[TruckinHax0r]

I just started driving about 7 months ago. A friend whom I met at the driving school I attended and I have both been hired at the same company. It's a place where the school basically places you and finishing out a year of slavery here will basically pay for our school. I'm sure it's a pretty common deal. Anyway, the two of us have kept in contact throughout the time we've been driving and have more recently been considering the idea of buying a truck and leasing into a company and running as a team. I'm pretty sure we can handle working/living together in the same truck, and we both need a lot more money than we are making here now, so staying with this company as a company driver is barely an option. We looked into the lease-purchase deals and that deal is awful beyond anything I could have even imagined. Can't imagine how anyone would really want to do that, but whatever.

So, here is basically where we stand: I have a house that nobody lives in that I have been offered $15,000 for. Yeah, it's a mess. I might be able to get closer to $20,000 but I don't know. I don't owe anything, so it's all cash anyway. My friend has excellent credit but (with current job) can't even afford his bills. We're pretty sure, anyway, that he could get a loan for a truck and I could use my cash to keep it rolling while we get started (and, if necessary, provide a down payment). It seems that with some/most of the companies you can lease into, the plates, permits, and insurance are all handled by the company and we would just pay a monthly/weekly fee for this. We like the idea of doing it this way because, prior to learning to drive a truck, we both ran businesses of our own and were trying to escape some of the headaches associated with doing that. It seems like the lease programs make it a little less of a PITA to run a "trucking company" by at least handling permits and scheduling loads and stuff. We do, however, have some concerns...

We were thinking that the best plan would be to get an older truck that we could pay off within the first 6-12 months. This would be something probably around $20,000 and would probably be 7-8 years old. We both like the Frightliner Classic but we really don't know enough about the trucks to be able to say what would be a good truck. Maybe someone here can give some feedback on this. We have also decided that we will be taking some basic tools with us and everything we need to change tires so that we can minimize the cost and downtime from breakdowns and blowouts. We are very concerned, however, about what the possible costs could come to keeping such an old truck rolling 5-6000 miles/week. The truck would almost certainly have close to, or over, a million miles. I guess the worst case scenario is that the engine actually blows up and we have to get it rebuilt. How likely is that, and what does it cost? Do you guys think it would be safe to start driving an old truck like that all those miles with only $10-15,000 to keep it on the road? What would be a reasonable average to assume we might spend on a weekly/monthly basis on maintenance?

We're also expecting that there are probably some other expenses that we will be expected to cover ourselves, but that aren't advertised by these companies you can lease with. Perhaps someone who has done this could share with me what the unexpected, or even expected, costs they ended up getting stuck with?

In addition to all of that, we haven't even decided what company we would want to lease to. I know that some of them do dispatching similar to what we are used to as company drivers, most let you turn down a load and get another I think, and some have a load board you can use to view what's available in the area and pick what you want. I would think the latter would be the most logical thing to look for. It would allow us to make a decision based on all of the facts rather than "this one isn't TOO bad, and who knows what they will give us next..."

Absolutely any feedback of any kind on the subject would be appreciated. There is no way we will move forward without having some kind of realistic idea about what our expenses will be, and this seems to be a good place to get useful feedback from experienced drivers and owner operators.

Thanks in advance.

[no_worries]

Not a good plan, in my opinion. Running a $20,000 truck off the lot in a normal team operation would be a nightmare. You have no idea how it's been maintained, nor what problems it will present. Remember, in a standard team operation you make your money by turning double the miles. The flip-side is that downtime is twice as expensive. Plus, you would be jumping into this without having firsthand knowledge of how the two of you function as a team. You're committing cash and he's staking his future credit on an unproven arrangement.

Why not team as company drivers first? Experienced teams command good rates right now. You're making slave wages because the company took care of your training. Not the best situation but you do what you have to. Anyway, with a year of experience you can hook up with Schneider, split a $10,000 sign-on bonus, and make around $.45-.50/mile. When you do a true apples to apples comparison (most don't because truckers aren't accountants) your compensation as O/O's vs. company drivers in a standard team operation won't be any better and most times is less. There are several other companies offering $5000-$7500 per team bonuses as well with pay in the same neighborhood.

Try it out and get some miles under you belts together. You'll make the same money and if you decide that you want to go into business together, that opportunity will be there anytime you're ready.

[Luzon]

Originally Posted by no_worries

Not a good plan, in my opinion. Running a $20,000 truck off the lot in a normal team operation would be a nightmare. You have no idea how it's been maintained, nor what problems it will present. Remember, in a standard team operation you make your money by turning double the miles. The flip-side is that downtime is twice as expensive. Plus, you would be jumping into this without having firsthand knowledge of how the two of you function as a team. You're committing cash and he's staking his future credit on an unproven arrangement.

Why not team as company drivers first? Experienced teams command good rates right now. You're making slave wages because the company took care of your training. Not the best situation but you do what you have to. Anyway, with a year of experience you can hook up with Schneider, split a $10,000 sign-on bonus, and make around $.45-.50/mile. When you do a true apples to apples comparison (most don't because truckers aren't accountants) your compensation as O/O's vs. company drivers in a standard team operation won't be any better and most times is less. There are several other companies offering $5000-$7500 per team bonuses as well with pay in the same neighborhood.

Try it out and get some miles under you belts together. You'll make the same money and if you decide that you want to go into business together, that opportunity will be there anytime you're ready.

I totally agree with No_worries. I had almost the exact situation that you describe. Met someone in CDL school, stayed in touch, really enjoyed bs'ing with this guy and so we decided to try teaming as company drivers after about 7 or 8 months driving. Long story short we leave with our first load from Lakeland, FL to Dallas, No problems. Then, we pick up a load out of Dallas going to Colorado and leave Dallas that evening, he starts off driving because "he likes driving at night" and we get about 100 miles or so up 287 headed towards Amarillo and he runs off the road onto the rumble strips. I already am having a very hard time trying to get any sleep with the truck moving and when this happens I sit straight up, wide awake. He "just got too close to the edge of the road". I lie back down and about 10 minutes later the same thing happens. Another excuse, then about 10 minutes later it happens again. Finally after the 4th time and him starting to blame it on the truck I tell him to pull into the Walmart and take a nap. From that point on I couldn't sleep for ****. We teamed for a month and I didn't sleep for the entire time other than cat naps or if we were stopped.

Get to know your co-drver first before you drop $$ on a truck.

[Ridge Runner]

Like the other two have said..... bad plan. Try going as a company team first.

[allan5oh]

Let me first to say, welcome to CAD and to the owner/operator forum.

Originally Posted by TruckinHax0r

I'm sure it's a pretty common deal. Anyway, the two of us have kept in contact throughout the time we've been driving and have more recently been considering the idea of buying a truck and leasing into a company and running as a team.

I've heard this story many times, and it's almost always a bad idea. One step at a time. Personally I'd much rather have you buy a truck and figure everything out, then be company team drivers.

We looked into the lease-purchase deals and that deal is awful beyond anything I could have even imagined. Can't imagine how anyone would really want to do that, but whatever.

This instantly earns you points with us veterans on the site. Almost all lease purchase deals are either simple scams or slave labor. There's very few that really have the driver in mind.

So, here is basically where we stand: I have a house that nobody lives in that I have been offered $15,000 for. Yeah, it's a mess. I might be able to get closer to $20,000 but I don't know. I don't owe anything, so it's all cash anyway.

Nothing wrong with living in your truck.

My friend has excellent credit but (with current job) can't even afford his bills.

Full stop. Are you doing this as a favor to your friend? How is your credit?

We're pretty sure, anyway, that he could get a loan for a truck and I could use my cash to keep it rolling while we get started (and, if necessary, provide a down payment).

Second full stop, having two inexperienced drivers never mind owner operators enter a partnership is almost always a bad idea.

It seems that with some/most of the companies you can lease into, the plates, permits, and insurance are all handled by the company and we would just pay a monthly/weekly fee for this. We like the idea of doing it this way because, prior to learning to drive a truck, we both ran businesses of our own and were trying to escape some of the headaches associated with doing that.

Red flag #3. If you're not willing to do paperwork, please don't be an owner/operator.

It seems like the lease programs make it a little less of a PITA to run a "trucking company" by at least handling permits and scheduling loads and stuff. We do, however, have some concerns...

Are you talking about lease purchase or leasing on to a carrier? Both are vastly different.

We were thinking that the best plan would be to get an older truck that we could pay off within the first 6-12 months. This would be something probably around $20,000 and would probably be 7-8 years old.

An excellent first truck. Even if you get a loan at say 12% it's no big deal because you'll have it paid off within a year.

We both like the Frightliner Classic but we really don't know enough about the trucks to be able to say what would be a good truck. Maybe someone here can give some feedback on this.

Head to a dealership and have a peek, they may even let you take a few test drives. Don't sign anything. Just say you've never driven x brand truck, and you want to give it a shot.

We have also decided that we will be taking some basic tools with us and everything we need to change tires so that we can minimize the cost and downtime from breakdowns and blowouts.

Basic tools are a minimum. A few spare parts, lots of spare fluids and filters. Changing tires on the road? Not a good idea as it exposes yourself to liability. Plus you have to carry around a tire/wheel. At the very least you should understand how to grease the truck, change lights, and fix minor wiring. Keeping the fluids up and belts changed as well. Knowing how to change the alternator is a must as well.

We are very concerned, however, about what the possible costs could come to keeping such an old truck rolling 5-6000 miles/week. The truck would almost certainly have close to, or over, a million miles.

It can certainly be done. However it will be heavily influenced by what individual truck you buy, not the make or the model.

I guess the worst case scenario is that the engine actually blows up and we have to get it rebuilt. How likely is that, and what does it cost?

At the cheapest probably 10k, at the most expensive around 25k.

Do you guys think it would be safe to start driving an old truck like that all those miles with only $10-15,000 to keep it on the road?

For a truck in that price range I'd expect to have to spend about 5k just to get it up to minimum requirements.

What would be a reasonable average to assume we might spend on a weekly/monthly basis on maintenance?

Probably 10-12 CPM(cents per mile) to start for a year or two.

We're also expecting that there are probably some other expenses that we will be expected to cover ourselves, but that aren't advertised by these companies you can lease with. Perhaps someone who has done this could share with me what the unexpected, or even expected, costs they ended up getting stuck with?

It is all in the contract that you sign.

In addition to all of that, we haven't even decided what company we would want to lease to. I know that some of them do dispatching similar to what we are used to as company drivers, most let you turn down a load and get another I think, and some have a load board you can use to view what's available in the area and pick what you want. I would think the latter would be the most logical thing to look for. It would allow us to make a decision based on all of the facts rather than "this one isn't TOO bad, and who knows what they will give us next..."

There's a huge variation of dispatch available to owner/operators. From forced dispatch to load boards with absolutely no dispatch (landstar).

Absolutely any feedback of any kind on the subject would be appreciated. There is no way we will move forward without having some kind of realistic idea about what our expenses will be, and this seems to be a good place to get useful feedback from experienced drivers and owner operators.

Thanks in advance.

1) Only one person owns the equipment and keeps the financials. Other person is simply a paid driver. Keep it separate.

2) Only one thing at a time, buy a truck or run team. Not both.

3) Research and understand variable vs. fixed cost

4) Research lots of lease agreements and which company you would want to lease onto

[GMAN]

I agree about running as a company team before going into business together. I know some who have made it work and others who were ready to kill one another after a week in the truck. If you run together as a team first, then you will see how you work and live together. I could never run as a team. Some people love it. If you run as a company team for at least 6 months to a year then you should get a good idea of how well you work together. Just because you have become good friends doesn't necessarily mean that you will work well together in a truck. Buying a truck is a big step. I would slow down a bit before jumping into a truck.

There are good trucks around for $20,000. If you check them out there is no reason that you should not get good service out of it. When you run team the wheels should nearly always be turning. You need something that is dependable. That doesn't necessarily mean that you need to buy a new truck, either. When you drive team you will spend twice as much on maintenance as you will driving solo because you are driving twice as many miles. You can always start with a cheaper truck while you save your money and let the business pay for a newer truck. It is important to check out a truck and try to get a history before committing. More important than the miles is what has been done to the truck and how it has been maintained. I bought a truck a few years ago for less than $21,000 that had a $18,000 over haul with less than 100,000 miles on the engine. You can find good buys, but it takes time and effort. There is also a lot of junk around, even with the newer trucks. Just because a truck has low miles and is newer doesn't necessarily mean that it is a good truck. I have known of trucks that have had to have an over haul with 150,000 miles on them. I have also known of some who have had well over 1 million miles and still running strong. If a truck has been well maintained there is no reason to expect that you can't get a lot of use from it.

Before going into business with someone I would want to know a lot about how they handle themselves and how that they handle responsibility. I have a good friend who has tried to get me to go into business with him for years. We are good friends, but he and I handle things differently. He is not as responsible when it comes to business matters. He is more of a fly by the seat of your pants guy. I like to plan things out more when it comes to business. At one time I seriously considered going into business with him. I don't think that our friendship would survive being in business together. Our philosophies are too different. You may find that to be the case with your friend. On the other hand you could find that you will work well together. You don't want to be stuck in a truck with someone who is a slob and you are a neat freak. It would likely drive you both nuts.

If you do decide to proceed with your partnership then you need to discuss the type of operation you want. Some people prefer having a dispatcher and others like to find their own loads. There are carriers for both. Another consideration is whether you want to be paid percentage or mileage. You should talk with a lot of owner operators with carriers who run teams. If the partnership doesn't work out then perhaps you could both buy your own truck and lease to the same carrier. I have another friend who also runs his authority. We stay in touch daily. You don't have to go into business to be good friends.

[TruckinHax0r]

Thanks for the feedback from everyone. We had pretty much came to the same conclusions on a lot of this stuff. We hadn't really thought about driving teams for a company, I think because we are both more interested in buying our own truck(s). It's something to consider, but it presents other problems that would probably make it impractical. I'm looking into other companies to drive for, considering trying to get a truck financed on my own but my credit isn't very good and I refuse to let myself get raped with a bad financing deal. I may end up just saving up and paying cash for a cheap truck in the end. I just have to go talk to someone at the bank and find out what my options are there.

I have tried going into business with other people in the past and learned that there were unexpected problems, so you all made a good point about trying to run as a team for a company first. It seems like good advice.

Both of us ran our own business for many years prior to getting into driving a truck, though, so we are both familiar with the kinds of things that have to be done to make it work. While this makes it seem like a better possiblity for working out, I can also see where it might cause some additional problems. Having been many years (other than the current job) since either of us worked for anyone else and did everything in our own way could certainly cause some kinds of disagreements I'm sure.

Both of us also understand, of course, that running as an owner operator would mean more paperwork and more work in general. What I was referring to was the difference between running our own authority and running for a company as an owner operator. It seems that it reduces the amount of extra work quite a bit not having to deal with permits, insurance, etc directly.

Right now we are both looking into possibly getting our own trucks and running solo first, and the idea of running as a team still as a possibility but probably not until after a while. So, on that subject, any feedback on how to find a good truck for around $20,000? Is it possible to get maintenance records and stuff on these old trucks, something like that carfax thing maybe? What's the best way to find a *good* mechanic to look it over?

[TruckinHax0r]

Originally Posted by allan5oh

Let me first to say, welcome to CAD and to the owner/operator forum.

Thanks. I'm enjoying reading various threads on here and gathering information, and kicking myself in the ass repeatedly for not doing it earlier.

I've heard this story many times, and it's almost always a bad idea. One step at a time. Personally I'd much rather have you buy a truck and figure everything out, then be company team drivers.

You mean that you think it would be better to get a truck and run solo before trying to run teams with someone, correct?

This instantly earns you points with us veterans on the site. Almost all lease purchase deals are either simple scams or slave labor. There's very few that really have the driver in mind.

Simple arithmetic is all it was. I'm honestly surprised that they get anyone to go along with these...

Nothing wrong with living in your truck.

Haha, I wouldn't have to live in my truck. I have 3 houses but my wife and kids (and me, when I'm home) live in one, and my mother and nephew live in another. I just pay taxes on the third one for no good reason...

Full stop. Are you doing this as a favor to your friend? How is your credit?

Not really. It benifits him more in that he could likely afford all of his bills, and benifits me in that I might make enough money to do something useful with. My credit sucks. I've bought pretty much everything I own either with cash or someone else's credit.

Are you talking about lease purchase or leasing on to a carrier? Both are vastly different.

Was talking about leasing into a carrier. The lease purchase programs are bull****. I would never...

Probably 10-12 CPM(cents per mile) to start for a year or two.

What do you mean "for a year or two"? Would everyone else agree that this is a reasonable estimate for a maintenance budget?

It is all in the contract that you sign.

Of course it is. I was more looking for maybe something along the lines of "they like to stick you with ___," or "look out for ___". Nothing could replace the act of carefully reading any contract, though, so good point.

There's a huge variation of dispatch available to owner/operators. From forced dispatch to load boards with absolutely no dispatch (landstar).

Seems to me that load boards are better. I'd rather see what's available and stick myself with a load that isn't very good than not know if there's anything better and just take it to avoid something worse being thrown at me. I see the name Landstar on these forums a lot. I guess quite a few of you use them. They aren't the only company that uses load boards, are they? Doesn't seem likely, though I haven't checked a lot of places out yet.

1) Only one person owns the equipment and keeps the financials. Other person is simply a paid driver. Keep it separate.
2) Only one thing at a time, buy a truck or run team. Not both.
3) Research and understand variable vs. fixed cost
4) Research lots of lease agreements and which company you would want to lease onto

#2 seems to be pretty much unanimous.

Thanks for the advice.