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Old 09-15-2006, 10:21 AM
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Default CDL required for POV?

At the place where I store my truck there's some guy there who wants to bet me $1,000 dollars that you don't need a CDL license to drive a tractor with a 53' flatbed and a backhoe on it just as long as it's your own personal stuff.
He said you can drive anything with just a car license just as long as it's for personal use only. I think he's nuts. Is there something on the web that I can print and show him?
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2006, 11:44 AM
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he`s wrong, but if he`s talking farming equipment your wrong, in some cases farmers dont need a cdl to deliver their goods or move equipment.
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:19 PM
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Steve, this is directly off of the Federal website. It explains all requirements and waivers to drive a commercial vehicle.





Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS)
Print

BEFORE THE COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE PROGRAM

It is widely recognized that driving certain commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) requires special skills and knowledge. Prior to implementation of the Commercial Driver's License (CDL) Program, in a number of States and the District of Columbia, any person licensed to drive an automobile could also legally drive a tractor-trailer or a bus. Even in many of the states that did have a classified licensing system, a person was not skills tested in a representative vehicle. As a result, many drivers were operating motor vehicles that they may not have been qualified to drive. In addition, many drivers were able to obtain driver's licenses from more than one State and hide or spread convictions among several driving records and continue to drive.

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 was signed into law on October 27, 1986. The goal of the Act is to improve highway safety by ensuring that drivers of large trucks and buses are qualified to operate those vehicles and to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers from the highways. The Act retained the State's right to issue a driver's license, but established minimum national standards which States must meet when licensing CMV drivers.

The Act corrects the situation taht existed prior to 1986 by making it illegal to hold more than one license and by requiring States to adopt testing and licensing standards for truck and bus drivers to check a person's ability to operate the type of vehicle he/she plans to operate.

It is important to note that the Act does not require drivers to obtain a separate Federal license; it merely requires States to upgrade their existing testing and licensing programs, if necessary, to conform with the Federal minimum standards.

The CDL program places requirements on the CMV driver, the employing motor carrier and the States.

THE DRIVER

Drivers have been required to have a CDL in order to drive a CMV since April 1, 1992.

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has developed and issued standards for testing and licensing CMV drivers. Among other things, the standards require States to issue CDLs to their CMV drivers only after the driver passes knowledge and skills tests administered by the State related to the type of vehicle to be operated. Drivers need CDLs if they are in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle that meets one of the following definitions of a CMV:

Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Endorsements and Restrictions:

Drivers who operate special types of CMVs also need to pass additional tests to obtain any of the following endorsements on their CDL:


T - Double/Triple Trailers (Knowledge test only)

P - Passenger (Knowledge and Skills Tests)

N - Tank Vehicle (Knowledge Test only)

H - Hazardous Materials (Knowledge Test only)

X - Combination of Tank Vehicle and Hazardous Materials


If a driver either fails the air brake component of the general knowledge test or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the driver is issued an air brake restriction, restricting the driver from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.

THE STATES

Knowledge & Skills Tests:

States develop their own tests which must be at least as stringent as the Federal standards. Model driver and examiner manuals and tests have been prepared and distributed to the States to use, if they wish.


The general knowledge test must contain at least 30 questions.

To pass the knowledge tests (general and endorsement), applicants must correctly answer at least 80 percent of the questions.

To pass the skills test, applicants must successfully perform all the required skills (listed in 49 CFR 383.113). The skills test must be taken in a vehicle representative of the type of vehicle that the applicant operates or expects to operate.

Third Party Skills Testing:

Other States, employers, training facilities, governmental departments and agencies, and private institutions can serve as third party skills testers for the State.


Tests must be the same as those given by the State.

Examiners must meet the same qualifications as State examiners.

States must conduct an on-site inspection at least once a year.

At least annually, State employees must evaluate the programs by taking third party tests as if they were test applicants, or by testing a sample of drivers tested by the third party and then comparing pass/fail rates.

The State's agreement with the third party skills tester must allow the FHWA and the State to conduct random examinations, inspections, and audits without prior notice.

Grandfathering Provision:

States have the option to "grandfather" drivers with good driving records from the skills test according to the following criteria:

Driver has a current license at time of application; and Driver has a good driving record and previously passed an acceptable skills test; or driver has a good driving record in combination with certain driving experience .

"Good driving record" means:

A driver can certify that, during the 2-year period immediately prior to applying for a CDL he/she:

Has not had more than one license;
Has not had any license suspended, revoked, or canceled;
Has not had any convictions in any type of motor vehicle for major disqualifying offenses;
Has not had more than one conviction for any type of motor vehicle for serious traffic violations;
Has not had any violation of State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control arising in connection with any traffic accident, and has no record of an accident in which he/she was at fault.

"Driving experience" means :

A driver can certify and provide evidence that:

He/she is regularly employed in a job requiring operation of CMV, and that either:
He/she has previously taken a behind-the-wheel skills test in a representative vehicle; or
He/she has operated a representative vehicle for at least 2 years immediately preceding application for a CDL.

Commercial Driver's License Document:

A State determines the license fee, the license renewal cycle, most renewal procedures, and continues to decide the age, medical and other driver qualifications of its intrastate commercial drivers. Interstate drivers must meet the longstanding Federal driver qualifications (49 CFR 391).

All CDLs must contain the following information:


The words "Commercial Driver's License" or "CDL;"

The driver's full name, signature, and address;

The driver's date of birth, sex, and height

Color photograph or digitized image of the driver;

The driver's State license number;

The name of the issuing State;

The date of issuance and the date of the expiration of the license;
The class(es) of vehicle that the driver is authorized to drive;
Notation of the "air brake" restriction, if issued;
The endorsement(s) for which the driver has qualified;

States may issue learner's permits for purposes of behind-the-wheel training on public highways as long as learner's permit holders are required to be accompanied by someone with a valid CDL appropriate for that vehicle and the learner's permits are issued for limited time periods.

Waiver Provisions:

All active duty military drivers were waived from the CDL requirements by the Federal Highway Administrator. A State, at its discretion, may waive firefighters, emergency response vehicle drivers, farmers and drivers removing snow and ice in small communities from the CDL requirements, subject to certain conditions.

In addition, a State may also waive the CDL knowledge and skills testing requirements for seasonal drivers in farm-related service industries and may waive certain knowledge and skills testing requirements for drivers in remote areas of Alaska. The drivers are issued restricted CDLs. A State can also waive the CDL hazardous materials endorsement test requirements for part-time drivers working for the pyrotechnics industry, subject to certain conditions.

OTHER REQUIREMENTS

There are a variety of other requirements related to this legislation which affect the commercial drivers, their employing motor carriers and the States.

Penalties:

The Federal penalty to a driver who violates the CDL requirements is a civil penalty of up to $2,500 or, in aggravated cases, criminal penalties of up to $5,000 in fines and/or up to 90 days in prison. An employer is also subject to a penalty of up to $10,000, if he or she knowingly uses a driver to operate a CMV without a valid CDL.

CDLIS Clearinghouse:

States must be connected to the Commercial Driver's License Information System (CDLIS) and the National Driver Register (NDR) in order to exchange information about CMV drivers, traffic convictions, and disqualifications. A State must use both the CDLIS and NDR to check a driver's record, and the CDLIS to make certain that the applicant does not already have a CDL. Members of the enforcement community seeking access to CDLIS data should visit the FMCSA Technical Support Web site. Carriers needing CDLIS data should seek a commercial company that provides a clearinghouse service for this information, or contact the driver's State of licensure.

BAC Standards:

The FHWA has also established 0.04% as the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level at or above which a CMV driver is deemed to be driving under the influence of alcohol and subject to the disqualification sanctions in the Act. States maintain a BAC level between .08% and .10% for non-CMV drivers.

Employer Notifications:

Within 30 days of a conviction for any traffic violation, except parking, a driver must notify his/her employer, regardless of the nature of the violation or the type of vehicle which was driven at the time.

If a driver's license is suspended, revoked, canceled, or if he/she is disqualified from driving, his/her employer must be notified. The notification must be made by the end of the next business day following receipt of the notice of the suspension, revocation, cancellation, lost privilege or disqualification.

Employers may not knowingly use a driver who has more than one license or whose license is suspended, revoked or canceled, or is disqualified from driving. Violation of this requirement may result in civil or criminal penalties.

Disqualifications:

For conviction while driving a CMV , drivers must be disqualified and lose their privilege to drive for 60 to 120 days:
Two or more serious traffic violations within a 3-year period. These include excessive speeding, reckless driving, improper or erratic lane changes, following the vehicle ahead too closely, and traffic offenses in connection with fatal traffic accidents 90 days to 5 years.
One or more violations of an out-of-service order within a 10-year period.1 Year
Driving under the influence of a controlled substance or alcohol; or
Leaving the scene of an accident; or Using a CMV to commit a felony.3 Years:
Any of the 1-year offenses while operating a CMV that is placarded for hazardous materials. Life
Second offense of any of the 1-year or 3-year offenses; or Using a CMV to commit a felony involving manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing controlled substances.
States have the option to reduce certain lifetime disqualifications to a minimum disqualification period of 10 years if the driver completes a driver rehabilitation program approved by the State.
If a CDL holder is disqualified from operating a CMV, the State may issue him/her a license to operate non-CMVs. Drivers who are disqualified from operating a CMV can not be issued a "conditional" or "hardship" CDL or any other type of limited driving privileges to continue driving a CMV.
For disqualification purposes, convictions for out-of-state violations will be treated the same as convictions for violations that are committed in the home State. The CDLIS will ensure that convictions a driver receives outside his or her home State are transmitted to the home State so that the disqualifications can be applied.

CURRENT STATUS OF THE CDL PROGRAM

Over 8 million drivers have passed the knowledge and skills tests and obtained a CDL. Approximately 11 percent of these CDL drivers have been disqualified at least once during the period of April 1992 through June 1996.

Building on the success of the CDL program, the FMCSA is exploring ways to enhance and improve the effectiveness of the CDL program. Some of the current enhancements and future enhancements being considered include:

Current:

Driver Data Exchange With Canada and Mexico.
CDL Judicial Outreach Project (JOP).

Future:

Graduated Commercial Licenses.
Third Party CDL Knowledge Testing.
Merging Medical Fitness Determination Into CDL Process.
Simulator Validation for Training & Testing.

Evaluating Commercial Driver's License Program Vulnerabilities A study of the states of Illinois and Florida
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:29 PM
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I skimmed over Gman's post briefly, and didn't see anything covering what I know to have been going on for years. My son-in-law was running a Ford 1-ton with a 44 foot trailer and hauling freight. The truck was licensed for 25,999 and since he was the owner of the truck and trailer, he did not repuire a CDL. He did require a DOT PHYSICAL CARD. And, because he only has one eye, he also required a waiver on that. He was hauling hot-tubs out of FL up into CT and hauling cars back.

However, the "cut-off" for that is 26,000 pounds. Even if it's an RV, and over 26,000 LB, you require a CDL. Even if you buy an old school bus and convert it to an RV, if DOT sees a plate rivetted above the windshield that says GVWR 26,001, you need a CDL to drive it.

My son-in-law was pulled around back in FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, TN, LA, and IL. He did get a few over-weight fines, but not one of the states said he could not drive his own vehicle. Again, it was UNDER 26,000 LBs.

The guy that's telling you he can pull a 53' flatbed with a backhoe is "full of it". If he's talking about a normal commercial truck with the kind of flatbed trailers that Gman pulls, he's not going to get beyond the first time he's stopped. Even empty, it's over 26,000 and he is required to have a CDL. Farm use, maybe, but don't try going interstate.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:26 PM
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He will probably not even be able to get insurance without a valid CDL. Some states will take you to jail for not having insurance or valid license.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:59 PM
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This is a direct quote from the Missouri CDL study manual

Quote:
Exemptions
Page 13-3
Only the following commercial drivers are exempt from the CDL law:
�� A person transporting agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies,
or a combination of these, within 150 miles of the farm, if the driver is a
farmer, family member of the farmer, or an employee of the farmer. This does
not include someone who is a common or contract carrier, or to any vehicle
which must otherwise be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Transportation
Act.
�� Any person driving military vehicles for military purposes which includes active
duty military personnel, a member of the reserves or national guard on
"Full-time Training Duty" or "inactive Duty for Training" and national guard
military technicians.
�� Any person in the employ of a fire organization or a member of a volunteer fire
organization, driving emergency or fire equipment necessary to the preservation
of life or property or to the execution of emergency governmental functions
under emergency conditions. This exemption also allows the operation
of such equipment in other functions such as parades, special events, repair,
service or other authorized movements.
�� Anyone driving or pulling a recreational vehicle for personal use.
�� Any person driving for personal use, a commercial motor vehicle while transporting
personal property, such as household goods of his/her own or another.
�� Certain construction equipment not intended for use on the highway, such as
backhoes, motor graders, motor scrapers, excavators, bulldozers, etc.

The man is correct by this Exemption...
Any person driving for personal use, a commercial motor vehicle while transporting personal property, such as household goods of his/her own or another.

AS long as it is all his own property and he is not charging to haul for another he can haul without a CDL. Same thing if the Rig is set up as a motor home/recreational vehicle does not need CDL. The Key wording here is "for personal use"

But the truck must be marked as such "Pivate Vehicle" Not for Hire ect...
It is then no longer a CMV
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webby
This is a direct quote from the Missouri CDL study manual

Quote:
Exemptions
Page 13-3
Only the following commercial drivers are exempt from the CDL law:
�� A person transporting agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies,
or a combination of these, within 150 miles of the farm, if the driver is a
farmer, family member of the farmer, or an employee of the farmer. This does
not include someone who is a common or contract carrier, or to any vehicle
which must otherwise be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Transportation
Act.
�� Any person driving military vehicles for military purposes which includes active
duty military personnel, a member of the reserves or national guard on
"Full-time Training Duty" or "inactive Duty for Training" and national guard
military technicians.
�� Any person in the employ of a fire organization or a member of a volunteer fire
organization, driving emergency or fire equipment necessary to the preservation
of life or property or to the execution of emergency governmental functions
under emergency conditions. This exemption also allows the operation
of such equipment in other functions such as parades, special events, repair,
service or other authorized movements.
�� Anyone driving or pulling a recreational vehicle for personal use.
�� Any person driving for personal use, a commercial motor vehicle while transporting
personal property, such as household goods of his/her own or another.
�� Certain construction equipment not intended for use on the highway, such as
backhoes, motor graders, motor scrapers, excavators, bulldozers, etc.

The man is correct by this Exemption...
Any person driving for personal use, a commercial motor vehicle while transporting personal property, such as household goods of his/her own or another.

AS long as it is all his own property and he is not charging to haul for another he can haul without a CDL. Same thing if the Rig is set up as a motor home/recreational vehicle does not need CDL. The Key wording here is "for personal use"

But the truck must be marked as such "Pivate Vehicle" Not for Hire ect...
It is then no longer a CMV
Be aware if the backhoe itself is ever used for hire the exemption does not apply. Also the exemption about construction equipment refers to driving the machine on the highway not hauling it.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:49 AM
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Hauling intra-state will depend on the laws of that state.

In Maine I could register any vehicle with FARM plates for my parents farm and drive it on farm business. I think there may be a radius restriction, perhaps 150 air miles. Any farm owner(s) or employee(s) may operate any vehicle with farm plates with a regular class C license. Farm plated vehicles may only conduct farm business. A farm vehicle can't haul any loads for hire. I could in theory haul construction equipment like a backhoe if I was going to use it for an agricultural purpose.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:59 PM
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I believe that states can issue class 'A', 'B', or 'C' licenses without them being CDL licenses. The weight restrictions of 16,000 and 26,000 pounds still apply.

A holder of such a license can not haul commercially. The vehicle is then for private use only.

When I was in trucking school, we filled out an application for the state class 'A' drivers license. On the application there was a box to check if you wanted the license to be a CDL.

I'm not sure, but I would think that a standard class 'A' license would allow you to drive a tractor-trailer, for personal use, but possibly not out of the state.

The same logic appears to also follow for license plates. Where CMV tractors have IRP plates for interstate use, Illinois issues truck plates based on annual mileage and truck plates based on weight. I've been told that other states may give you a hard time if you're pulled over and they may not recognize them as legal on their roads.

The DOT in Washington has also told me that you do not have to comply with HOS or any DOT regulations if you are using the truck for personal use, but that all police agencies and DOT officers will not necessarily know that.
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:57 AM
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I know several in Missouri that are not required to have a CDL because of farm or its personal property even if they use it to haul a back hoe or even a dump truck. The catch is most insurance company's are requiring those people to get CDL's in order to be insurable.
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