[SickRick]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

Okay, had to dig up a blast from the past.

Was on another trucker website, and caught a post that some guy said,

Now, i know this could really be anybody, but this member joined in 2007 but only has 10 or so posts.

When asked about what happened, he says Feyh wasn't driving too fast for conditions, and he did not fall asleep at the wheel. He felt the trailer start to 'fishtail', and was talking to Feyh to help him, but he went into a panic and lost control.

My question is, how, if you are in control of the truck, not driving too fast, can the trailer just start to fishtail, UNLESS you just happen to have made some sudden movement (a jerk) of the steering wheel? would that cause it??

Now granted, this guy could be anybody, just wanted to clear this up.

If this is the same incident - running through standing water (as was quoted in that incident), might have cause the trailer wheels only to hydroplane (and lose traction with the road). At that point, gravity, momentum and inertia take over - and the jackknife begins. Any ONE WHEEL probably wouldn't do it - all 8 tandems on a trailer would. Same effect as locking the tandems up. If the tires are not in contact with the road and moving at the same speed as the rest of the vehicle - traction is lost, and the wheels that don't have it try to "catch up to" the ones that DO.

If this guy was just tooling along at highway speeds, was unaware of the risk of hydroplane in standing water (even less than an inch of it - regardless of the weight of the vehicle) and all of a sudden his trailer tandems lost traction (for no apparent reason - inexperienced driver) - freaking out and losing control in a slipped-second situation is a likely result. Once the jackknife reaches the "point of no return" - you become a PASSENGER - not a driver - and you're just along for the ride.

The difference in experience and inexperience - COULD have made the difference between REGAINING control of the fishtailing wheels (come OFF the fuel pedal) and LOSING control of the entire rig - which is apparently what happened (from what I've read here)...

Rick

edit: I'm going to END UP with one of these companies for training MYSELF, in the very near future. Unless your "daddy" owns a trucking company, and you've been doing this since you could WALK - EVERYONE has to start out SOMEWHERE. While Swift seems to catch the most CRAPOLA of all the "newbie factories" - I've YET TO SEE ANYONE suggest which companies are MORE DESIRABLE for us newbs to try and get our first jobs at, in order to GET THIS VITAL TRAINING. This IS the "New Drivers Get Help Here" forum - be nice if we actually GOT SOME on this topic - instead of just watching all the "Super Truckers" trying to troll each other...

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

Okay, had to dig up a blast from the past.

Was on another trucker website, and caught a post that some guy said,

Now, i know this could really be anybody, but this member joined in 2007 but only has 10 or so posts.

When asked about what happened, he says Feyh wasn't driving too fast for conditions, and he did not fall asleep at the wheel. He felt the trailer start to 'fishtail', and was talking to Feyh to help him, but he went into a panic and lost control.

My question is, how, if you are in control of the truck, not driving too fast, can the trailer just start to fishtail, UNLESS you just happen to have made some sudden movement (a jerk) of the steering wheel? would that cause it??

Now granted, this guy could be anybody, just wanted to clear this up.

... I drove for Swift till last Nov when my student was killed while he was driving down I5 in Washington. I was doing paperwork in the back and was injured. Still on disability to this day but the Swift people here could not of been better to me or my students family. And no, in WA state, it's a no fault state; when your hurt on the job, so they were not worried about a suit being filed...."

Washington State is a "No Fault" state, as pertains to automobile accidents.
When it comes to "On the job injury" that is a whole new arena!

I know of several people whom were seriously injured on the job, doing manufacturing work, as well as numerous truck driver's. Most sued their employer, after being released to return to work. I know one guy who got $385,000 (after lawyer fees), for the hand he lost at work, on top of all the insurance money.
I know another guy, a truck driver, who got $45,000 for a broken rotator-cuff, when he slipped on ice and broke it, then the company insisted he drive the truck back to the terminal so they could take him to the medical clinic, instead of sending someone to pick him and his truck up.
That one was personal, because he was my "truck" partner. He drove dayshift, I drove night shift, on the same truck, 4 days a week. His wife was insistant on suing, because of the delay in getting treatment for his shoulder. I didn't blame them one bit. Eventually that situation plus several others, forced the company to release the "Truck Boss". :clap:

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

Okay, had to dig up a blast from the past.

Was on another trucker website, and caught a post that some guy said,

Now, i know this could really be anybody, but this member joined in 2007 but only has 10 or so posts.

When asked about what happened, he says Feyh wasn't driving too fast for conditions, and he did not fall asleep at the wheel. He felt the trailer start to 'fishtail', and was talking to Feyh to help him, but he went into a panic and lost control.

My question is, how, if you are in control of the truck, not driving too fast, can the trailer just start to fishtail, UNLESS you just happen to have made some sudden movement (a jerk) of the steering wheel? would that cause it??

Now granted, this guy could be anybody, just wanted to clear this up.

First of all, there is no minimum speed when it comes to DRIVING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. And, it does not simply mean the condition of the road, but also includes the condition of the vehicle, visibillity, the ability of the driver, and even the "temperament" of the driver, and any combination of all of them. The fact that he lost control points to the fact that he was going to fast.

Another condition that was not mentioned is the surface of the road. Was it recently resurfaced? Was the blacktop just a couple of weeks old? Even a hard rain on fresh blacktop can be very serious because of the oil that seeps up from in the asphalt. Water standing on the road, or a wet road does not mean there was not a film of oil between, and it gets very slick. Road conditions can change like someone drew a curtain across the road. And, it can last for only about 100 feet, or less, but for the conditions in that area, speeds that are fine before and after are too fast.

In Tulsa, OK, an ambulance hit a patch of fresh blacktop about 100 feet long, in drizzling rain, lost control, hit the concrete barrier in the median, and rolled over, with a patient inside. At that point, it was the only accident that driver had ever had in his life. His speed was fine until he hit the new patch. At that point, it became TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS.

So, when this guy is saying the trainee was not going too fast for conditions, I have to disagree with him. He may have been doing fine for the rest of the road, but for that area, it was too fast. And, if the trainer was not able to recognize that, he should not be a trainer.

There can be patches of road where 2 mph is too fast for the condition of that small stretch of road.

[Kevin0915]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

First of all, there is no minimum speed when it comes to DRIVING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. And, it does not simply mean the condition of the road, but also includes the condition of the vehicle, visibillity, the ability of the driver, and even the "temperament" of the driver, and any combination of all of them. The fact that he lost control points to the fact that he was going to fast.

Another condition that was not mentioned is the surface of the road. Was it recently resurfaced? Was the blacktop just a couple of weeks old? Even a hard rain on fresh blacktop can be very serious because of the oil that seeps up from in the asphalt. Water standing on the road, or a wet road does not mean there was not a film of oil between, and it gets very slick. Road conditions can change like someone drew a curtain across the road. And, it can last for only about 100 feet, or less, but for the conditions in that area, speeds that are fine before and after are too fast.

In Tulsa, OK, an ambulance hit a patch of fresh blacktop about 100 feet long, in drizzling rain, lost control, hit the concrete barrier in the median, and rolled over, with a patient inside. At that point, it was the only accident that driver had ever had in his life. His speed was fine until he hit the new patch. At that point, it became TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS.

So, when this guy is saying the trainee was not going too fast for conditions, I have to disagree with him. He may have been doing fine for the rest of the road, but for that area, it was too fast. And, if the trainer was not able to recognize that, he should not be a trainer.

There can be patches of road where 2 mph is too fast for the condition of that small stretch of road.

agreed. Just got an email from this guy, he said Feyh was going 50mph, in the slow lane, saw a state trooper/cop up ahead to the side, so he changed lanes. He must have done it too fast, cause thats when the trailer started to fishtail. he also goes on to day that he heard loud "POPS" which he said was the welds in the trailer and the kingpin being ripped off cause the kingpin stayed attached to the 5th wheel.

now i've seen pictures of the wreck, and looks to me like the trailer stayed attached to the truck, just the sides/top of the trailer were pealed back.......still iffy if this guy is who he says he is.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Kevin0915

agreed. Just got an email from this guy, he said Feyh was going 50mph, in the slow lane, saw a state trooper/cop up ahead to the side, so he changed lanes. He must have done it too fast, cause thats when the trailer started to fishtail. he also goes on to day that he heard loud "POPS" which he said was the welds in the trailer and the kingpin being ripped off cause the kingpin stayed attached to the 5th wheel.

now i've seen pictures of the wreck, and looks to me like the trailer stayed attached to the truck, just the sides/top of the trailer were pealed back.......still iffy if this guy is who he says he is.

Has this guy said how long he was driving for Swift before he started training? The worse the road conditions are, the longer you take to change lanes. One of the very first things you teach a new driver. Jerking the wheel in a car, on a slick road, can put you into a 360. In a truck, it will either circle the wagons or roll you over. To have the trailer pop the rivets, the load must have shifted. A load of produce? What kind of produce is that heavy? I've hauled heavy loads of tomatoes and cucumbers that would not pop the rivets by shifting.

Rolls of paper that are just a little wider than half the trailer width, and must be loaded "staggered" will do that if you lock up the brakes. Granted, I do not know ALL about produce, but I can't imagine any produce that is that heavy.

This guy may be exactly who he says he is, but...

[GMAN]

It is always difficult to reconstruct an event after the fact, especially if you are not present. A trailer could fishtail somewhat if the road is wet or windy. When it first happens and the driver over corrects then it could result in the trailer fishtailing. Rather than holding the steering wheel steady he moves the steering wheel back and forth in an effort to correct the fishtail which makes the situation even worse. He panics and loses control resulting in a roll over. Events can happen quickly.

[Kevin0915]

Originally Posted by GMAN

It is always difficult to reconstruct an event after the fact, especially if you are not present.

True, but isnt that what the OP and others were doing.....speculation? Hindsight is 20/20.

I did read one post where Diesel said he would post the link to the official findings once they were made public.....wonder if we'll ever see that.

[Creek Jackson]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

First of all, there is no minimum speed when it comes to DRIVING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. And, it does not simply mean the condition of the road, but also includes the condition of the vehicle, visibillity, the ability of the driver, and even the "temperament" of the driver, and any combination of all of them. The fact that he lost control points to the fact that he was going to fast.

Another condition that was not mentioned is the surface of the road.

Also not mentioned and it may or may not be pertinent to this incident, but the condition of "density of other traffic" is quite often a "critical" condition.

[LightsChromeHorsepower]

Big Diesel started this thread.

I want him back. Kevin isn't nearly as much fun to pick on.

I want Steve Booth back too.

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

It is always difficult to reconstruct an event after the fact, especially if you are not present. A trailer could fishtail somewhat if the road is wet or windy. When it first happens and the driver over corrects then it could result in the trailer fishtailing. Rather than holding the steering wheel steady he moves the steering wheel back and forth in an effort to correct the fishtail which makes the situation even worse. He panics and loses control resulting in a roll over. Events can happen quickly.

Unless you were right there to "witness" the entire accident, an "Investigation" is entirely conjecture, mixed with survey data.

This accident happened between 10pm and midnight, PST, as I recall. It was raining hard, with lot's of water on the road surface.

Add the time of day, the traffic conditions (which on that stretch of road, at that time of the evening, is usually lite), and examining the condition and postion of the tractor and the trailer in the pictures, you can come to a fairly accurate conclusion as to "what happened". Add into the mix what can be seen when the video from the I-5 traffic cameras is examined, and the picture can become quite clear.

If someone wants to pay for the report, it is probably ready. I am not interested in paying to read it.


But I will gladly read it if someone does pay for it, and post's it here!!