Actually, not all workers deserve the pay these unions get for them. Some work and some don't care. I always dread going to a union plant because it always seems to take longer for me to get in and out of the plant. If I go to a non union facility they tend to move faster and get me out much faster. Not all workers deserve the same pay. That is why I support performance pay. Those who work hard earn the most money. Those who slack off make the lower wages.

 

Mackman got it 100% correct when he said it wasn't just union shops that closed up and left or went out of business. I've never bought another pair of Levi's ever after they closed up shop here and went to China, and I happen to like China a lot. They planned to do so, and then Tienanmen Square happened. So they waited a little while till it faded from memory, and then closed up shop here screwing every under paid worker over here. Even if every worker in this country worked for minimum wage, and had no benefits it would still be $7.25, and they aren't working for even close to that in many places. In fact, some Chinese plants have lost jobs because of their higher wage costs than some neighboring countries even.

"They continue to want more money and benefits for less effort." GMAN

You'll be happy to know that the non-union sweatshop workers at shoe factories in Vietnam and Indonesia periodically go out on strike because they also want more pay for less effort. By that they mean not having to work countless hours of overtime for free, and earning a wage which barely supports a person let alone a family (People always counter this by saying they earn more than the minimum wage there. I would love to see these people live in Jakarta for that wage, and tell me it is still a good deal for them.

Find me anyone anywhere no matter what they get paid that doesn't want to be paid more for what they do union or not.

 

GMAN....While that sounds good, and most people would agree with you....it just doesn't work, and never will. There isn't a perfect pay system or accounting system despite what some people want you to believe. Don't take my word for it, research it and you'll see this.

 

According to who? You? Obviously the companies disagree, since they are the ones paying the wages.

You are comparing apples and oranges. No two facilities, union or not, are the same. You say it ALWAYS seems to take longer at a union facility. I find it hard to believe that simply because a facility is union, that it takes you longer. I've been to union facilities and gotten out lightning quick. I've been to non-union facilities, and waited all day. You see what you want to see.

Right. That's not the way things happen in the real world though.

 

And guess what happens when "those who work harder" produce more under the performance pay system?

The companies have a funny habit of reducing the rate because management feels those "hard workers" are making too much money, hence they cut the rate for all the workers. Kinda like a donkey with a carrot on a stick out in front of it. So then the "hard workers" speed up some more, sometimes at the risk of endangering their physical and mental health.

Make no mistake, I've never been lazy, as a matter of fact, I've been told many times to slow down and work at a normal pace, both on union and non union jobs.

A fair days pay for a fair days work is all anyone can ask for, unfortunately many times these days people are forced to work harder & faster for no real monetary reward, no health coverage, no dental coverage, no vision coverage and no pension plan.

Worker at union jobs receive higher wages, health coverage, dental coverage, vision coverage and a pension plan.

If given the choice between those 2 scenarios, which would you choose?

Seems like a no brainer to me.

.

 

"kettle" and "black" .... those words seem to come to mind.......(sorry, couldn't help myself) =)

 

That is exactly how things work in the real world. When a worker is a member of a union, supervisors have told me that it is very difficult to get rid of a non productive worker. The union protects them.

 

If the company has written policy of what the production expectations are, then it isn't "very difficult" to get rid of a union or non-union working. It creates just cause.

 

I believe that people should be paid what they are worth. I think that production can work in most situations. I worked in a factory while in high school. I operated a machine that made yarn for carpet. Starting out we were paid minimum wage plus production. If we exceeded production we were paid a higher wage. I usually made production. This was a non union company. I made as much as those who had been there for 16 years. I have always been ambitious and worked hard. I am not going to say that production will work in every situation, but it could work in MOST jobs. Forklift operators could be paid a flat rate for each truck they load. That could also work for crane operators in steel plants. I doubt that you would wait very long to get loaded or unloaded if they were paid for each truck. I also don't think that drivers would be sitting around twiddling their thumbs while these loaders were sitting around talking.

Accounting is basically the same no matter what the industry. There are some idiosyncrasies within some industries, but the basics remain the same.

 

If truckers want to know how to strike effectively you need look no further than France. When they decide they want better pay they get it!!

They shut the country down for a week, block all ferry ports and border crossings into the country until they get a negotiation to their liking. Trucking in France is a well respected profession and well paid, a testament to the fact that you teach others how to treat you.

Obviously France is geographically different from the US and their methods may not work here but they have done it regularly there successfully.