[mark777]

Hey thanks guys. Thats what I was thinking. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't killing his dream for nothing. To me it seems like common sense. Lke I said he's a great guy, actually smart bookwise (Loves to read science, history books/mags etc...) , but not great on business or common sense sometime. I'm trying to get him to focus on $25-3000 max. His wife would take care of the bookeeping end etc... (thank God). As far as the home equity thing on $90,000, my math came out to the same figures as yours. That truck would be long gone before he ever finished paying the debt. He would never get out from it. Defenitely caught up in the chrome.

Ig I get him to focus on cheaper truck, should he focus only on 100% o/o companies, or are companies with company driver mix ok. I see the point on not running on per mile pay. I also see the companies listed above who work on mileage. Any other companies great for o/o, and more importantly any specific ones he should stay away from? By the way, to answer earlier question he is looking to pull van.

Another quick question. Landstar says no DOT reportable preventable accicents. His one and only preventable (was within last 8-10 months) was reported by his company. No police reports/tickets, no property damage other than corner of trailer. Is this considered a DOT preventable? Hey thanks, I really apppreciate all your advice. I want to stop my brother from making this what I thought was a bad decision.

[GMAN]

Just because someone is book smart doesn't necessarily mean that they are a good businessman. I have known some good businessmen over the years who had minimal formal education. They just had a knack for business. It is good of you to try and look after your brothers interest. Van rates are really bad right now. I would check with several of the better known van pulling carriers. Landstar, CRST, Universal Am Can, Perkins, Economy Transport are a few who come to mind that pay percentage and that I am familiar. I believe all of them pay percentage and do a lot of drop and hook. As I said, rates are down with everyone. He will likely be hauling for not much more than $1/mile from what I have been seeing. That is after the carrier gets their cut. Once freight picks up rates should begin to rise and those who work on percentage should do much better than those on mileage. Besides, if a carrier pays on all miles the owner operator will probably do more sitting than on percentage. It costs the carrier nothing to run a percentage truck, other than the cost of insurance.

[LOAD IT]

Mark777, You seem like an intelligent guy, but I sense a little sibling rivalry here. So I ask..... What advice have you given your brother that could help him reach his goal of becoming an O/O? As Gman said, he has to be a good businessman and all good businessmen have advisors. You seem to be the guy giving the advice and 3 heads (including his wife) are better than 1. Refinancing the home and buying a $93K truck is definitely a recipe for disaster. For the last 15 years I have heard people say, "now is not the time to buy a truck" but trucks keep moving the economy everyday. I really think those people dont want to see you succeed in trucking and do something that they couldnt or didnt.

[chris1]

Originally Posted by LOAD IT

Mark777, For the last 15 years I have heard people say, "now is not the time to buy a truck" but trucks keep moving the economy everyday. I really think those people dont want to see you succeed in trucking and do something that they couldnt or didnt.

You hit it on the head. Lot's of advice is given by those struggling or failed. Of course there advice is to do exactly what they did.

[b00m]

Times are tough and if you don't have a lot of business common sense, you can get out of this business in a second.Freight volumes are low or not even existent in some parts of the country.I have known at least 5 people this month they deadheaded empty from the east coast- detroit area back to the west so they can catch another load.Fuel and other truck costs are high, so if you don't know what you are doing,don't get into it.The prospects of loosing are quite high.

[Heavy Duty]

Originally Posted by LOAD IT

Mark777, You seem like an intelligent guy, but I sense a little sibling rivalry here. So I ask..... What advice have you given your brother that could help him reach his goal of becoming an O/O? As Gman said, he has to be a good businessman and all good businessmen have advisors. You seem to be the guy giving the advice and 3 heads (including his wife) are better than 1. Refinancing the home and buying a $93K truck is definitely a recipe for disaster. For the last 15 years I have heard people say, "now is not the time to buy a truck" but trucks keep moving the economy everyday. I really think those people dont want to see you succeed in trucking and do something that they couldnt or didnt.

I have heard now is not the time to buy for 35 years, but now is not the best of times. Mortgaging your home to buy a truck is STUPID. If the truck will not pay for it's self under normal financing then something is wrong. Everyone thinks no or low truck payments are the answer to their problems. Most get behind because of insurance, taxes and getting screwed over by repair shops, they take the truck in and say fix it without a clue what is going on. If your hauling cheap van freight there is no room for error.

Buy a good low cost truck with 20 to 30% down, find a good company and a good repair shop then if things go south you still have a place to live. Comp and collision insurance cost about one half on the open market that buying from the company you lease to and Peterbilt charges about $120 a hour to change parts on your truck and hope they guessed right and changed the right ones. Driving is the easy part.

With a higher than 50% failure rate I wouldn't bet the house. I could care less if someone comes into trucking and succeeds, I do care if they try, fail, and screw up their home and family.

[mark777]

Hey load it, sibling rivalry?! sibling rivalry?! Really? are you serious? If it WAS sibling rivalry I would be encouraging him to put up his house and buy a $90,000+ truck, knowing he's not looking to run hard or stay out just so I could watch him fail, lose his nice home and break up his beautiful family and see him become miserable. If it were sibling rivalry I would of pat him on the back and bought him the pen myself to sign the contracts. It's not sibling rivalry. He's my brother I care about him. I'm not trying to stop him from being O/O. I'm trying to help him be successful at it and enjoy it instead of dooming himself to failure. Thats why I asked what are the companies that are highly recommended for O/O, and probably even more importantly which ones to avoid. I wanted to see him with the best company and to avoid the bad ones at the very least. His plan sounded like a plan for disaster but I'm not an expert by any means, thats why I came to you guys for practical advice. He even asked me to look into all this for him since he's not into computers and on the road.

You asked what I am doing to help him instead of stopping him? If you read my thread I already said I told him that I thought he should cap his truck purchase at $30,000 max. I told him I would not mortgage the house. I know how he would like to run when on the road (He doesn't sit at truck stops-he runs his load but I know he is looking for frequent home time/no night driving, etc...), so i told him that he may not necessarily make MORE money than a company driver- maybe even slightly less, but he has to factor in the freedom he would have and that may be worth it to him. So sibling rivalry, no. Am I trying to stop him from making what I thought was a very bad purchase -yes. I wanted to make sure I wasn't giving him bad advice when i was stearing him away from a $90,000 truck financed by his house for 20 or so years.

I apologize for the long rant, but the hint that this was sibling rivalry or I was crushing his dream really offended me. He's my brother and I'll always go out of my way for him and look out for him. If you read my thread, I wasn't stopping him from O/O, I was stopping him from the 90,000 dollare truck purchase. I also wanted to see if he had a point that with a new truck there are less maintenance problems so extra $$ is worth it. I want to make sure I'm not giving him wrong advice. Hey thanks to all for sharing your expertise and insight. Thats all I was looking for. By the way, I read about mileage vs. percentage, but are there any specific companies for O/O to stay away from?

By the way I'm not slamming him or a rivalry thing, its true he's not the smartest in street sense but he is really smart bookwise. I'm the opposite - I almost failed 3rd grade and barely graduated from high school. So while I may be more street smart, academically I'm an idiot. We both joke and tease each other about our weeknesses, but we help cover each others weeknesses.

[GMAN]

I would not lease a truck to any carrier who paid mileage unless it was a very high rate. I would also not want to associate myself with any of the major lease purchase carriers. Most of them also pay mileage. And most of those carriers who pay mileage do so at around $0.80-0.92/mile plus fsc. There are two reasons. First, you are not necessarily free to travel when and where you want since most of these carriers pay for all miles. They are usually not willing to pay for miles you choose to run that do not involve going to pick up a load. Second, there is a greater opportunity to make more money when you lease to a carrier who pays percentage. Deadhead miles are not usually paid by a percentage carrier, but the generally higher rates compensate for the added miles if you work smart. It takes more effort to make the higher dollars with a percentage carrier. An owner operator can make more or less money depending on how well he manages his business. If he takes cheap freight he could actually make as little or less than had he leased to a mileage carrier.

There is no one carrier fits all. There are subtle differences between carriers. There could be major differences between some of them. If you are looking for a carrier I would suggest that you talk to owner operators at truck stops and see how they like their carriers. Make a list of those things that are most important to you and try to match those needs to a carrier. For instance, some are better at helping you get home than others. It is difficult for most owner operators and drivers to get home every weekend. I have a friend who manages to do that, but he is a rarity.

[LOAD IT]

Originally Posted by mark777

Hey load it, sibling rivalry?! sibling rivalry?! Really? are you serious? If it WAS sibling rivalry I would be encouraging him to put up his house and buy a $90,000+ truck, knowing he's not looking to run hard or stay out just so I could watch him fail, lose his nice home and break up his beautiful family and see him become miserable. If it were sibling rivalry I would of pat him on the back and bought him the pen myself to sign the contracts. It's not sibling rivalry. He's my brother I care about him. I'm not trying to stop him from being O/O. I'm trying to help him be successful at it and enjoy it instead of dooming himself to failure. Thats why I asked what are the companies that are highly recommended for O/O, and probably even more importantly which ones to avoid. I wanted to see him with the best company and to avoid the bad ones at the very least. His plan sounded like a plan for disaster but I'm not an expert by any means, thats why I came to you guys for practical advice. He even asked me to look into all this for him since he's not into computers and on the road.

You asked what I am doing to help him instead of stopping him? If you read my thread I already said I told him that I thought he should cap his truck purchase at $30,000 max. I told him I would not mortgage the house. I know how he would like to run when on the road (He doesn't sit at truck stops-he runs his load but I know he is looking for frequent home time/no night driving, etc...), so i told him that he may not necessarily make MORE money than a company driver- maybe even slightly less, but he has to factor in the freedom he would have and that may be worth it to him. So sibling rivalry, no. Am I trying to stop him from making what I thought was a very bad purchase -yes. I wanted to make sure I wasn't giving him bad advice when i was stearing him away from a $90,000 truck financed by his house for 20 or so years.

I apologize for the long rant, but the hint that this was sibling rivalry or I was crushing his dream really offended me. He's my brother and I'll always go out of my way for him and look out for him. If you read my thread, I wasn't stopping him from O/O, I was stopping him from the 90,000 dollare truck purchase. I also wanted to see if he had a point that with a new truck there are less maintenance problems so extra $$ is worth it. I want to make sure I'm not giving him wrong advice. Hey thanks to all for sharing your expertise and insight. Thats all I was looking for. By the way, I read about mileage vs. percentage, but are there any specific companies for O/O to stay away from?

By the way I'm not slamming him or a rivalry thing, its true he's not the smartest in street sense but he is really smart bookwise. I'm the opposite - I almost failed 3rd grade and barely graduated from high school. So while I may be more street smart, academically I'm an idiot. We both joke and tease each other about our weeknesses, but we help cover each others weeknesses.

Mark,

I think that its great that you are going to help your brother, and I threw in the sibling rivalry thing to stir the pot. Good Luck with the venture and I know you guys will make it happen.