[Musicman]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I didn't SAY Joe was "cool," and I didn't say YOU weren't.

I wasn't being literal in that statement and I didn't think the bulk of your chastisement was focused on me.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I have been working HARD for the last few years to get my credit score up to a "low risk" level. About 750 now, I believe. I'm thinking about buying a HOUSE for the first time. But, I've also been thinking about buying a truck. Don't have the $30k or so that GMAN says I should have before getting into the business, but I will in another year or two. I am patient.

I brought my credit score up from 480 to the 812 it is now over the last ten years. It takes a lot of vigilance. Anything over a 720 FICO is generally considered “A credit” and will qualify for the lowest rate mortgages, which right now you can get close to 3.5% on a traditional 15 year fixed. Thanks to the collapsed housing market, there has never in any of our lifetimes been a better time to buy a house. I'd jump on it right now if I were you.

I’m baffled as to why you’d want your own truck. I don’t spend that much time on CAD, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you mention how great you have it and how you love the fact that when you’re not on the road, your time is completely your own. I think you’ve even alluded that those of us who own trucks are crazy for doing so. Again, I could be wrong, but I do have a pretty good memory, so something tells me I’m remembering correctly.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

He shows a knowledge that MOST companies' lease plans are ripoffs. That's miles ahead of the usual poster who asks if he should lease on with England or Prime... right? And he apparently is bringing a SHIPPER to the table that will pay YOU straight out... with you paying HIM! Truly an "unusual arrangement."

I’ve read the OP several times now and I don’t see anywhere where he says the “company” is a shipper. For some reason, you seem to assume that it’s a shipper, but it sounds to me like it’s a trucking company that he’d be leasing onto, and probably a smaller one, as the big ones won’t ever consider anything that is outside of their norm. I agree with you that he has a good start by understanding that fleece/purchase situations with carriers are to be avoided. After lurking on CAD for three years, if he didn’t have that figured out, he’d have to be blind or brain-dead. Part of my response was to try to explain to Joe why he will probably NOT find any takers on his offer. Then again, there are lots of good drivers who bought trucks only to find out that they are bad businessmen, so he might find one of those willing to do the deal with him. As the guy selling the truck, I’d have to trust that the “company” Joe has found will honor their commitment to pay me. I don’t trust ANY company out there. I’ve been screwed over, lied to and cheated by big ones and little ones. This is why, as a carrier, I like brokers over shipper direct freight. Brokers have bonds I can go after to get my receivables satisfied. A shipper I would have to sue. In business, folks screw each other on a regular basis because they know that if the amount is less than thirty thousand dollars, the expense of the legal action will take all the money they are owed, and those kinds of attorneys want paid $10k up front just to initiate the litigation. Oh, and you usually can’t recover attorney’s fees and court costs in that type of lawsuit.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Forgetting for the moment that the O.P didn't mention BUYING a truck on credit, but rather working a deal with someone who is no longer able to OPERATE the truck he "may" still be making payments on.... HOW can a lender loan money to a buyer who wants to be an O/O if the buyer is wanting to buy the truck to BECOME an O/O but has no experience as an O/O (in which case, he would already HAVE a truck?)

Hobo, you’re way smarter than that! If you are making payments in any way on any kind of property, you are buying on credit. The only situation where that doesn’t apply is if you are RENTING the truck. Clearly Joe isn’t looking to rent the truck. Lenders DO loan money to first time O/Os. The interest rates will be much higher, because the failure rate of the O/O will be much higher. With these types of loans, they still want you to have at least two years driving experience and prefer five or more. Then, you can expect to put ten percent down and pay 12% to 15% interest. This is why so many folks are willing to do a fleece / purchase with a CR England or a Swift. They don’t want to pay their dues but they are willing to pay nearly twice for the truck so they can have it now, as mgfg has already pointed out.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

What part of the O.P's post led you to conclude he was a "tin-horn?" Maybe he is. I'm not. 7 years is all I can boast of... but, I've had similar ideas.

I never stated that I thought he had no CDL driving experience. I think it is safe to say that he has never owned and run a truck before. If he had, then he obviously failed with it because he has to seek out alternative avenues to purchase this one. I’m very disappointed in you Hobo. You know, albeit not first-hand yet, that there is a huge difference between being a company driver and being an O/O. You would be a “tin-horn” just like Joe if you ever got your own truck. I have little doubt that you would do okay though, as you’ve demonstrated over the years that although you are politically misguided, you certainly are no dummy. In fact, I think I remember you stating or at least inferring somewhere that you have been a business owner in the past. If that is true, then you have a huge head start that most other newbie O/O don’t have when they buy their first truck. I’m going to guess that Joe has not been a business owner in the past. Since he doesn’t have any special advantage that will help him succeed, he would be wise to create an advantage for himself by cash-flowing his new adventure.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Cash Flow it? Sounds risky to me.

The fact that you think doing a business deal with cash is “risky” baffles me. I’m pretty much speechless at that statement.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

... you could maybe ask if anyone had a truck, for which they already HAD a maintenance account built up, that was not making any miles.... and might need a driver who would take a percentage of the load, AFTER savings accounts, for a percentage of the equity.

Sounds pretty much like he’d be a company driver except without any of the benefits that a big company can offer.

[golfhobo]

Musicman said:

I wasn't being literal in that statement and I didn't think the bulk of your chastisement was focused on me.

Okay, just a misunderstanding. You sounded defensive. I didn't MEAN to sound like I was chastising anyone... but, you know how most of these threads go. Something about McDonald's and such. lol. I just wanted Joe to get the benefit of you guys' vast knowledge... cuz, I was wondering about something like that myself at times.

Thanks to the collapsed housing market, there has never in any of our lifetimes been a better time to buy a house. I'd jump on it right now if I were you.

That's the way I've been seeing it too. Hence my "austerity" plan to pay off my credit card debt entirely by next month. This will be MY "independence day" come July 4th! For the first time in my life I will be debt free and have a net worth! I am WAY out of my "comfort zone." lol.

I’m baffled as to why you’d want your own truck. I don’t spend that much time on CAD, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you mention how great you have it and how you love the fact that when you’re not on the road, your time is completely your own. I think you’ve even alluded that those of us who own trucks are crazy for doing so. Again, I could be wrong, but I do have a pretty good memory, so something tells me I’m remembering correctly.

My memory's not so good anymore... but, I don't recall ever saying that. Probably called you CRAZY for something else! lol.

I DO have it good, and I do like being OFF when I'm OFF. I won't give that up easily to be an O/O if I ever make the jump. But, as you may know... I don't deal well with authority figures - especially if they are idiots. I've had neat little "niche" trucking jobs so far, and I'm afraid to make the jump to another carrier to go solo. Malakai has told me enough horror stories to make me stay where I am.

But, I see trucking as my last career. I will need to retire from this, and I want to be in the best possible shape when I do (financially and satisfaction wise.) I already see that I will probably have to drive until I'm 70 to be able to afford retirement. I'm 55 now and I would like to spend those last 10 years taking loads that I WANT to take, and making as much money as I can. I THINK I could be making about $20k/yr more if I were an O/O. In addition, I would like to HAVE my own truck when I retire, so that I could take a few loads now and then to bolster my retirement income and keep myself busy.

When I turn 60, I will have about 12 years experience as a driver, and I will have a better idea (hopefully) about whether the economy will support my venture. If so, I'd like to buy a power unit first and lease on to someone (like Landstar?) Maybe, buy a lowboy and a reefer as time goes by, so I can take whichever type of load comes up and pays the best.

When I retire at 70 (or maybe a bit earlier,) I will still have the truck and trailers and can work when I want to and hopefully without affecting my tax bracket or SSI benefits.

I’ve read the OP several times now and I don’t see anywhere where he says the “company” is a shipper. For some reason, you seem to assume that it’s a shipper, but it sounds to me like it’s a trucking company that he’d be leasing onto, and probably a smaller one, as the big ones won’t ever consider anything that is outside of their norm.

You are probably right. I think I read his post with a preconceived assumption of the type of deal he had and was looking for. But, either way... he says he has a "company" that will make sure the "owner" gets his truck payment (and possibly maintenence funds) BEFORE he gets his pay. Your info on the credibility of the two options has been well noted.

Hobo, you’re way smarter than that! If you are making payments in any way on any kind of property, you are buying on credit. The only situation where that doesn’t apply is if you are RENTING the truck. Clearly Joe isn’t looking to rent the truck.

I saw his proposal as more of a "rent to own" type of thing. On credit, sure... but not BANK credit. If I didn't have the down payment OR the maintenance account saved up, I'd be willing to let YOU have your 5% (or more) cut of the load (or interest on the loan,) as long as I got full credit for the truck payment. I would let YOU divert whatever percentage is normal to my maintenance account. IF there is anything left that somehow "exceeds" normal driver wages, I'd be making more than I am now... AND, be paying off a truck for myself.

Lenders DO loan money to first time O/Os. The interest rates will be much higher, because the failure rate of the O/O will be much higher. With these types of loans, they still want you to have at least two years driving experience and prefer five or more. Then, you can expect to put ten percent down and pay 12% to 15% interest. This is why so many folks are willing to do a fleece / purchase with a CR England or a Swift. They don’t want to pay their dues but they are willing to pay nearly twice for the truck so they can have it now, as mgfg has already pointed out.

I get it now. Thanks for the clarification. I misread your sentence. YOU put the emphasis on the credit RATE depending on O/O experience. I just saw the part about lenders NOT lending to inexperienced O/O's.

I apologize for sounding so dumb yesterday. I had accidentally left the T.V. on the Fox channel after watching the Memorial Day festivities. LOL!

I never stated that I thought he had no CDL driving experience. I think it is safe to say that he has never owned and run a truck before. If he had, then he obviously failed with it because he has to seek out alternative avenues to purchase this one. I’m very disappointed in you Hobo. You know, albeit not first-hand yet, that there is a huge difference between being a company driver and being an O/O. You would be a “tin-horn” just like Joe if you ever got your own truck.

You said:

...and new and naïve owner operators fresh off the turnip truck seem to be everybody’s favorite snack.

Again... the misunderstanding must have been MINE.

I have little doubt that you would do okay though, as you’ve demonstrated over the years that although you are politically misguided, you certainly are no dummy. In fact, I think I remember you stating or at least inferring somewhere that you have been a business owner in the past. If that is true, then you have a huge head start that most other newbie O/O don’t have when they buy their first truck. I’m going to guess that Joe has not been a business owner in the past.

I'll let that "political slam" slide by... as I would not like to see this thread moved to the Political forum. Ha ha...

Yes, I owned a business for about 10 years. It failed MOSTLY because I was undercapitalized... so, I know the value of having a maintenance account! I also know how hard it is to "cash flow" new equipment, personnel, etc. [as I understand the term.]

I also researched my business for quite some time before taking the plunge. There is no better "course" for this if one wants to be an O/O than to spend HOURS on this forum. I have not kept up with my studies of late... but, you can be sure that when I get close to making the jump, YOU guys will get tired of answering my questions! [I can see some of you heading for the EXITS already! lol.]

Since he doesn’t have any special advantage that will help him succeed, he would be wise to create an advantage for himself by cash-flowing his new adventure.
The fact that you think doing a business deal with cash is “risky” baffles me. I’m pretty much speechless at that statement.

Again... excuse my ignorance. I just don't/didn't understand what you mean by "cash flowing" the purchase of a truck. Please explain this further for me.

Sounds pretty much like he’d be a company driver except without any of the benefits that a big company can offer.

Not if he is "BUYING" the truck on time [out of the load receipts] from the owner. At least that is the way I read his first post.