[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Roadhog

I thought this Nazi stuff only happened on the borders with that NSA warrant-less surveillance. I'd never give consent to a search like this, whether that matters or not. I never freely give up my Rights.

Just as a matter of debate, Hoggie.... you DO realize that it was Dubya who violated the Constitution in allowing such warrantless searches on American citizens, right? HE (and his conservative supporters in congress) are the ones trying to take these rights away from you.... NOT the Dems! NOT OBAMA.... and NOT BILL CLINTON.

[Mystikal]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Yes and no. As an agent for your employer (owner of the "property") or as an O/O who DOES own the poperty, you have the same rights as any driver of an auto when pulled over by police. You can refuse to give permission, but they probably will NOT let you go back to sleep while they get a warrant.... which they can easily due based almost solely on your refusal.

And there is NO WAY that they have some kind of "blanket warrant" from a judge to search every truck on the lot. Search warrants must be VERY specific about the identification, location, and ownership of any property to be searched... AND what is being searched for and WHAT they expect to find. To the extent that.... if something was found that was not listed on the warrant?..... it can be suppressed in court!

You are correct hobo.. they have to specifically name why they are searching, what they are searching for, and what the probable cause is for it. No such thing as a blanket warrant. I speculate if the facts are correct, this was an illegal search and suspect the drivers don't know how to sidestep around it. I would have asked if they had probable cause, under what grounds, and what proof they have. If they don't have sufficent evidence they cannot search per the constitution. However, I don't know if the fact its a commercial vehicle plays into the fact.. I know this just from a personally owned vehicle standpoint. If there is sufficent evidence that they can prove, however, and you refuse your most likely going to jail since your interfering. I would suggest though that if you have nothing to hide your best bet is to just cooperate with a smile as it will speed the process up.

3 years former law enforcement and bachelors in criminal justice speaking to the fact.

[Roadhog]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Just as a matter of debate, Hoggie.... you DO realize that it was Dubya who violated the Constitution in allowing such warrantless searches on American citizens, right? HE (and his conservative supporters in congress) are the ones trying to take these rights away from you.... NOT the Dems! NOT OBAMA.... and NOT BILL CLINTON.

I have made my contempt for all politicians clear on this message board and have not been persuaded otherwise. Saint Obama can bash Bush until his diarrhea boils for all I care. I am steadfast in my belief all politicians are liars, scum, corrupt, and not worth the air they breathe. If there are a few of these smiling basterds who are not total scum, minor detail, because give them a year, and they too will be seduced by power and money. They all need to be voted out, and many of them thrown in prision, along with their lobbyists, lawyers, and especially "some" of their corrupt self-interest financial backers. There needs to be term limits. Politics should never be a career.

I understand why this NSA warrant-less surveillance was determined necessary, after 9/11. But as we all can see, you can not trust the government with any extra or temporary power. We have all seen blatantly clear, what these lying scum are like. Not one single one of them can be trusted or expected to ever do the right thing. Now we see them swinging to the other extreme! A pre-9/11 mentality. Is there no sanity left in Washington D.C.?

Todays administration is the biggest threat to America that I have ever witnessed. In my opinion, in less than one year, America has become unrecognizable. I see this administration concerned entirely on it's own liberal ideology and wish list, at the expense of a Nation, and against the will of the majority. I have always summed this up, by declaring, I view this out of control liberalism as our Countries greatest threat.

:block:

[Roadhog]

NSA warrant-less surveillance was a policy designed to aid in the fight against the war on terror. There are tons of articles on the history and debates over this policy.

The policy was expanded in the case of Border Search Exception, which directly effects Truckers. This raid in Effingham, Illinois is an example of how this went too far, in my opinion. Like I mentioned in my first post on this thread, I thought this was suppose to be confined to border searches.

This exception permitted searches at the border of the USA. The idea was that the USA as a sovereign nation has the right to inspect stuff entering or exiting the country as a way of protecting its sovereign interests, and that the Fourth Amendment permits such searches. There were fears this would be abused, in the case of international airline travel, and even all international postal mail to be searched, and into domestic communications.

It's no question, government has lost all credibility and public trust. Their sheit stinks on ice, and we see continuing examples of this daily, now.

[olddog]

Right-on ROADHOG!

They are ALL liars!

I DON'T MAKE JOKES! I WATCH OUR GOVERNMENT AND JUST REPORT THE FACTS!
Will Rogers

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

What bothers me the most is the lack of guidance to professionals concerning the HOS of the drivers.

Apparently, the spokesman for the Illinois State Police is not sure how to interpret the regs and how they would apply to this question (that we have discussed here on CAD several times.) He seems to subscribe to the Rev. Vassago "magical 15 minutes" theory. (Cousin to the magic bullet theory.)

No, it's not a matter of not being sure. If he went strictly by the book, and the guidance, he would also have to admit that the searches were out of order. He's got to be vague or he'll step on their toes. Once the sleep period is interrupted, the clock starts over. And, as a driver, I'd ask for documentation that they did not find anything in my truck. Or better yet, documentation that they interrupted my sleep, so that when I got to my appointment late, I could show that to them. Let the cops take the heat for it. (not that they'd get much heat out of it.)

[straightflush]

bottom line guys is, america WAS the land of the free ,but not longer will we enjoy that feeling that brought this country out of 1929 depresion ,that spirit is gone or at leats neutralized bye those to swear to protects us ,bs ,is what it is,we all know that crap rolls down hill ,and guess what ,WE AT THE VERY BOTTOM.

[snoopyandpuppy]

As a cop, those guys had no legal reason to be on the property of the truck stop.....let alone harassing truck drivers that were sleeping. If they had a reason to be there or probable cause to search one (or more) trucks .....thats fine, but it sounds more like BS to me if thats the way it happened.

[Skywalker]

The bigger question is: Why don't professional drivers start voting with their money? BOYCOTT EFFINGHAM, IL!!! Don't stop there, don't fuel there, don't do jack**** there! Face it, politically the entire state of Illinois is a cesspool, always has been, and always will be.

The only way to prevent the crap is to refuse to spend money there. There are a number of jobs in that town that depend on the trucking industry and the dollars that drivers spend. Take away the income, and pressure comes to bear on the guilty parties. Just make sure when you pass through there that you give them no reason to stop you. One of the backbones of the Civil Rights Movement was "economic boycotts"....and it worked!

Stop there if you have to for your break...just don't spend any money....but what would work even better is not stopping at all. Do you think after a sufficient period of time with enough businesses suffering economic losses that someone at Flying J/Pilot, TA and Petro as well as a couple of restaurants and the other local businesses wouldn't get off their collective backsides and have a rather strongly worded conversation with the Mayor and bring pressure to bear?

I just found out about this issue...but I will tell you this... I won't be stopping in Effingham for anything any time soon!

Basically...it was nothing more than some small town goobers jacking truck drivers around.

[Warlock]

What would happen if you didn't get up to answer the door? What if you were out of the truck?