[Frogman]

Originally Posted by AsphaltBound

Why is it that experienced drivers expect more wages, just because their experienced? Don't get me wrong in most professions an entry level position is going to be a must. But in truck driving aren't the newbie and the seasoned pro doing the exact same thing?, both are taking the same kind of risk and both can expect the same kind of results if an incident happens. Just because the seasoned pro knows the the highway a lot better and can take short cuts accordingly does it mean that he should get more pay? Maybe the insurance for a pro is a little less or is it that the insurance company takes less of a risk with the pro I don't know, just a thought. Seems to me if I'm doing the same job shouldn't I expect the same wages? Like i said just a thought, I'm not naive, nor do I think that I'm going to get the same wages as a pro, but don't think I wont ask when I get there to orientation.

Well again, speaking from total ignorance here . . . I would think that a driver who has a 3-5 year work history in the idustry (or with the same company) and has proven himself to be totally dependable, keeps the truck clean, is responsive, has no tickets or accidents and has developed a high degree of efficiency in his work . . . is much more valuable than a new guy starting out.

Yeah, technically, driving is driving . . . but trucking (which includes a lot more tasks than just driving) is a different matter.

Just as a simple example . . . say a new driver and experienced driver had to deliver materials here in my town. The new driver might read a map and take the direct route. The experienced driver, having been here a few times, would know that there's an alternate route that while a couple of miles out of the way . . . is much faster. Upon arrival it might take the new driver an hour to tie down and tarp. The experienced man might do it in 40 minutes.

And so on.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by AsphaltBound

Why is it that experienced drivers expect more wages, just because their experienced? Don't get me wrong in most professions an entry level position is going to be a must. But in truck driving aren't the newbie and the seasoned pro doing the exact same thing?, both are taking the same kind of risk and both can expect the same kind of results if an incident happens. Just because the seasoned pro knows the the highway a lot better and can take short cuts accordingly does it mean that he should get more pay? Maybe the insurance for a pro is a little less or is it that the insurance company takes less of a risk with the pro I don't know, just a thought. Seems to me if I'm doing the same job shouldn't I expect the same wages? Like i said just a thought, I'm not naive, nor do I think that I'm going to get the same wages as a pro, but don't think I wont ask when I get there to orientation.

I believe you have already answered some of your questions. As in any business, experience is a valuable asset and should be compensated accordingly. After you have done a job for a while, you should be able to perform your duties better than someone just starting out.

The less experience a driver has the greater his chance of being involved in an accident. That affects insurance rates, sometimes dramatically. If an inexperienced driver is involved in an accident he is more likely to be further scrutinized than the experienced driver who has had many years of experience without incident. It is like the teenager who just got his drivers license. He is more likely to be involved in an accident or abuse his vehicle than the older more experienced driver. The new driver will need to have more supervision since he has not yet learned enough about his job to operate independently.

The experienced driver knows how to manage his time to best perform his duties. He knows the roads and what to expect at certain times of year as the weather changes. He has hopefully developed greater personal communication skills when it comes to dealing with customers and operations. An experienced driver should be able to perform his job better than someone just starting out.

If he has been with a company for a few years he has learned his way around the organization and how to work through any problems by communicating with those involved.

[GoldiesPlating]

Originally Posted by Frogman

Two questions:

1) One of MAVERICK recruiter's points was that you never really knew what the company was charging the customer so how could you really know as a driver what your load was worth?

Low blow . . . but interesting point.

At TMC, how do you know what the company is charging and therefore what your "cut" is?

2) If a new driver can "make as much" as an experienced driver then there's no logical reason for an experienced driver to remain at TMC.

Yet, obviously they do.

So there has to be something more to it. I don't know what, but it makes sense that older drivers expect higher pay on top of other benefits so obviously they're either getting greater percentage or more expensive loads.

Are there "levels" to loads with some getting the best and some getting the worst?

If older drivers do make greater percentage, how far can you be after 3-5 years?

Can someone explain how that works?

Answer to question #1 = You DON'T know what TMC is really charging the customer. THAT is why you choose % pay FIRST so you can then calculate what your MILEAGE pay would have been. This is easy since you DO have an odometer. If you're not making more on percent SWITCH. Seems like a no-brainer no?

Answer to question #2 = "If a new driver can "make as much" as an experienced driver then there's no logical reason for an experienced driver to remain at TMC. Yet, obviously they do." WHY, is your ONLY goal as a driver to make more $$$ than the new guys? And you say that's LOGICAL!? :shock: Why would an experienced guy quit just because a new driver makes as much as him? They will BOTH be making more money than most people do as drivers. My point was to show that new drivers make GOOD money, not that experienced drivers make lousy money.

Percentage has NOTHING to do with seniority. It's PERFORMANCE based on lots of criteria, NONE of which is seniority. You are looking at TMC as if it were a union-type company. If a driver has been with us for 10 years but is a lazy, sloppy bum, then he's going to make a LOT less than a BRAND NEW driver who works efficiently and cares about his appearance.

[GoldiesPlating]

asphalt bound and GMan you are both right, but what you describe here is exactly what I mean when I say % pay is PERFORMANCE based, NOT seniority based. If you PERFORM equally as well as a veteran, you WILL make the same money as a veteran WITHOUT having to wait for seniority. If you are always late, get lost often, cost the company time and lost wages, you will not be as high on the percent scale and thus make less $$$. Which, if you're a newbie, is one of the reasons TMC keeps you with a driver/trainer for 6 weeks. HOPEFULLY you will learn how to make better pay as well as how to drive the truck and secure your loads.

THATS % PAY AT TMC.

[devildice]

Perhaps I am way out in left field on my thinking....but I look at the whole deal of a new driver being able to make as much as an experienced driver simply as a motivator to do your absolute best.

TMC does not offer any guarantee that a new driver will make big $$, but the incentive is there for them if they work hard.

I think it's great system to get all drivers, new and experienced to do their best. It may also be a way for TMC to weed out the lazy.

[Frogman]

[quote="GoldiesPlating"]

Originally Posted by Frogman

.
Answer to question #2 = "If a new driver can "make as much" as an experienced driver then there's no logical reason for an experienced driver to remain at TMC. Yet, obviously they do." WHY, is your ONLY goal as a driver to make more $$$ than the new guys? And you say that's LOGICAL!? :shock: Why would an experienced guy quit just because a new driver makes as much as him? They will BOTH be making more money than most people do as drivers. My point was to show that new drivers make GOOD money, not that experienced drivers make lousy money.

Percentage has NOTHING to do with seniority. It's PERFORMANCE based on lots of criteria, NONE of which is seniority. You are looking at TMC as if it were a union-type company. If a driver has been with us for 10 years but is a lazy, sloppy bum, then he's going to make a LOT less than a BRAND NEW driver who works efficiently and cares about his appearance.

Look . . . Regardless of how the compensation is figured . . . If you hire me to work at $50K a year and five years later I'm still at $50K a year then I've stagnated. I'm sure that's not how TMC operates. You're misunderstanding my question.

Say I rise to 32% in six months and I earn $60K my first year. Are you telling me to that after five years with TMC I will still only be at 32% and still only be earning $60K a year?

Of course not. That would literally be a regressive pay scale and I'm sure TMC has a progressive pay scale correlated to the increasingly superior performance I expect to deliver as I become more efficient at tie-down, tarping, route planning, driving, customer service, etc. Just learning the roads alone will increase my performance.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Stick with apples, please.

Quit comparing the first-year superstar to the ten-year slob. Compare the first-year superstar to the ten-year superstar.

In other words . . . if a 32% guy can make $50-60K in Year #1 . . . then what's he likely to make in Year # 10 and how is he making it?


PS . . . and no, an experienced driver won't quit because "a new driver makes as much as him" . . . he'll quit because his standard of living has failed to improve despite having given five years of loyalty and superior performance to the company. Wouldn't you?

[GoldiesPlating]

Originally Posted by devildice

Perhaps I am way out in left field on my thinking....but I look at the whole deal of a new driver being able to make as much as an experienced driver simply as a motivator to do your absolute best.

TMC does not offer any guarantee that a new driver will make big $$, but the incentive is there for them if they work hard.

I think it's great system to get all drivers, new and experienced to do their best. It may also be a way for TMC to weed out the lazy.

I couldn't have said it better myself THANKS!!! That is exactly my feeling AND experience too.

[GoldiesPlating]

Originally Posted by Frogman

Look . . . Regardless of how the compensation is figured . . . If you hire me to work at $50K a year and five years later I'm still at $50K a year then I've stagnated. I'm sure that's not how TMC operates. You're misunderstanding my question.

Say I rise to 32% in six months and I earn $60K my first year. Are you telling me to that after five years with TMC I will still only be at 32% and still only be earning $60K a year?

Of course not. That would literally be a regressive pay scale and I'm sure TMC has a progressive pay scale correlated to the increasingly superior performance I expect to deliver as I become more efficient at tie-down, tarping, route planning, driving, customer service, etc. Just learning the roads alone will increase my performance.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Stick with apples, please.

Quit comparing the first-year superstar to the ten-year slob. Compare the first-year superstar to the ten-year superstar.

In other words . . . if a 32% guy can make $50-60K in Year #1 . . . then what's he likely to make in Year # 10 and how is he making it?


PS . . . and no, an experienced driver won't quit because "a new driver makes as much as him" . . . he'll quit because his standard of living has failed to improve despite having given five years of loyalty and superior performance to the company. Wouldn't you?

No I wouldn't.
IF, and I say IF, I weren't making as much as I could or more than I would be at any other company. I DO make more so I'm happy. Percent pay tops out at 32% but that doesn't mean your PAY tops out.
There are several ways a more experienced driver makes more money.
1) He qualifies for TMC's Specialized, Heavy Haul or Oversized division. (Usually after 5 years) These loads pay WELL!
2) He can become a trainer.
3) He knows the freight lanes better and thus can choose higher paying loads by knowing how to position himself for the best shot at getting a high dollar load. All loads pay differently depending on the commodity and the shipper.
4) He is more efficient, faster and can run more freight in a timely manner and be available for another load sooner.
5) He develops GOOD relationships with his "bosses". The guys who GET you your freight.
And so on.

These talents USUALLY come with experience. However, SOME new guys can learn them much faster than others and thus also make darn good money. Every day a driver is learning and so every day you get a LITTLE better at making more money.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by GoldiesPlating

No I wouldn't.
IF, and I say IF, I weren't making as much as I could or more than I would be at any other company. I DO make more so I'm happy. Percent pay tops out at 32% but that doesn't mean your PAY tops out.
There are several ways a more experienced driver makes more money.
1) He qualifies for TMC's Specialized, Heavy Haul or Oversized division. (Usually after 5 years) These loads pay WELL!
2) He can become a trainer.
3) He knows the freight lanes better and thus can choose higher paying loads by knowing how to position himself for the best shot at getting a high dollar load. All loads pay differently depending on the commodity and the shipper.
4) He is more efficient, faster and can run more freight in a timely manner and be available for another load sooner.
5) He develops GOOD relationships with his "bosses". The guys who GET you your freight.
And so on.

These talents USUALLY come with experience. However, SOME new guys can learn them much faster than others and thus also make darn good money. Every day a driver is learning and so every day you get a LITTLE better at making more money.

OK, got it. That's what I was trying to understand: How do you "move up" as a driver? Makes sense now. Many thanks,

Happy Thanksgiving

[GoldiesPlating]

Originally Posted by Frogman

OK, got it. That's what I was trying to understand: How do you "move up" as a driver? Makes sense now. Many thanks,

Happy Thanksgiving

Ya know you CAN call me ANYTIME! Would have made it MUCH easier!!! LOL My fingers are worn out now from typing!

You too have a GREAT weekend.