trim down the 10k in incidentals?

He may not be making more than a company driver but he can have a little more freedom. One of the worst things about being a company driver is the companies pushing you to go, go, go, live to drive so that they can get as much as they can out of their investment in your equipment. Particularly when he gets the truck paid off, this will afford him a better lifestyle. Then too, like me, he can think about repositioning himself for a percentage job or chemical tankers :wink: perhaps even then he could run his own authority. I'll let you and Solo fight it out about what is better. :D

Going back to Dart, though? All failures? :?

I am sorry if I came on a bit strong on this post. I purchased my trailer while leased to a carrier. I didn't consider that in my numbers since it is not part of running my own authority. I only posted those numbers that were in addition to what I paid while leasing to a carrier. I paid my own base plates and permits, equipment, maintenance, etc., The only other expenses I incurred running my own authority were for insurance and telephone. You are correct about your insurance running higher if you have limited experience. The more experience you have the lower your rates are likely to run. If you consider the cost of a trailer, you are probably correct with your numbers for the first year, providing you pay cash for your trailer.

No_worriers, you are probably correct if you consider the cost of buying a trailer. I was basing my statements on already having a trailer since I bought my own trailer while leased to a carrier. Some carrier's require owner operators to furnish their own trailers. Some do not. An owner operator can usually make more money if they have their own trailer. I think when you mentioned "mega-carrier" you are probably talking about some who pay mileage and furnish a trailer for the owner operator to pull.

I got my cell phone and Internet service while I was still leased to a carrier. I also subscribed to load boards while still leased since I brokered some of my own loads while leased. The carrier I was leased to at the time would allow owner operators to get their own loads if they didn't have anything in the area. At the time, I mostly ran the West coast and they only had one agent in California. If they didn't have something either they brokered a load or I did.

Other than equipment, insurance is the largest single expense most of us have when we run our own authority. If we consider the cost of purchasing a trailer with the initial start up costs, then DD60's costs are much closer to actual numbers, depending on the type and age of your trailer.

No_worries, I am curious as to where you buy your base plates and permits. They seem unusually high. With single state (which we no longer use) and base plates, etc., I pay about $1,700 for 48 states. My base plates, by themselves, run just over $1,400 per truck.

CA :evil: Actually, that does include a first-year charge to register in CA since I was plated in a different state prior. But since we were talking about the costs associated with making the switch, I thought it was relevant. Also, that doesn't include SSR, that's my total for this year. And you're right, I was considering "megacarrier" to mean the SNI's, Dart's, Werner's, of the world. I know a bit about your background GMAN, and your lease history is not what I would consider the norm. Though it is much better. I too had my cell service and internet while I was leased, but I didn't need it to do the job, therefore I don't classify it as a business expense at that time. Those are must-haves with your own authority so I reclassified.

Cam, what I was driving at was a personal balance sheet, or net worth statement. If you have one from the end of one year to the end of the next and compare the two, that will give you the best evaluation of your performance. After all, the goal is to better your lot in life. However, that's only half the picture. You also need to compare it to how you would have done as a company driver. Remember, any up-front money you spend could be invested earning a decent return. You have to evaluate the opportunity costs to get a clear picture. You may very well increase your net worth by $50,000 and that may sound good to you. But what if you would have done the same as a company driver? Does that change your analysis? And that brings us to the O/O's at Schneider, et al. Most lease-ops there are making right around the same money they'd be making as company drivers. They're in no danger of going under. But, if after paying a market salary a business makes no profit, how successful is it? For many people having the sense of freedom or the sense of ownership they get from their truck more than outweighs the fact that all they're doing is buying a job. That's perfectly alright...but it's not good business.

Ok, so you did mean 'balance sheet'. No quarrels. I just don't want to make things sound more complicated than they are. It's good to work all that out with an accountant and he seems to be doing that. But, this is no big conglomeration, a lot of it he'll be able to keep in his head until such time as he has done enough to have some real numbers he can work with.

This was my experience as a company driver. You start the new job and away you go, money, money, money. Man, that gets old. The time away from the house, the go, go, go. You haven't delivered and the next load is waiting and when things don't work out you are driving like a madman to make the pickup. Then you hit that streak of shorties: Unload in the morning, deadhead, load, drive over night, unload, deadhead, load, drive over night... I could do it just so long.

He's making money. He is learning the game, and don't discount that, that's huge. He's building up a little equity and if he'll run hard at first maybe a lot of equity. There is something to look forward to more than just the money he is making. And he posts to CAD and lurks a lot and he gets all this priceless info from you fine gentleman and when he's ready, he makes the jump to something more profitable.

I appreciate your integrity and your sticking to your guns and calling out the O/O mega companies along with the ones that also have company trucks. No sacred cows, you are calling it straight. Let's look at two different types of guys 1) a guy just getting into the game leased onto a megacarrier getting his feet wet and paying the bills 2) a guy leased onto a mega carrier for many years with no intention of doing anything different. I'm not touching this last one, I don't know enough to say, I do better just listening. But the first guy, using his megacarrier lease as a stepping stone to whatever lofty heights of owner operatordom that are out there, I want to encourage that guy and look for the best. Not to get beat up about lease purchase, but my 4 months of lease purchase were both profitable and invaluable in opening up the game to me so that now I have a truck that's paid for and I'm on to other horizons.

BTW, nobody's increasing their net worth $50,000/yr in a company job. Best case scenario, that's after tax earnings, best case. From that comes all his household expenses throughout the year and if there is any increase in net worth it's only the portion of that $50k he is able to save.

Wow this post really took off...I appreciate all the trains of thought, lots for me to consider when coming back from Asia next year and beggining year two as an 0/0p

You know its funny, I became an O/0p own authority more out of wanting my own real freedom.....Its hard to explain, I was severly abused I believe as a Co. driver lol.....not to want to sound whiney or anything, but I swear every dispatcher I had was a sado-masochist looking for his stick to shove so deep up my a$$ where the sun dont shine.

I made good $ with Co's only when I had a trainee in the truck, cuz I would tell him to call to the company and whine that we were getting abused (they always would lol) and we would actually get results cuz the companies would listen to him more then me (go figure lol)

You know its funny, lot of pep say I can make more $ as a Co. driver then an O/0p....hmmm if you only knew my, 'No body knows the troubles Ive seen song lol" Hmmm Co driver in a forced dispatch situation, they would routinely force me to p/u a local load, promise an hourly, but on my check each time I saw miles..........hmmmm wow the $...lets see...I worked about 8 hours fighting heavy city trafic to p/u that 20 mile load, and made a wopping 30c times 20 miles woo-woo. N fight as I might I could never change that system (finally years latter got a little justification after years of litigation....dont even wana go there) Yeah i cleaned up as a company driver lol

Point is Im scared shitless to lease on to a mega carrier after being a mega company driver (why would I expect them to be better to me cuz I have 1 little truck now?) ,,,Ive seen just how truely powerless I am in their eyes and I could never put a $ number on what that translates to money wise.
N leasing to a small one....hmmm seen these guys waiting for their checks cuz Joe-blow small time operation cant meet his budget n wont pay me.

Hmm dunno...which carrier are you with Prodigy?....maybe I might consider them sometime, but love my independence out here for the first time in my life I feel free and enjoying myself out here. I quess if I ever got a dispatcher that treated me like family (hmmm maybe should hope for better then family....some peps beat their wives)....I would see things differently.

Cam, I don't disagree with anything you said. I was using $50,000 purely as a number, it wasn't meant to be an actual example.

I don't think that I've bashed anyone for leasing to a large company, nor have I said they can't make it. I've been a company driver for SNI, I've also leased to SNI. I know what can and can't be done in those leases. You can certainly make a decent living leasing to these companies. All I've said is that what you can make is going to be limited to somewhere in the neighborhood of what a company driver could make. That's just the way it is when your lease is paying within a certain range. I meet guys all the time who claim they have excellent profit levels on these leases. Without exception they use faulty accounting. Guys have nice cash flows and they consider everything after the truck expenses to be profit, without considering driver pay. I take $.50/mile for driver pay. That's the equivalent of a company paying me about $.42/mile. It's nice pay but not spectacular. When you take all expenses, including depreciation, plus driver pay, what's left would be your profit, or return on investment. A $1000 payment, minimum expenses of $6000/year, fuel at $.40/mile and maintenance at $.10/mile put operating expenses at $1.15/mile on 120,000 miles. That's about what a $.90/mile lease is going to pay right now and those are lowball expense numbers. This is what most of us have been saying. We're not saying guys can't make it. I know from experience that one can. But, if someone wants to claim they're more than meagerly profitable, we have our doubts. And those of us that express this opinion just don't believe in going through the hassle of owning a business if it's not going to make a profit. That's all.

I actually like to see people making a run at this. I'm only 33, by no means a sage, but I like to pass on what I've learned because others did for me. But when guys get all defensive because people question their unsubstantiated claims and resort to insults...c'mon. If you say something you know to be true, there's no need to be defensive because you've got the proof. If you don't have the proof then you don't really know for sure.

By the way, I'm using "you" in general, not directed at anybody in particular.

Generally speaking, most jobs are priced to pay similar to being on your own this way they can hire people.

Here's an example: Company driver makes 30,000. Owner Operator makes 100,000. Finding company drivers would be tough.

However, if an Owner Operator only made 35,000 then lots of people would be company drivers for 30,000 and not have the risk.

There are some O/O's that hit the ball out of the park, but most don't.

No Worries, if someone had addressed this sooner I wouldn't have had to. Prodigy is trying to make a go of it and he's told he's doomed to fail. How about we stick up for the guys trying to do something, you yourself have said:

The man is being told he is doomed to fail! For you and me it's just talk. For him, it's one of the most significant things he's doing with his life and he has a lot of hope vested in this. Defensive?! I'd say mad as hell would be appropriate! :lol: Again, I wouldn't have to be the bad guy if someone had spoken up sooner.

DD60, I'm not trying to pick quarrels with anyone. I know guys can use some of these low profit margin gigs to get started, to learn the business and to position themselves for better opportunities. I never read all of what went on in any other thread so I'm not talking about any of that. Some of you point the way to greener pastures and that's good to know. Just give us a little space to get our feet under our legs or however that goes.

no_worries wrote
[/quote]Remember, any up-front money you spend could be invested earning a decent return. You have to evaluate the opportunity costs to get a clear picture.

Guys have nice cash flows and they consider everything after the truck expenses to be profit, without considering driver pay. I take $.50/mile for driver pay. That's the equivalent of a company paying me about $.42/mile. It's nice pay but not spectacular. When you take all expenses, including depreciation, plus driver pay, what's left would be your profit, or return on investment. A $1000 payment, minimum expenses of $6000/year, fuel at $.40/mile and maintenance at $.10/mile put operating expenses at $1.15/mile on 120,000 miles. That's about what a $.90/mile lease is going to pay right now and those are lowball expense numbers.

Hmm...what happened, my quote is NOT in blue and my response IS in blue. Oh well.... :?

We just interpreted what DD60 said differently. You took it to mean that the individual can't make any money while I took it to mean that the business can't make any money. Either view would be correct. An owner can make $50,000 a year while his business goes bust.

I never once said Prodigy couldn't make it, nor did I personally attack him. He made some claims about his profitability and I responded to those. I didn't think I came off particularly hard-assed considering what I was responding to, but everyone takes things differently. You say getting mad is inappropriate? I think getting mad if somebody tells you it can't be done is irrational. I think it's great that these guys want to try. I admire Steve for what he's done. However, these are grown men, I just figure they don't need a pat on the back from someone they don't even know to justify their actions.

There have been some interesting insinuations as to what I'm really like lately. Suffice it to say, nobody would recognize me if that's what they were expecting. It's foolish to run around making claims about someone personally when you are just pulling things out of the air.

I rather enjoy these arguments. I'm just glad that you can make them in a rational way and not get too personally involved. Alright, my alternator's replaced, gotta go make some money. I'm sure I'll be on later...maybe y'all can figure out how I happen to get on here so much :lol:

BINGO.

He might be able to do that once! Yeah, you turn the blown up truck back over to the finance company and let them send their lawyers if they think they can get anything out of you. 'Doom', 'Failure'. No matter how you slice it he has failed because he's not going to do that twice.

You're a good guy, I can see that. No_worries, no one is confused about what that and 'will work for food' means. (the 'will work for food' remark...it's funny...it's all good...)

As the old man would say, no one here has ruffles on his drawers. :lol:

One last final point, it is good and necessary to talk about 'driver pay' as being an expense as opposed to 'profit' even for an owner operator. Guys should hope to 'pay the driver' and make a profit. There are quality of life issues too, however. It's not hard to imagine an owner operator being willing to settle for either less 'driver pay' or less 'profit', you choose what you want to call it, an O/O could rationally settle for less of one or the other AT TIMES IF HE HAS TO to maintain that freedom to go to the house any time he wants for as long as he wants understanding that he still has to pay his bills. A couple of instances when someone might rationally be willing to settle for less 'pay' or 'profitability', hey, just starting out...does that make you think of anyone... ? How about the slow season like winter. How about a guy waiting for just the right time to jump to something better. How about a guy who says 'I'm just content with what I'm making and how I'm living'. These are all rational, personal decisions.

C'mon No-worries, you're a good guy and fun to throw it around with. Nothing here is personal, right? :)

There are a couple of ways to look at profit when it comes to being an owner operator. I have known of some new owner operators who may make $0.45-60/mile after fuel. The way these people look at it is that they would only make $0.30/mile if they were a company driver. To them they are making a lot of money. They are not taking into consideration their payments, and other maintenance costs. The other way is to pay yourself as if you were a company driver. I have one friend who owns a couple of trucks and he has paid himself a fixed salary ever since he bought his first truck. He does this regardless of the truck pay or how many miles he runs. I know others who pay themselves a percentage of the line-haul and others a flat mileage rate. These last two would be paid to a driver if the owner did not do the driving himself. Any of these last three would be preferable from a business standpoint. You pay yourself a living wage and still don't drain the company of all of it's money. I think most owner operators don't pay themselves a wage. They just take what is left over after truck expenses for the week. Although this can work, you will need to take money from your personal savings if something breaks or you need tires, etc.,

One reason I prefer a corporation is that it is much easier to separate company funds from personal. You work for the corporation. As an employee you are entitled to be paid a salary or wage. As an employee you only take your wage or salary out of the corporation. The rest builds equity and reserves can be used for upgrading equipment or maintenance.

No Bingo, that's not how markets work. Labor markets are a kind of market. But, I don't want to be the contrary one and there are enough people around here who understand this so I'll let someone else explain it.

Let me just do this.

Companies can't just make up a comparison of what their O/Os and company drivers make out of thin air. The O/O pay has to be competitive with what other outfits pay their O/Os in a similar system. By similar system I mean similar freight, cpm v. percentage, megacompany v. smaller ones... If Schneider just pulls numbers out of thin air then all the Dart guys are going to go to Schneider or all the Schneider guys are going to go to Dart, depending on what those numbers are.

Same with company drivers. The pay isn't set competitive with their O/Os, it's set competitive with other company jobs.

It is still up to the O/O to figure out the numbers and see if it is worth the time to lease on a certain carrier. The problem with most cpm carriers is that they control how many miles you get. Sure,they advertise no forced dispatch,but they can always lie and say there is no other load available and if you refuse it in some cases you will end up paying the deadhead. THEY are in control of YOUR business. Looks like some of you misinterpreted what I was saying. There is a chance at succeeding with these companies,but the chances of doing it are not very high and in the long run it will not pay off. A few major breakdowns in a short time and it could easily start putting the O/O toward the red. It happens with a lot of used trucks. There simply is not enough revenue to budget for these circumstances at 1.17cpm.If you look at the numbers I posted you will see what I mean. Im not saying it happens with every truck,but the risks are there,which is one reason why many fail.

ok
 

I don't want to get too into anybodys "how to make money, or anything like that", but I will say... trucking is a hard job any way you look at it, be it company driver, lease operator, or O/O. You new guys don't think you know it all after a few months doing it. Listen to what the old guys say. Experince is a education through living it. I have been a O/O since 91, not a lease operator. I haul what alot on here don't ... livestock. Often I make big money (my average weekly gross is $8,487.00), sometimes I scratch my head thinking why the H am I doing this. Why do I? Because I love my job, and being in my truck... it is not for the money, the money only keeps me doing it. I do have a better than average retirement, I am setting better than alot of guys doing this, there are I am sure many that are sitting better than I. But my whole point here is guys, listen, don't take things personal, and I can see why on the radio so many of you guys can't get along... just food for thought.

Cam, I don't take anything personally :lol: I just have issues with people who don't respond logically to arguments. Oh, I tend to address a lot of posts when I post, if it doesn't seem like it's directed at you, it probably isn't. I try and make it clear if I'm addressing someone in particular. (I wasn't calling you illogical) 8)

GMAN, I would agree that your second and third examples or acceptable methods. I don't believe the first is, unless I'm misinterpreting something. Someone that just looks at what's left after fuel and is happy he's got $.60/mile instead of the $.30 he'd have as a company driver, hardly has a grasp of what his business is doing and therefore no concept of his profit. But maybe I misunderstood you. It's been a long day :?

I think the big companies pay their drivers based on what they've budgeted into their business plan. They have expectations as far as revenue and what they want as profit. Everything else fits into place, including driver pay. Now O/O's are a different story. Here I think they pay the minimum amount they can and still attract operators. It's well known that companies make more off their owner-ops than they do off company drivers, so they could pay more. I think the rates of pay for the two are mutually exclusive.

You are correct, no_worries. The first example is not acceptable, but there are more in that group than you might think. The individual in this first group has no grasp on how to profitably run a business. I was merely attempting to show various types of owner operators who are in this business. The people who work on percentage and manage their business should do better than the others.

Guys, I think for me this thread has run it's course. I saw this:

I have no idea what happened in some other thread. My thing, I just don't want to see a new guy being told he can't make it in a cents per mile O/O system when there have been guys doing it for years. 'New guys', we're talking guys getting their feet wet who benefit from drawing on all the support you get from a system like that. I'm not saying these systems shouldn't be criticized. I'm not saying there aren't better ways to make money in trucking. For a lot of first timers these megacarrier systems are the only accessible opportunity. If you know of someone who has a better lease to offer him, do tell. If not, just try to help him do it right and get himself established and help him to position himself for whatever greener pastures that may be out there.

Obviously, you can do and say anything you like. But, I'm going to look for the side of the underdog, lots of people are that way so I don't think I have to explain that. Maybe Prodigy will continue to post here and we can have peace and love and we can chew his azz if he's spending too much time at the house :wink: and we can all crack a cold one when he tells us the baby has diapers and he's doing great and the truck is paid off and now he's going to the half price prime rib and cheesecake buffet at the Rainbow in Wendover to celebrate! :party:

Yeah Big probably isnt too far off; when you consider the market forces and all.....but what really gets me is so much here is just analysis and numbers....true thats what is easiest to discuss, and no one can arquee with accurate fiqures....hmmm but bear with me why I try to look at the untangibles, that add up to so much missed $ and opportunities that its impossibe to put a # on it....(I know I will miss something here so feel free to correct me)
What will and can go wrong:

1.O/OP with authority:
a. Long D/h eating into profits
b. Low freight rate brokers not carring or understanding I cant haul maxed out weights for 1.00-1.10 a mile (man can you guys help me with some smart-a$$ response)...like excuse me....did I just call the laugh factory by accident? ..or hmmm is this jokes are us, right?.....that is who I am calling right?
c. Deadbeat brokers not willing to pay

2. O/op company lease drivers:
a. A dispatcher who really doesnt give a shit about you and a mega-company that really doesnt care either....just looking for suckers to bleed.
Yeah I can refuse a load, but lets get reall folkes (as DD60 pointed out before) You might as well shoot yourself in the head if you start refusing loads and really think you can pick and choose where you go?
Company politics are rough, your dispatcher (knows this way better then you ever will) and is either a person who a-is a collegee kid just working this to get by till they finish there courses (and do their real carrer...TG its Fri...n screw truck 666) or b- Is a carrer company person who will cut anyones throat who gets in their way, espicially YOU ( they dont intend to dispatch long...they have an eye on a mgmt. position)
God help you if he is in a war with other dispatchers cutting and stealing each others loads. Only way I would consider this is I had a pal working for mega company and he assured me he would be concerned.
b. Wont even consider the small guy myself....in LA a mega city like I coul really know Joe-blow personally and what he is really hiding under his rugs? Yeah suppose this could n does work for lots, just be sure to know all you can really about Joe-Blow Trucking and what dirt is really swept under his rug.

3. Co driver:- Hmm I could write a damn book about how much happier I am as a O/0p w/authority over this.....yes I know its not always green here either, but God Lord I was a company peon and worthless slave to them.
a. Yeah I made about a little over 30k a year, but I put in about 95 hours a week NOT 70! I did SO much unlogged work for them. Your forced dispatch! They have ways and are professional at using their system to get you to work for FREE! Promising hourly, paying you by the mile you will do so many local del, local p/u's and oooooh please just move this trailer one time for us? ....and go over and see whats wrong with truck 55566? (go your dam self!) ....n you wont hmmmm you need a drug test(more time you give for free) like maybe 5 more drug tests in the next 5 months, yeah I git use to my monthly random drug test sometimes for acting up!
b. Which brings me to the next....try and complain about all the screwed up free work they expect you to do......you are a complainer! That needs to be squashed like the insignificant bug you are.
C will you ever go home?........hmmmmmm glad I was single! I was routinly asked are you a family man? Are you fricking kidding? THe kids wouldnt know me when I got home, the dog would bite me....n the wife would have her divorcee pappers in hand claiming neglection.

My point is I will take the problems with door 1 if I get a choice...I respect lot of peps take door 2 or three......Of course I didnt even deal with the maitence problems assumed with 1 and 2.......thats too much a given, and we would turn this into the infinite post if we went their.

Sorry, to interrupt such conversation, :P but one more thing, i want to say about O/O "freedom"!
You only have "freedom", if you are making money, profit.
Otherwise, you have to run! You'll be probably have even less "freedom", than company driver! :wink:

Hmmm have to respectfully disagree about less freedom, maybe it was just my bad luck with companies, maybe I should have quit n found a better 1?
Still dont think the better 1 dream exists...all equally bad! When I was delivering Swifty asked if USX was any better....shit all equally bad IMO!
They said, 'quit' and quit whining if you dont like it.....finally I did...no I dont miss getting hung out months at a time by USX, spending weekends laid over in nowhere places, routinly forced dispatch into places I knew I would never get freight out of (like I could refuse...cant forced dispatch)
woo-woo 1 day off work for each week out....and they were saying I could only accumulate up to 5 days off....stayed out 7-9 weeks cuz you SOB's hung me out again!
You know its funny ...I didnt really care tho....had no wife n kids at home, just felt like the devil (incarnate) when I trained these young innocent and naive kids with families (who actually missed them and carred where they were) to support that had no clue what the company gig was REALLY about, and looked up at me with their dreams and trusting looks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: didnt care, had adopted the company motto,'more $ for me even if it screws you!' May God forgive me for my sins (doubt it, probably was the sin of unforgivnes...Co trainer)

Now,for the first time I feel like I am captain of my destiny, and yes, my ship could flounder n sink.......point is they were MY decisions(I have the helm wheel) God willing!....not some Hitler complexed punk kid dispatcher sticking his boot up my a$$

In this business your attitude has a lot to do with your success, whether it is as a company driver or owner operator.

True G-man....but no other job I think you would concur, is as demanding as an OTR driver except maybe peace officer or fire-fighter?
OMG the turnover rate at these companies is an astounding 99% after one year rates!....No other industry could even survive that I think.
I really believe no one is a company driver unless they havent fiqured out how not to be.....a bold statement I know, but just how I feel, what a thankless job position.
I can remember we lost a million mile driver at USX .....killed in an accident.....I felt bad about it of course. Max came on the quell-com with some crap about we outta all drive with our lights on for Bruce as a tribute...OMG...if it was my bloody dead body....you BETTER BURY ME IN YOUR DAM$ BACKYARD MAX AS A TRIBUTE AND ERECT A STATUE! (or ill hunt your butt down as a ghost so help me...)....lights on he$$ ;=p
I trained maybe 40-50 student drivers at USX and only saw 1 a year latter.....hmmm wonder why :twisted:

Sorry for my tiraids all; its been from many years of fustration Ill tell ya LOL
Hmmm back to some numbers, I have booked my load back home to So Cal....thru Prime for 2,700, that leaves me with a gross of 5,700 for appx two weeks work. I will spend appx 1,700 in feul (I almost always turn off my truck immediatly after puling in somewhere). My theory is book the lightest weight I can.....not scientifically sound I suppose, but quess I've had some beginners luck, the load home is 20,000.

I realize this is far from hitting a home run.....n one good at bat doesnt make a season for sure, but am thankfull to God for a good start.

Ohh yeah Coastie, Ive been realizing short D/H's are unrealistic in my opinion, best to take the distance and go find the better paying light load then take the crapy paying close 45,000 pounders.

My 3 D/H's have cost me appx. a quarter of a tank each, even the short one into LA cuz of crapy traffic....a quarter of a tank runs me appx $150.00

You sure about your math on the dh's pepe? That seems awfully high unless you're dh'ing quite a ways. 1000 miles cost me about $385. I should know, I just about did it getting home :lol:

yeah not sure exactly....there quesstamites really

My first I got caught in LA rush hour traffic....which is why I am quessing high at a quarter of a tank

Second DH was from Odessa to Dallas....I got caught in some early morning Dallas traffic which didnt help.

Third is all the way down here in Marianna Fl....to just S/W of Augusta Ga.....hmmm the thing that screws this DH up no good direct routes in....these higways thru small sticks towns sux.


You really were the best batting coach tip tho NW....when you mentioned that sometimes the lighter pay better....what gives????? thats crazy
I waded through 45,000 pound loads only paying a 1.00 a mile to get this 20,000 pounder paying 2,700 from Augusta to So Cal...go fiqure ;-p

This sound very confusing, Dallas ?? Odessa?? What State ? Just tring to get the full picture.

Your been just as well off taking one of the 1.00 loads for 45000 lbs than to dead head up to Augusta. From the Augusta area that only about 1.20 per mile, and after deadheading for 331 miles, you just about ate up the extra 20 cents for the liter load.

Though I am not out there yet, and I been off the road awhile I do know that much dead heading is taking you in the wrong Direction. I do know you need to plan ahead more in where your going to get loaded back out of. So as your earlier statement not doing much deadheading in unreality? think again. Deadheading that much is a Killer. I do know for a fact you could have gotten more of a paying load out of Augusta, least a 1.50 per mile.

Ok this was the offer

Had a load just in Tallahasseee, thru this broker who routinly offers heavy ass loads for 1.05 a mile
his load was 44,000 going to LA area and paid 2,100

The load just S/W of Augusta, thru prime, paid 2,700 and weighs only 20,000 pounds

Remembe I D/H empty........my mpg goes up 3-4 mpg

I will spend about a quarter of a tank to p/u this load.....that costs me 150....maybe 200 dollars if I spend more feul.
The lesser loads DRAMATICLY effect my mpg.....not to mention the intangibles
The intangiblles being these heavy butt loads beat the hell outta my equitment....:-p and I DEMAND comensation in pay for that, something these brokers just dont seem to understand.
Another untangible is I refuse to go home thru the Banning scales (unless the pay was right :D).....I always take my chances thru Cajone pass
This ighter load will give me almost 2 more miles to the gallon appx.....that REALLY adds up
So i spent about $150 appx to make 600 more.....not to mention easier on my equiptment and much better mpg home.....i would be struggling to get 5.5 mpg with that heavy ass load
I should average 7.5 appx going home with this 1.

Its funny, maybe someday when I am sick of driving would love to be a broker perhaps, but what gives, how come some of these guys can only get crap loads....is it really that hard to be a broker and get good loads?
Hmmm always thought of these mega-trucking-companies as evil slime, but at least they are smart enough to only broker loads at a decent rate.

Is that, what you call $2,700, from GA to CA, not to mention DH? :shock: :roll:

beats ta hell outa 2,100 weighing 44,000, the boards were full of those,....yeah just gotta be realistic man about whats out here .
Like I said I got 3k to come out here...all light weight loads....love to get your input where to find better, but I suppose like on the CB your just a HECKLER not a helper!

Pep- sound like your numbers are adding up for the bottom line. Only thing is watch your total time compared to total compensation. I don't place enough importance on time and every so often your your compare your time to your dollars and say, "oh well- I have nice drive anyway" Have fun. Bill