[Fredog]

Here's a scenario.... I am driving along in the right lane, Joe 4 wheeler wants to merge on. I cant move over and or speed up. I hold my ground and Joe 4-wheeler drives into my fuel tank. The witnesses all tell the cop what happened and Joe gets cited for the wreck. Joe 4-wheeler then calls Frank-ambulance chaser who calls Doctor Quackenstein, Doctor quack says that Joe will have pain the rest of his life. Frank then pulls my life-long driving history and finds that as a teenager I had 2 speeding tickets. also in 35 years of truck driving, I have had 2 speeding tickets. I have also been put out of service twice for equipment violations ( turn signal out and parking brake out of adjustment) I also have one out of service for log book not up to last change of duty. ( I forgot to go to driving when I left the plant) Now, Frank-ambulance chaser presents this to a jury. only he doesnt tell them this happened over a course of more than 30 years, He just tells them the violations and explains that I have a history of speeding and driving unsafe equipment, the jury that is made up of all 4-wheeler drivers who hate trucks takes about 10 minutes to award Joe a few million. My companies insurance pays off and raises the rates so high that my boss can no longer stay in business, no other company will touch me because it has been proven that I am an unsafe driver. BUT I STOOD MY GROUND AND SHOWED THAT 4 WHEELER WHO IS BOSS!!

the incidents and characters in this story are purely fictional

[ct77]

Very good point Fredog and Golfhobo,

In a governed truck hard to speed up so we only really have two options slow down or move over.

I lived and drove in Germany for 20 years and even though it goes against the ingrained habit i have that slow or commercial traffic must stay in the right lane except to pass I have found a solution that works for me here in the states.

Major Cities
If it is three lanes or more I just stay out of the right lane where you dont have to contend with the people merging. Now I watch my mirrors if it is cars behind me they can pass either right or left no problem for them (and it is legal here in the states) and most of them pass on the right anyway. If I see another truck that is faster I will move over right (since you are not always next to an on ramp) and clear the lane for them because even though they can pass legally on the right(left lane is restricted if I am in the middle) most professional drivers know that slower traffic must stay right if you are not running the speed limit(and will give you an ear full on the radio).
Now I have heard arguments that slow traffic must stay right but if you are holding the speed limit (legal)and the traffic behind you is passing left or right(speeding to do so)
you are legal by staying in the middle lane.

Never really had this problem in Germany, onramp is called acceleration lane (Beschlunigung spur) and believe me the Germans know how to use it .

Driving defensively is a great way to prevent accidents but some stuff is just plain unavoidable unless you stay home in bed.

What amazed me when I had to retest here for my CDL after moving back home to the states is the lack of emphasis on road rules, even most CDL schools only teach the fundamentals of operating a truck and barely touch road rules, had a trainee once that had no idea what the lines on the road meant other than that they marked the lanes, did not know solid lines you are not allowed to cross and how they regulated lane changes or passing.

[Mr. Ford95]

Good thing it is purely fictional Fredog, because a defense lawyer would eat that up and get it tossed out of court in the first 5 minutes. 8)

[Twilight Flyer]

A "merging" vehicle that IS abeam of my tanks, tells ME alot! It tells me that they may be stupid, careless, on the phone or whatever.... but, it tells me that THEY are not in a position that INDICATES that they will speed up and get in front of me, NOR that they are inclined to get behind me! So.... as a PROFESSIONAL driver, concerned for my OWN safety as well as others', I have the responsibility to resolve the situation SAFELY.... whatever that takes!

Like changing lanes and wiping out the mini-van in the left lane that you didn't have time to see, in order to take evasive action and avoid the obvious accident with the moron on the right.

someone drive into your fuel tanks because they are stupid only makes YOU MORE SO!
IF you survive it.... it WILL go down as a "preventable," and will probably cost you your CAREER!

And you would be incorrect.

If Joe Dumbass is coming onto the interstate and merges into you, he will be given the ticket for "FAILURE TO YIELD", since he will have passed that big red or yellow triangle with the word "YIELD" on it, in order to do so. Hell, you don't even have to slow down.

Now granted, a professional driver isn't going to look for a reason to run Joe Dumbass off the road, but as a professional driver, you also better not be making rapid lane changes to avoid the moron. That's when you become the unprofessional inattentive steering wheel holder who will likely loose job, career, and everything else.

Interestingly enough, if you were to slow down to let Joe Dumbass on the interstate and ended up getting rear-ended by another vehicle, you would likely be charged with impeding traffic, get nailed with that preventable, and suffer all the fun that goes with it, even if the person that hit you shouldered the blame with a "following too closely."

That YIELD sign is there for a reason. It means, according to the judge in a case I was involved in a while back (I was the hittee, not the hitter), "you stop your damn car and get your fat ass out of it and look, if you have to!! GUILTY AS CHARGED!!" And a Failure to Yield charge is also considered a major moving violation.

As a professional truck driver, if you can safely change lanes to allow someone to merge, then do so. But on today's crowded roads, that rarely happens. If I were a trucker, I'd much rather hazard the idiot trying to merge into me, than erraticly change lanes to avoid him and send a family of 5 head-on into oncoming traffic. As a 4-wheeler, I always make the assumption that whoever is in the right lane, be it a truck or another 4-wheeler, is going to stay there and I adjust my merging speed to do so safely.

Here's a scenario.... I am driving along in the right lane, Joe 4 wheeler wants to merge on. I cant move over and or speed up. I hold my ground and Joe 4-wheeler drives into my fuel tank. The witnesses all tell the cop what happened and Joe gets cited for the wreck. Joe 4-wheeler then calls Frank-ambulance chaser who calls Doctor Quackenstein, Doctor quack says that Joe will have pain the rest of his life. Frank then pulls my life-long driving history and finds that as a teenager I had 2 speeding tickets. also in 35 years of truck driving, I have had 2 speeding tickets. I have also been put out of service twice for equipment violations ( turn signal out and parking brake out of adjustment) I also have one out of service for log book not up to last change of duty. ( I forgot to go to driving when I left the plant) Now, Frank-ambulance chaser presents this to a jury. only he doesnt tell them this happened over a course of more than 30 years, He just tells them the violations and explains that I have a history of speeding and driving unsafe equipment, the jury that is made up of all 4-wheeler drivers who hate trucks takes about 10 minutes to award Joe a few million. My companies insurance pays off and raises the rates so high that my boss can no longer stay in business, no other company will touch me because it has been proven that I am an unsafe driver. BUT I STOOD MY GROUND AND SHOWED THAT 4 WHEELER WHO IS BOSS!!

If you are in an accident where someone failed to yield, as a driver, it would behoove you to ensure that officers were called to the scene and that an accident report was filled out. At that point, you have an air-tight case than no shyster lawer could break.

[BigWheels]

OK. I'm in my 4-wheeler going home from a day of professional driving. I'm coming off the interstate onto a spur north of Miller Park in Milwaukee, WI. I put my turn signal on to indicate that I will be merging with traffic to the right of me.

Jack Dumbass (cousin to Joe Dumbass :lol: ) is in the lane I'm merging into. I realize he is not going to allow me in so I tap the brakes. I look over and he's staring straight ahead (like he's stoned or something. In all fairness to Jack, with all the rain we've gotten here, perhaps he's totally fried because he's got 4-feel of water and sewage in his basement, but I digress). Then his passenger must have pointed out that I'm trying to merge. Without warning he abruptly swerves (and I mean swerves) in the right lane adjacent to him. Fortunately there is no vehicle there. Unfortunately, the vehicle that was just about there slammed on the brakes to avoid rear-ending Jack Dumbass. I happened to look over at the other guy just after he slammed on his brakes. You would be accurate to say he was a wee-bit pissed.

Joe Dumbass then proceeded to veer back into his original lane (good thing I wasn't there!). I passed him (fairly quickly I might add) and proceeded on my merry way.

Safety is a 24/7/365 thing ain't it!

[golfhobo]

Twilight said:

Like changing lanes and wiping out the mini-van in the left lane that you didn't have time to see, in order to take evasive action and avoid the obvious accident with the moron on the right.

Apparently, this is one of the differences between US, Twilight. As I suggested.... I almost LIVE in my mirrors! I ALWAYS know exactly what cars/trucks are around me. I know the COLOR and the MODEL as well as I can discern it. I know whether they are "hanging back" or "closing on my flank. I also take inventory of EVERY car merging into traffic. I am WAY ahead of this game EVERY time it is played out. I would NEVER have to make an "erratic" lane change at the LAST moment.... because I would have decided much earlier what my options were, and what would be the SAFE way to resolve the situation.

My point was, that a professional driver SHOULD be thinking way ahead of the game.... and not BE in a position to just let a moron drive into his tanks.

And you would be incorrect.

That is YOUR opinion. As you said.... you don't work in SAFETY. IF witnesses SAY that the lane to your left was open, or that you COULD have slowed down.... just because the "merger" was in the wrong, does NOT mean that you couldn't have prevented the accident. And, from everything I've read on this forum.... if there is ANY way you COULD have prevented the accident..... you will be charged (by your company) with a "preventable." Personally..... I have no experience in that!

If Joe Dumbass is coming onto the interstate and merges into you, he will be given the ticket for "FAILURE TO YIELD", since he will have passed that big red or yellow triangle with the word "YIELD" on it, in order to do so. Hell, you don't even have to slow down.

Now granted, a professional driver isn't going to look for a reason to run Joe Dumbass off the road, but as a professional driver, you also better not be making rapid lane changes to avoid the moron. That's when you become the unprofessional inattentive steering wheel holder who will likely loose job, career, and everything else.

Who gets the ticket has little to do with WHO could have prevented the accident. We agree completely on not making "rapid lane changes." Besides.... part of my point was that if you stand your ground, and he merges into your tanks..... you probably won't LIVE to worry about your job anyway!

Interestingly enough, if you were to slow down to let Joe Dumbass on the interstate and ended up getting rear-ended by another vehicle, you would likely be charged with impeding traffic, get nailed with that preventable, and suffer all the fun that goes with it, even if the person that hit you shouldered the blame with a "following too closely."

I don't think so! There is no law that says you can't SLOW DOWN in your lane! (WHY do you think they post signs WARNING you of merging traffic from your right?) That is NOT impeding traffic. And yes, the idiot who was "elephant training" you will get a following too closely ticket IF he hits you!

As a professional truck driver, if you can safely change lanes to allow someone to merge, then do so. But on today's crowded roads, that rarely happens. If I were a trucker, I'd much rather hazard the idiot trying to merge into me, than erraticly change lanes to avoid him and send a family of 5 head-on into oncoming traffic. As a 4-wheeler, I always make the assumption that whoever is in the right lane, be it a truck or another 4-wheeler, is going to stay there and I adjust my merging speed to do so safely.

Since, as you say, you are NOT a trucker..... then you don't sit atop 240 gallons of potential FIRE! We don't have the luxury of choosing ONE option or the OTHER. It is our JOB to avoid BOTH! And we DO thank those of you who "adjust your speed to be safe." If you'll re-read my post, Twilight.... you'll see that I am all about thinking AHEAD of every situation, and NOT being "caught" in one like this.

Someone said that a merging vehicle abeam of his tanks told him NOTHING. I simply pointed out that it SHOULD! And that a professional TRUCK driver has the responsibility to be SMARTER and SAFER than the average 4wheeler! And just a LITTLE less "pig-headed!" :wink:

[Windwalker]

[quote="Golfhobo"]Who gets the ticket has little to do with WHO could have prevented the accident. We agree completely on not making "rapid lane changes." Besides.... part of my point was that if you stand your ground, and he merges into your tanks..... you probably won't LIVE to worry about your job anyway!

At the same time, at the point of impact, if all of your eighteen wheels are not WITHIN your lane markings, most like you will get the ticket, and the blame for the accident.

On I-65, a few years ago, a tanker was southbound, and a pickup was coming off the get-on ramp. That interchange has the "A" and "B" ramps, and the pickup had to go around a full 270 degrees to get onto the hiway. It was evident that half way around the ramp, the pickup was going into a power slide in order to get up enough speed to get ahead of the truck. Even though the tanker moved over nearly one full lane, the pickup still slammed into the steps and fuel tank. When the state trooper got there, he looked at the tracks, and was ready to give the tanker the ticket because he was not within his lane when the impact occurred. There were 4 of us that had seen the whole thing happen, including two 4-wheelers. All laid blame on the pickup.

If you think you are good enough to be able to prevent every possible accident that might happen to you, I'm afraid you are being far too over-confident. And, I don't care HOW PROFESSIONAL you are. Someone, someday, will find a way to get through your defenses. Not much different than getting caught on a railroad track.

[golfhobo]

Mr. Ford said:

So Hobo, how about the one that attempted to merge into the side of my trailer, was I being unprofessional because I was passing them and they decided to start drifting over?

Unless your drving compartment AND your twin tanks are located somewhere in the middle of your trailer...... I don't think my comments were addressing this! :roll:

Neighbor who drove dumps locally was hit head-on on a 2 lane by a suicidal driver. He never had time to get the brakes because the guy swerved over at the last second. I guess he was being unprofessional, right? He didn't have a way out.

Sorry to hear about your neighbor. 2 lanes ALWAYS make me a bit nervous for much this same reason! Not so much a suicidal driver, but an innattentive one... crossing the line! I USUALLY am covering my brake most of the time, and ALWAYS (at least) LOOKING for a way out! Perhaps your neighbor WASN'T!! Or, maybe he WAS.... and just had no way out on such short notice! This is certainly a special case that has LITTLE BEARING on my post! But.... thanks for making such an obscure point! :roll:

You cannot be professional 100% of the time and not be in a wreck.

Say WHAT??? :shock: :lol:

There are times when you have to be unprofessional in order to avoid a wreck. You say speed up, that's being unprofessional right there but it could avoid a wreck or get you charged if your in one as being aggressive in some states.

Speeding up is NOT being "unprofessional!" It is entirely possible that you might NOT even be doing the speed limit, especially if in the right lane. Besides..... when I mentioned that..... I was MOSTLY referring to speeding up to allow another TRUCK to merge without having HIM to have to slow down!

Your supposed to hold what you have or slow down if you cannot change lanes. As what was exlained to me by the state examiner when I got my CDL, they are more agile than you, let them make the decision. That is coming from one of the toughest, by the book examiner's in the state of VA.

You gonna SLOW DOWN for a merging truck weighing 80k lbs?? OR for a Granny who is scared to get out in front of you anyway?? When that "tough" VA examiner is sitting in MY SEAT.... atop 240 gallons of diesel..... I'll let HIM tell ME what I should do! He is giving you the SIMPLEST, most BASIC information he thinks your DUMB TRUCKER AZZ can understand!! :roll: And, apparently..... you're THANKING him for it! :wink:

I DO, however, agree about them being more "agile!" I'm usually yelling at them... "It's called an ACCELERATOR, Dummy! MAYASH on it!" :lol:

But, when they DON'T.... and I usually can tell when they WON'T..... "I" make the decisions for BOTH of us! A decision well planned out in advance, with no ERRATIC movements, and I can honestly say.... I've NEVER run ANYONE off onto the shoulder!

Of course.... I am RARELY in the granny lane in big cities!! AND, I guess it is worth mentioning, that my truck is fast enough that I am usually PACING, if not LEADING the flow of traffic. So MINIVANS full of Twilight's relatives are not "whizzing" all about me faster than I can COUNT them! :lol:

Vehicles around me tend to "respect" me more, because I am not such a "nuisance" to them. AND, I often signal my intentions well in advance, and even "encourage" them to either stay ahead of me, or behind me if possible! I "guard" my "way out" with "sentinel" committment! I don't talk on the phone all day, or eat while driving, or jam out to tunes! I am "on the job" for 10 or 11 hours a day! I "direct" more traffic in one day than most traffic cops do! In 3 years of driving, I have been "flipped off" exactly TWICE!! I have been "thanked" with flashing lights THOUSANDS of times!

This discussion points out two of MY biggest pet peeves. 1) governed trucks and disparate speed limits, and 2) this nonsense called the "no zone!" :twisted:

Of course, it is TOO much to ASK that MOST truck drivers could be TRUSTED to drive with the flow of traffic!! THAT would require an understanding of the concept of "professionalism" that Colin and I were referring to!

[golfhobo]

Windwalker said:

At the same time, at the point of impact, if all of your eighteen wheels are not WITHIN your lane markings, most like you will get the ticket, and the blame for the accident.

On I-65, a few years ago, a tanker was southbound, and a pickup was coming off the get-on ramp. That interchange has the "A" and "B" ramps, and the pickup had to go around a full 270 degrees to get onto the hiway. It was evident that half way around the ramp, the pickup was going into a power slide in order to get up enough speed to get ahead of the truck. Even though the tanker moved over nearly one full lane, the pickup still slammed into the steps and fuel tank. When the state trooper got there, he looked at the tracks, and was ready to give the tanker the ticket because he was not within his lane when the impact occurred. There were 4 of us that had seen the whole thing happen, including two 4-wheelers. All laid blame on the pickup.

First, Wind..... I think my point WAS that WE will probably get the blame regardless! But, I don't know if I believe this stuff about all the wheels being in one lane! Let's say you stopped dead at the point of impact, and the trooper could see that your FRONT wheels were moving to the left! HOW could that get you a ticket.... when YOU were moving over to let him in? Besides..... please remember there is a difference (at times) between what a trooper decides and CITES.... and what is found to be fact in a court of law! I don't "find" that the truck was MOVING into the lane in contention, and I don't "find" that he was making an improper lane change! I DO "find" that the merging pickup failed to yield to traffic already IN that lane! Like someone mentioned earlier..... there are TWO types of attorneys! I like DEFENSE attorneys! :lol:

If you think you are good enough to be able to prevent every possible accident that might happen to you, I'm afraid you are being far too over-confident. And, I don't care HOW PROFESSIONAL you are. Someone, someday, will find a way to get through your defenses. Not much different than getting caught on a railroad track.

Your point is "noted," Wind. Yes, I am VERY "confident." But, I'm not a fool! Someday, what you say MIGHT happen! I am not stupid enough to believe I can outsmart ALL 300 million Americans! But, I will NEVER give up TRYING to be "professional" enough to LIMIT my chances! That is my JOB! And I WORK at it every day!

BTW.... early in my short career, I DID get STUCK on some tracks in Oakland, CA..... and, of course, immediately heard that dreaded train horn! :shock: (A situation, as it would be, cause by a 4wheeler cutting off my wide turn!)

With more "calm" than I had EVER experienced before..... I applied my professional training, and quickly extracted myself with NO damage. I think I lost a year or two off my LIFE, though! :lol:

I understand your 4 monkey theory..... but, that makes YOU a "fatalist." As an optimist.... I'm hoping that that 4th monkey will kill himself in a one car accident BEFORE he gets around to ME! :lol:

I am not saying, Wind, that I am "so good" that I can prevent EVERY possible accident that MIGHT happen to me. I am saying that I work HARD every day and ALL day to prevent them! That is part of my job! I'm not going to let some 4wheeler "merge" into my volatile fuel tanks and then WONDER how it happened?!?! :roll:

It's like how the Conservative HAWKS claim that the Terrorists only have to be lucky ONCE and "WE" have to be lucky (or prepared) EVERY time! I drive PREPARED!! Vigilant.... ON THE JOB..... ALL day..... EVERY day!

And, I am trying to convey the importance of that to the newbies that might read this! I have seen HUNDREDS of "burned out" cabs in my few short years..... and lost a distant relative to one! I DON'T intend to go out that way.... and I don't want others to, either!

[Fredog]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

Good thing it is purely fictional Fredog, because a defense lawyer would eat that up and get it tossed out of court in the first 5 minutes. 8)

tell that to McDonalds