[matcat]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Failing to log "legally" and actually as you are doing it....is to leave yourself open to "financial and personal disaster". No, you may not make as much money running legally as you might make running hot, or illegally. So what?

If you cannot make sufficient money running legally, then you need to do one of two things...find an employer who will compensate you well enough to satisfy you financially for running legal, or find another career field. If your mindset is geared to "getting over on, or beating the system"....then you are in the stages of beginning to take the long walk off the short pier and wearing concrete overshoes.

If you think you are getting away with anything...please permit me to dispel that notion. Right this very minute there are probably more than just a couple of "former drivers" sitting in prison or at home shaking their heads in wonder or sadness....their lives and their families lives have been destroyed financially....all because the driver "couldn't make enough running legal". So, the driver cheats on the book. Has an accident, complete log audits are done for the past 180 days, per the law...the company audits, but then the other side employs the auditor, and depending on the circumstances...the DOT does also....and if examples of cheating appear...that can be sold to the jury in a courtroom, be it a criminal or civil issue....its all done but the crying.

If you have an accident, and there is a fatality, and its found that you have cheated on your logbook...you are more than likely going to prison for vehicular homicide, and you will also find yourself looking at liens and judgments for the rest of your life. Bankruptcy will not make them go away.

Go ahead....cheat on the logs for a few extra pennies....at some point it will come back to bite you on the ass. If you can't satisfy your financial needs doing it legally....find another employer or career field.

It's not so much just about squeezing the pennies about either though. You get pushed from all sides to do it illegally, that is why most of these mega companies do not scrutinize your logs, they keep a "If you get away with it good, if you don't its your ass, so just don't make it obvious" mentality. Safety may tell you different, but your dispatcher will make it quite obvious. If your truck can do 72 miles an hour, and you just try to squeeze a little in a day, sure you're only making pennies more, but when they cut you down to 62 now all of a sudden you have to make up a lot of time to even make up what you did before, on top of them all over you for idling, crappy freight that no one wants, etc.

Stay legal, it is the best thing to do, and like the quoted poster said, if you aren't making enough go elsewhere, because it's only going to get worse

[rodcannon]

Matcat, you said that drivers are pressured by dispatchers (and by extension the company) to falsify logs. I have no practical experience in the industry, but I have gotten the impression from reading this forum and one other forum that it is common in the industry. Drivers falsify logs to make more money. Companies look the other way because it gets their loads delivered on time, and drivers take the fall if they have accidents or get ticketed.

That's why I'm looking favorably on Werner. I'm sure there are downsides to working there, but there is no falsifying of the paperless logs and no pressure to do so. (Or so I hear.)

[zipy46]

If you crash a big truck you are most likely on your own

with correct logs or illegal logs.

Truck crashes are a mess

[dewercs2]

Amen to that Zipy46,

I can only add if you survive the wreck without injury good luck finding a job. Now if you are injured like I was and are out for 6 months like I have been, think about the financial toll. Workman comp doesn't go a long way.

Now that Im released to get a job.... It's even harder.

Oh and another thing... I was given two warnings for my wreck. Illegal lane usage and not having an updated log. My last entry was around 930am when I stopped for fuel and it was 530 when the wreck had happen. I was found not at fault for the wreck by DOT and my company. I also pulled a 10 year history last week from the DMV and nothing shows in my history. I still list the wreck and the warnings though.

[matcat]

I can testify that your accident doesn't even have to involve injury or even major damage to screw you over. As far as werner as paperless logging, go ahead if that is what you want, but I guarantee it won't take you long until you start looking for ways to cheat a little here and there. I don't care how good you say you are, or how honest and perfect you say you are, there is not a driver out there that doesn't cheat on the log book, even if it is only occasionally. If you where to follow that little green book to the DOT (no pun intended ) You would either get fired from your company for not doing your job satisfactory, or you will get very frustrated with what you earn for the work you do and how you are treated for doing it.

A major problem isn't really the companies though, it is people in suits making up rules and laws that have no clue what the heck is really going on, who just want to shut up the rest of the people who complain about the trucks when they too know nothing about what is going on.

[Cat6869]

Originally Posted by Chasing Daylight

I can't speak first hand, as my motto was always "I run a legal log, I turn in a legal log, sometimes they are even the same piece of paper."

But from reading this board, it would seem that there are a few companies where you can do nothing but run legal. Companies that appear to be checking logs against the Qualcomm and fuel receipts. I've seen guys speak of instances where they had to move off of a dock, 100 yards to a parking area at the shipper and had to log it as driving or they would be busted on their logs. Seems a bit extreme to me, but if you check out some of the company threads (Crete/Shaffer come to mind) you'll see what I am talking about.

That is just crazy, if a driver moves a few miles I don't consider them as driving. They have @ least in our company 7.5 minutes they can flag, however many things you know is common sense that must be logged.
Like scaling @ a CAT scale, it will take you at least 15 minutes.

It's like telling a driver that's at a truck stop sleeping and someone comes along and plays loud music so you can't sleep. You move the truck as to deal with a confritation (sp?) that isn't driving. How long did it take you to move that truck to another space? Not 7 1/2 minutes. DOT gives you 15 minutes.

So that is just crazy with those.

I will add my own answer though, but wanted to state how i felt about the (Crete/shaffer) issue. They are under DOT eyes they don't want to mess up, that's why! I would say anyhow

[Cat6869]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Failing to log "legally" and actually as you are doing it....is to leave yourself open to "financial and personal disaster". No, you may not make as much money running legally as you might make running hot, or illegally. So what?

If you cannot make sufficient money running legally, then you need to do one of two things...find an employer who will compensate you well enough to satisfy you financially for running legal, or find another career field. If your mindset is geared to "getting over on, or beating the system"....then you are in the stages of beginning to take the long walk off the short pier and wearing concrete overshoes.

If you think you are getting away with anything...please permit me to dispel that notion. Right this very minute there are probably more than just a couple of "former drivers" sitting in prison or at home shaking their heads in wonder or sadness....their lives and their families lives have been destroyed financially....all because the driver "couldn't make enough running legal". So, the driver cheats on the book. Has an accident, complete log audits are done for the past 180 days, per the law...the company audits, but then the other side employs the auditor, and depending on the circumstances...the DOT does also....and if examples of cheating appear...that can be sold to the jury in a courtroom, be it a criminal or civil issue....its all done but the crying.

If you have an accident, and there is a fatality, and its found that you have cheated on your logbook...you are more than likely going to prison for vehicular homicide, and you will also find yourself looking at liens and judgments for the rest of your life. Bankruptcy will not make them go away.

Go ahead....cheat on the logs for a few extra pennies....at some point it will come back to bite you on the ass. If you can't satisfy your financial needs doing it legally....find another employer or career field.

Here is one of the stories/truckers that has ran illegal that is sitting in prison because he was found to be running illegal at the time of the accident.


http://www.whas11.com/news/local/sto....215bae7f.html


Notice it's stated he was running 9 hours over his alloted time! This being it caused the crash per the courts/judge/jury, whoever!

THis is what can happen to you! Understand if the accident is in no way your fault and someone sue's you and they find you was over your hours of service you can be held accountable for that accident.
Truckers are prime canidates for suing! You must understand to be caught off guard can kill your career and or put you in prison.

Take that how you want, but I know it's facts .

Good luck to you all! I am game with whatever you chose

[zipy46]

If you drove 9 hours at an average speed of 55

that would be 495 miles.

If you got .30 cpm that would be 148.50

Such a waste of lifes

__________________________________________________ _____

A responsible company would fire someone for hot log books,

...and on the other hand a responsible company would also

make sure they set it up where the driver can maximize his

available hours and make a living.

...but I am dreaming again...so never mind :roll:

__________________________________________________ _____

The little black box would have begun to set the world of trucking right side up again.

The herd would have thinned real quick had that have happened.

[all18wheels]

if i did fudge my book, i would shave some wait time off and back my end time earlier to show my 10 starting earlier so i can get to my next stop earlier. but i would only do that if i could get enough rest in only a 7-8 hour break.

i may also make a few days dissapear and re-appear as a 34 hour break if i needed to.

that IS of course if i fudged my log. which i dont

[Rawlco]

I make my logbook match what I do as closely as possible. There are always places where you have a choice to make about which 15 minute block is the most correct, and there are times that applying the laws and company policy will put you in technical violation.

Like at my company we are required to include the entire 15 minute block when we hang up the fuel pump as on duty. So lets say that I start out from home at 8am and it is 51 miles to my fuel stop. I can make that trip in 51 minutes and fuel within 6 minutes. So I can stop the fuel pump at 8:58 and log the 51 miles of driving in 45 minutes followed by 15 minutes to fuel. The only problem is that this exceeds the companies speed limit policy coming in at 68 miles per hour. Oops dang I just made an illegal log entry. Did I log it as I did it? Yes. Was it completely legal and within company policy? No. So my personal rule is to have it match within 15 minutes of actual events.

In another case we are required to log 30 minutes for any DOT roadside inspection that includes the times listed on the report. Last month I had an inspection that only took ten minutes from 9:20 to 9:30 and I was on a tight schedule so I couldn't hang around for and extra fifteen minutes at the end, so I logged the 30 minutes from 9:00 to 9:30. I left the weight station at 9:31 with a legal looking log, but I was actually driving for 15 minutes between 9:00 and 9:15 that showed on my log as on duty at the weigh station.

This amounts to required falsification of logbooks by the very rules that we are supposed to follow. With such restrictive laws it is impossible to follow them completely. Follow the spirit of the law and you will be fine. Stay within your 14 and take a full 10 hour break. If you think about it there is no reason to exceed your 14 if you are going to take a break anyway because no matter when you take your break during your trip you will arrive at the same time in theory.