[Shebear]

I'm just starting to do some research here, thanks to seeing an old DVD of Sally Field in the 1979 film NORMA RAE, about union representation of textile workers.

I vaguely remembered that the Teamsters used to represent truck drivers, before Jimmy Hoffa visited the river.

A decent hourly wage, supervised work conditions -- If those were ever real, how were they lost? Can we get them back again?

Everybody on this board can count the bodies.

Yes, I'm a rookie, and duh don't know nuttin.

But lots of us out here are training to build a future. Are the cards stacked against us? Read THIS article:

http://www.personal-injury-michie-ha...accidents1.cfm

[homer]

no,5% are union.
hoffa jr said we are not in the union so we are the enemy.
most union companies are out of business since reagan deregulated trucking and the mega carriers emerged.
i think we need unions but they need to be more interested in protecting jobs. reagan eliminated a whole myriad of red tape,circuitous routing,interlining,icc,and opened alot of oppurtunities for owner operators and people like moyes and werner

[merrick4]

Great link. I have found that a lot of these drivers, though not necessarily on this board, are from the South and have an innate dislike for unions. I have looked into and tried hard to understand why but never get a concrete answer.

I looked into Allied Auto Hauling, as they came to the school to recruit. I found out they were going to bankruptcy. The Union came out against the wage cut or freeze that the company was looking for; they broke it down how the CEO who was getting millions wasn't going to be loosing. I don't remember excactly what they wrote but it looked valid to me. I printed it out and took it to one of the instructors at school who was always bashing unions and asked him to clarify why unions are so bad when from the article it seems like thank God for unions. I wasn't looking for a fight with the guy either, I truly just wanted to understand why unions get such a bad rap. He couldn't answer me.

[mi_rookie]

I really don't like unions, I have held both union and non-union positions.

Reason against unions.
*Everyone makes the same no matter how well or how poorly a person performs.
*Unions tend to protect the poor performers the most, which leads everyone to performer less.
*Everyone must be represented, union reps have the same obligations as defence lawyers
*No matter how hard the unions try the executive level still ends up making 500+ times the lowest paid person
*Leads to higher cost of goods and services

Reasons for unions.
*Union workers tend to be higher paid
*Better beneifts
*Better vaction time

I understand the need for unions, but I just don't think that another Beaurcratic organization is in the best interest of all of us.

I will use the auto industry, because that is what I know best. After all the smoke clears from all of these cut backs, the companies will still not be that much better off. They will only have one place left to look at why they aren't making money. The executive levels. They will not have enough people left to blame it on the lower levels.

The Japanese companies are successful, because the execs only make 10 times more than the lowest paid employee on average. US auto execs are making around 530 times more. Japanese companies cut everyone's wages during bad times, not just the bottom tier of the company. They are much more equatable than US companies.

What bothers me the most is that the executives are the least loyal. Make one wrong move with them and they quit moving on to the next better offer. The lower level employees are with the company far longer and are far more loyal. I don't just mean the union or blue collar people either. Both lower level Blue and White collar people are much more loyal and tend to hold the companies interest in mind more than the execs. This is just the opposite of what the execs lead us to believe.

Just my .02 worth.

[Snowman7]

Admittedly unions have ruined some industries and companies with their greed but our industry needs major reforms and improvements in the areas of driver compensation and overall treatment. Maybe an organized union is the answer. Something needs to be done. But nothing will happen and as more drivers decide its no longer worth it companies will push for more immigration to obtain cheap labor. Change will only come when they cant get enough drivers and the companies make it worth our time. Companies will not change until their backs are up against the wall and profits disappear.[/i][/b]

[One]

Unions used to be more widespread, but have steadily declined with increased influence big business gained in Govt. Since Reagan began, every republican prez. has helped big business make it harder to form unions.

One thing is for sure, we are being treated lower than dogs sometimes, not allowed to idle to stay comfy unless theres a dog or cat in the cab??? Just an example, but it shows something. This notion that Unions ruined this or that is just PR by big business which likes to shut down and start fresh without unions. Blaming the union for the demise of the company is swatting 2 flies at once for them- no-ones angry at them and everyones angry at the union.

[kc0iv]

First off Shebear look who is involved in the website. Personal injury lawyers. What they didn't include was what percentage of accidents are caused by the truck and what percentage is caused by the auto? Last time I look at the numbers only about 17% of all accidents involved a truck. Of that 17% 83% was caused by the auto. But those lawyers make the big bucks off the trucking companies. Why? Because they know it is cheaper for trucking companies to settle rather than fight the lawsuit. And we all know if you look enough they an find something.

Now as to union vs non union. There is no question truck driving total package needs to be improved. The rub comes how much is the end user will to have their prices increase to pay for these increases?

Lets take an example that just about everyone can relate to. Why do people go the the mega-stores instead of the local mom and pop store? In the majority of cases price is the main reason. Look at the big bad wolf -- Walmart. They can sell for less for several reasons; buy in large volume, they control a large market share, reduced wages and others. Look what Walmart should have to charge if if all along the chain everyone just doubled their price to cover labor cost. Instead of you and I paying $10 for an item we would be paying maybe $50 - $80 for that same item. So our action would be we need more money and the cycle just keeps going around and around.

I agree with mi_rookie in that executives are paid to much. However, why are they over paid? The stockholders want more $$ for their investment and are willing to pay there high wages to get these executives.

One other point mi_rookie hit on was loyalty. Just look at this board seems like everyone is wanting to change jobs. Everyone wants to be paid $1.00+ per mile and have every weekend off with 4 weeks vacation per year. Sure there can could happen. But would the end user be willing to pay what it would cost to have these benefits? I don't think so.

How did the Japanese companies get into the U.S.A. market in the first place? They offered the American market a good product at a cheaper price. After just a few years Japanese auto had a better product while the American went down in quality. Yet the American auto wages keeps going up. Do mainly to to what I say an over paid worker.

The end question. Will truck driver gain anything by going to a union. Maybe the less than truckload drivers and the local drivers. As far as OTR drivers I don't see it happening. I think OTR drivers should be looking a other benefits such as more regional runs (better home time) and increases in other benefits. Both of which I see more companies going to.

That's my 1/2 cent.

kc0iv

[neverbeenlate]

I worked as a teamster for years and there were some good points of the union but overall the unions protect the lazy and reward them for doing a below average job while the guy busting his ass makes the same. With a union it is very hard for a company to fire these deadbeats and everybodies production goes down because the incentive to work hard is not there.The trucking industry has a lot of problems, which will never be fixed until drivers say no to low wages etc. We don't need to pay union dues to do this.

[Orangetxguy]

NBL nailed the situation. Until every TruckDriver is willing to say "NO" to cheap wages, things will not change in regards to driver conditions.

Every time a driver spends 6 hours loading a truck and letting the shipper and carrier get away with not paying an hourly wage to the driver ...every time a driver hand unloads a trailer for less than what a warehouse employee makes per hour, every time a driver accepts a condition, "Because that is the way it has always been done", nothing will change.

If tomorrow, every driver that arrives at a warehouse for an "On-time" appointment, logs the time at the warehouse as "on-duty, not driving", and refused to leave the facility because they were there 8 hours and legally ran out of hours after having been at the facility 4 hours, maybe..just maybe, someone would take notice...but that isn't going to happen.

Tomorrow morning, thousands of truck drivers, whom will already be tired when they arrive at their pick-up or drop points, are going to log all but 30 minutes at that facility, as Off duty or Sleeper berth, because once the trailer is either loaded or unloaded, they are going to need to move on to the next point....so they can do the entire cycle all over again...and they are going to do most of the work for free...because that is how it is done.

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

NBL nailed the situation. Until every TruckDriver is willing to say "NO" to cheap wages, things will not change in regards to driver conditions.

Every time a driver spends 6 hours loading a truck and letting the shipper and carrier get away with not paying an hourly wage to the driver ...every time a driver hand unloads a trailer for less than what a warehouse employee makes per hour, every time a driver accepts a condition, "Because that is the way it has always been done", nothing will change.

If tomorrow, every driver that arrives at a warehouse for an "On-time" appointment, logs the time at the warehouse as "on-duty, not driving", and refused to leave the facility because they were there 8 hours and legally ran out of hours after having been at the facility 4 hours, maybe..just maybe, someone would take notice...but that isn't going to happen.

Tomorrow morning, thousands of truck drivers, whom will already be tired when they arrive at their pick-up or drop points, are going to log all but 30 minutes at that facility, as Off duty or Sleeper berth, because once the trailer is either loaded or unloaded, they are going to need to move on to the next point....so they can do the entire cycle all over again...and they are going to do most of the work for free...because that is how it is done.

Well said, driver. I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, things will never change in that biz which is exactly why I'm not in it any more.