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Dejanh 09-19-2009 02:09 AM


Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 462784)
Not all blacks who came to this country did so as slaves. It has been about 150 years since any blacks were held as slaves in America. There isn't a single black who is alive today who was a slave in this country. There isn't a single white living to day who was a slave owner. It is time to move on and forget about what may have happened in the past. Jews were slaves in Egypt for hundreds of years. Blacks who were slaves were never subject to the genocide that the Jews experienced in Germany. And you didn't have to be black to work in the cotton fields in the south. I had relatives who raised cotton and picked it themselves. Some did so when I grew up. There were sharecroppers and farmers throughout the south who raised and picked cotton themselves, without the help of slaves. There were also indentured servants in this country during the time of slavery. Those were mostly whites from Europe who basically sold themselves into slavery so that they could come to America. You can't classify all blacks as slaves and all whites as slave owners. This planet has a history of enslaving people. I think the saddest part of the blacks who were slaves is that they were sold into slavery by their own people or other tribes. It wasn't the white man who enslaved them. The Dutch are the ones who brought many of those enslaved to America. Slavery was not a good thing by any stretch of the imagination. But there comes a time when we all need to put the past where it belongs. I could see this issue making more sense if it happened to those who are alive today. This happened about 7 generations ago. It should have no bearing on our lives today. As long as those in government and those with special interests, such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson can use race to divide us, we will never be one people.

No, i agree with you.

BUT, there is still big divide amongst whites and blacks even though it has been 150 years since the slavery. I dont think Al Sharpton has anything to with it.

Rev.Vassago 09-19-2009 02:48 AM


Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 462775)
I heard him state that he was Muslim. It wasn't hearsay nor reported by the media. He stated that he was Muslim in a speech that he gave to some leaders while he visited the Middle East. It matters because he lied. I believe that what people say matters. It show character or lack thereof.

Ok, so now I'd challenge you to produce a video of him stating this, but you've already said this mystery speech wasn't reported by the media. Which leads me to the question....


How did YOU see it in the first place?

If such a speech did exist, Hillary would have plastered it all over the place. So would McCain. So I say prove it. You claim to have heard the speech, which means you were either present during the speech, or video exists.



He attended a so called Christian church who's pastor is a racist, if you believe your ears. Racism isn't part of the Christian faith, or shouldn't. He did finally leave that church after so much media attention and over 20 years later. I would not have stayed in a church that promotes racism.

Sorry, GMAN, but you're wrong. Christianity was FOUNDED on racism, pitting the Jews against the Egyptians. The Old Testament is riddled with not only racism, but slavery, sexism, incest, etc. Christianity, as presented in the Bible, is one of the most violent religions imaginable.


I also think that the Muslims want to over throw this government or bring this country to it's knees. Obama is doing a great job for them. They should be proud of the job their fellow Muslim brother is doing for them in bringing down the "Great Satan" (America). He may just purport to be what is convenient to get what he wants. He may just be a socialist or fascist. In any case, his actions show a disdain for the basic values most Americans hold dear. He appears to be doing everything he can to destroy this country.
Ok, now you're just showing how ignorant you are about other religions, races, and cultures. How many Muslims do you personally know, GMAN? Do you even know anyone who is a Muslim? I am proud to say that I in fact do. His name is Khashayar, he was born in Iran, and he moved here as a teenager. Every time he hears someone spew the kind of bigoted, racist garbage that you just did, he is disheartened that humanity is that gullible and ignorant. The following is from a piece he wrote about this very thing. I challenge you to read it, and rather than listen to what the puppet masters want you to think about a race of people (Muslims) and the religion they follow (Islam), that you draw your own conclusions based on FACTS, rather than racist, bigoted, stereotypical garbage:


There are times, every now and then, that I just get fed up with all the hypocrisy and idiocy that goes around. There are plenty of different biased, unreasonable and ridiculous propagandas that have started circulating the Net that I happen to come by. For me personally, I’ve decided enough is enough. If people read all the crap on the web, maybe they should read mine too. If someone is willing to read what I have to say, then it’s worth writing because after all, they might learn something from it or, it might give them another point of view to think about. Or I’ll just be adding to the hypocrisy and propaganda– Whatever I can do to help!



Today, I’m going to talk about Islam. Not about what a horrible religion it is, how it allows men to treat their wives and daughters badly, or even that all infidels must die. No, today, I’m going to talk about what a peaceful religion it is, the stereotypes and ignorant opinions that have been based around it, what injustices people have done in its name and most importantly, if I were ever to be persuaded towards the path of god, I would most likely choose a denomination of this religion over others I’ve read about.



Infidel is a term recently “coined” by certain news groups which identifies the people who are not of the Muslim faith. For the Christians, it would be the Latin “Infidelis” or “Heretic” and for the Jewish people it’s “Gentiles”. Infidel by itself means “One without Faith”, and I’m not sure how current you are with your historical studies, but the same exact term was used by the Roman Catholic Church around the year 1460 A.C. to describe all those who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Now in the Arabic language, the actual word that these “Subject Matter Experts” (more like brain washers to me) keep referring to as infidel, is “Kafir” which in translation, means anyone who does not believe in the one god, which does not include Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Surprised? Muslims believe almost all monotheistic religions were brought to us by messengers of god. Islam itself, by definition, means the religion of peace. So rather than doing just a little bit of research, the majority of Americans get on this kick about how Muslims are here to kill everyone else off the face of the planet. The Islamic clerics have even forbidden the use of the word Kafir because it is considered to be offensive and the Qur’an commands the use of kind words.



This brings me to the term “Jihad”. Jihad has been wrongly translated and advertised to the public as the holy war of the Muslims against the world. Jihad, literally, means an internal struggle, a struggle one has within himself or herself to finally be able to completely and without a doubt believe in the one god and to have the willingness to surrender their entire being in god’s service. And yet, something with such a powerful meaning has been translated into an act of evil, death and destruction and unfortunately, there are those in this world who are buying it.



Now that I’ve gotten everyone’s favorite terms out of the way, I’d like to tell you about Islam itself and the Qur’an, which is the only book of god that I’ve read from end to end (I’ve read the others but not cover to cover). The most important part of Islam to me is the fact that it actually doesn’t require you to believe in Islam to go to heaven, unlike most other monotheistic religions do. The Qur’an talks about, and names, 124 prophets, including Abraham, Noah, the guy in the whale’s stomach that I never remember the name of, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, etc. all of which brought the word of god to their people of the time with one variation or another of the same message. In the Qur’an, it states that to be able to go to heaven, one only need to believe in the message of one of these prophets and to believe in one, all power-full god. Comparatively, for Christianity, if one does not believe in Jesus as the son of god, he will go to hell.


The Qur’an, is just like the Bible or the Torah, it has the same characters, same stories and the same morals. The Qur’an puts an extremely high emphasis on the importance of women. It is written that women are supposed to be held higher than men, because they can birth children (sure, this is a horrible reason for women to be held highly, but 1400 years ago, the average life expectancy was 40 years and they needed to keep the population up….). It states that any man who harms a woman out of jealousy, anger or any other reason must be punished harshly, with the maximum sentence being death. Sure there are Muslims who beat their wives or treat their daughters badly just because they wanted a son, but look at this country, look at all the low lives you always hear about, shooting their family members, murdering their own children, beating their wives and kids, but they’re just viewed as a few stupid rednecks, white trash or ghetto garbage, not as an entire community, country or organization of people who are bad or evil. But when it happens in a Muslim country, it’s because Islam ordered them to.



The majority of the people think of Muslim countries as third world, poor and dirty places to be looked down upon. The Qur’an is the only holy book that puts extreme emphasis on hygiene. It requires everyone to wash their face, hands and feet five times a day before prayers. Muslims were also the first to use anything resembling a toothbrush, using bark from date trees to clean their teeth. What Americans don’t realize is that this country would not be able to function without the innovations Muslims gave us. One of the most consumed products in the world that we all depend on in the morning to wake us up and allow us to actually get some work done, the brewed coffee, was invented by Muslims. And I know how much this country loves their bottled water. Well, it was Muslims who invented distillation and water purification. Another thing the Muslims invented, without which wine connoisseurs would have had to get real jobs, was Sharab, in English meaning wine (there are many references to drinking wine prior to the emergence of Islam, but the Muslims came up with the fermenting and refining method used in modern times).



Islam is a belief system of faith and at the same time advancement, science and technology. All the inventions by the Muslims, without which modern life as we know it would be quite different, was prompted by the Qur’an. Islam is the one religion I know of, that actually promotes learning and advancement. Growing up in an Islamic country, I had religion instructors who would give us assignments on disproving Islam or proving that god does not exist, simply because they wanted the students to make an informed decision. The instructors wanted to make sure, if a student was going to believe in Islam and follow its guidelines, that they truly understood what it meant to be a Muslim and to have complete faith in the one god. To date, I have never seen any other religion be tolerant enough to allow such studies. This type of free thinking is what allowed many Muslims to be able to invent things that we use today, without worrying about retaliation by the religious clerics or persecution for technology that might be considered against god’s will and testament.



The Muslims were the first to refine oil and use it as fuel, use tar to pave roads and build a bridge dam, set-up central heating, come up with cosmetic dentistry and beauty parlors. They were the first to make soap, toothpaste, perfume, deodorants, and (mostly for the ladies) chemical hair removers and they were also the first to set-up degree granting universities. And these are only the tip of the iceberg; the list goes on and on. So next time you decide to talk bad about Islam and how horrible it is, or someone else does and you decide to believe them, think of all the commodities and services you have available, which would have been non-existent or at least centuries behind where they are now if the Muslims had not had the freedom of thought and experimentation that Islam allowed them.



If Muslims are so against Christians and Jews, why would Iran (which was named one of the seven axes of evil), allow churches, synagogues and fire temples to be built and for people to attend services there, just as the Muslims go to the mosques? How is it that I grew up in an Islamic country, I had my best friend who was a Christian, and not once in my entire life did I ever hear anyone talk bad about him? How is it that even though prayers are mandatory during the preset times for Muslims and all students at school must attend the ceremony, my friends who were Christians, Jews or believers of Zoroastrianism got to play in the playground, and not have Islam shoved down their throats? It makes one wonder, how did the media manage to make such a monster out of a whole, when the ones responsible for these horrible acts are in such small minority.



There are two major sects of Islam, with a few smaller ones, one of which, I will talk about also. The majority of Muslims in the world are Sunnis, they believe in god, the prophet Mohammad and four disciples (Imams) that came after him, the first one being named Ali, and the second one being his uncle, and the third and fourth ones being his uncles descendants. The Shiites also believe in god, and the prophet Mohammad and Ali as the first disciple, but they believe in a total of twelve disciples (Imams). They believe the second one down were Ali’s descendants. The Shiites believe that the twelfth disciple never died and went straight to heaven (just as the Christians believe Jesus did), and that during Armageddon, this twelfth disciple will return and with him, he will have an army of all the prophets of god that have come and gone. So if you were ever wondering about the difference between Shiites and Sunnis but never bothered to look it up, now you know the short answer to it. For the most part, Arabic countries are Sunnis and Iran is the biggest and most predominant Shiite country in the world. And in case you’re wondering, the reason for this is because the descendants of Ali, the first disciple, moved to Iran due to being persecuted against by the Arabs and from the fifth disciple on, they were born, raised and lived their lives in Iran.



There are of course a number of different sects of Islam (denominations), just like Christianity, some of which are Sikhism, Bab’i, Baha’i and Sufism. It is worth noting that unlike most Christian denominations, which are acceptable variations of the same religion, followers of one Islamic denomination, generally do not recognize followers of other denominations as fellow Muslims, which is why the Sunnis and Shiites have been in conflict for so many years. I can only say I’ve done extensive studies on only one of the smaller denominations which happens to be the number one on my list of tolerant, peaceful and scientifically and technologically minded beliefs. It is called the Baha’i Faith. It started about two hundred and fifty years ago by Baha’u’llah who was bringing a new message from god. A new look at Islam and ways to improve it for modern times (something that Christianity and Judaism have been lacking and in dire need of the quite a few centuries). Some may argue Mormonism is a new way of Christianity, but again, I’m talking about changing an old religion into something that applies to modern times, not to make it even more weird and confusing. Baha’u’llah’s followers, known as the Baha’i’s, began to believe in him as the twelfth disciple of Shiites who had come not to end the world, but to give a new message to the people, to make Islam a religion relevant to the lives of the people of the modern world.



To Baha’i’s, it doesn’t matter whether you’re black, white, a Muslim, Christian, Jew or even agnostic or atheist, they believe that so long as you live your life having a set of morals and values, and do not intentionally harm others for your own pleasure, gain, etc. you will go to heaven. So here’s a faith that says all you have to do is be a good person and you’ll end up in heaven. This, is a belief that I believe surpasses all else, and I think everyone should heed its teachings. To be as good a person as you possibly can be, and yet, not feeling obligated to believe in a god or higher power, even though the superficial comforts it would give you are sometimes very enticing.



I do believe that there are fanatics out there; those who create a bad image for everyone else. Those who, the American government and media try to tie in with the rest of the Muslim community. And unfortunately, since US citizens have had it hammered into their heads since birth that they live in the “best country in the world”, the majority of them do not believe for a second that the media might just actually be lying. To these people, it’s impossible for the government to not tell the truth and of course the reporters and journalists provide the news just because it’s such gosh darn great job and the reporters and station owners never stand to gain political and viewer approval if they twist the news to their own end.



Can it be possible that not all of over three billion Muslims in the world are murderous lunatics? It’s been estimated that the Muslim extremists include less than one percent of the entire Islamic community, but have you ever heard that on the news or read about it in the papers or online? Or for that matter, have you ever seen anything but riots, flag burning or people sitting in the streets crying and mourning their dead? Of course not, small militia groups picking fights with the rest of the world don’t make for entertaining journalism anymore; today’s audience needs something exciting, something life threatening, something that may even herald the end of the world (even though Christians have already thought Revelations has been happening for a thousand years), to actually start paying attention, so everything is blown out of proportion, just for morbid amusement. And if the media actually mentions that most people in Islamic countries live happy, content lives, everyone will immediately lose interest.



Now please don’t get me wrong, these militia groups have committed hundreds of heinous and horrendous acts, the worse of which I believe was 9/11, considering that every single casualty of that attack, was an innocent civilian. I’m just saying they shouldn’t be bunched up with the rest of the community as if it’s an evil race of people committing these acts.



If Islam is to blame for the death and destruction that is going around, then the blood of all those murdered during the crusades lay on the hands of the Christians. Judaism has made those of its faith believe to be a different race than everyone else, which is why they were targeted by the Nazi army and were rounded up in the concentration camps. Now the Nazis arrested many different groups and races of people in their concentration camps; Jews, homosexuals, certain Christian groups, etc. but the Holocaust has come to be known as the attempted genocide of the Jewish people.



Religion isn’t at fault for any of these things, its people; people kill people. That is the way it’s worked throughout the history of mankind. But, mankind isn’t man enough to just say, you know what, I just plain don’t like, so I’m going to kill you, or I want what you have and I refuse to ask for it or buy it, or I just think killing you will be fun. No, mankind has to come up with a million different unrelated reasons to blame the other person for something before death can be justified, no matter how ridiculous the reasoning behind it is.



Muslim extremists would be killing people under Christianity’s name if Islam had never come around. The crusaders would have attacked the other European countries for not accepting their king as the messenger of god, or in the name of Judaism or under the name of Ares, the god of war if Christianity had never come around. My point here is, religion is an easy excuse for killing and blood shed and throughout history, there has been plenty of it going on under the name of one religion or another, it really doesn’t matter what it’s called or what beliefs it entails, as long as it can somehow justify a war.



Throughout history man has shown a weakness in needing to believe in a higher power and an afterlife to make this life worth living, whether it was to allow him to stop thinking about life after death, stop worrying about life on this planet, and probably to blame all the horrible things that happen in this lifetime on a higher power who knows best. This has caused numerous people to pop up throughout history claiming to be prophets and each bringing a new religion, a new book, but a variation of the same old stories just to make it fit better for a more advanced and more civilized community, since each major religion is about five hundred to a thousand years apart. Most religions in the world have caused wars, none of which were actually commanded by the laws, regulations or commandments of the particular religion, but they all started by someone deciding that their interpretation of a specific religion was more important and the only true way compared to someone else’s. And unfortunately, in our country today, some Americans even go as far as to view other citizens of this country who have converted to Islam as bad people and terrorists.
I am sick and tired of all of the misinformation that is being thrown about in regards to our President, as well as different races and religions in general. GMAN, I think you're far better than this drivel that you've been throwing about.

freebirdrfd 09-19-2009 03:45 AM

you tell'em gman. al sharpton and jesse jackson are nothing but pieces of s**t trouble makers !!!!!!

mommee 09-19-2009 04:05 AM

i agree that sharpton and jackson are part of the problem. they are too quick to condemn a white man. i am sick of al shaprton looking so rightious all the time. what about tawana brawley, remember her? the officer's name was smeared all over the paper and then it came out it was all a lie. can anyone recall shaprton offering his apologies?

and again, it's not whether he is really muslim or not, it's how he uses it. look at what what he does and not what he says.

dobry4u 09-19-2009 04:17 AM


Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago (Post 462790)
I am sick and tired of all of the misinformation that is being thrown about in regards to our President, as well as different races and religions in general. GMAN, I think you're far better than this drivel that you've been throwing about.

X2 Let's get the facts GMAN instead of your obsession!

GMAN 09-19-2009 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago (Post 462790)
Ok, so now I'd challenge you to produce a video of him stating this, but you've already said this mystery speech wasn't reported by the media. Which leads me to the question....


How did YOU see it in the first place?

If such a speech did exist, Hillary would have plastered it all over the place. So would McCain. So I say prove it. You claim to have heard the speech, which means you were either present during the speech, or video exists.

I saw it in an excerpt on one of the news programs when he visited the Middle East. I believe it was while he was in Saudi Arabia. I was surprised that the media didn't say much, if anything about it. He did say that he was Muslim. I am sure that there is video of it, I just have no idea of where to look. Who knows, perhaps he was talking about his Muslim heritage. His father was a Muslim and he did study in Muslim schools in Africa when he was young. There is no need for Hillary to get involved in it because she has what she wants and he is likely to get her healthcare program through if it can be done.



Sorry, GMAN, but you're wrong. Christianity was FOUNDED on racism, pitting the Jews against the Egyptians. The Old Testament is riddled with not only racism, but slavery, sexism, incest, etc. Christianity, as presented in the Bible, is one of the most violent religions imaginable.

What is your proof that Christianity is based upon racism? Christianity is about love and understanding and a belief in one GOD. I am not sure where you got the idea that Christianity pitted the Jews against the Egyptians. The Egyptians enslaved the Jews, but I don't understand how you can make the stretch that it was the Christians who did that. If I remember correctly, Christianity didn't come into being until after the Jews were freed out of Egypt. I don't have my Bible with me to research the time line. The Bible doesn't teach racism. There are many things in the Bible which includes incest, adultry, slavery and other things, but I don't know of anything in the Bible which condones that type of behavior. In fact, the opposite is true. If you can show me different then please do so.


Ok, now you're just showing how ignorant you are about other religions, races, and cultures. How many Muslims do you personally know, GMAN? Do you even know anyone who is a Muslim? I am proud to say that I in fact do. His name is Khashayar, he was born in Iran, and he moved here as a teenager. Every time he hears someone spew the kind of bigoted, racist garbage that you just did, he is disheartened that humanity is that gullible and ignorant. The following is from a piece he wrote about this very thing. I challenge you to read it, and rather than listen to what the puppet masters want you to think about a race of people (Muslims) and the religion they follow (Islam), that you draw your own conclusions based on FACTS, rather than racist, bigoted, stereotypical garbage:

It wasn't a loving people who attacked this country on 9/11. It was people who said that they were Muslims. The Muslims have sworn to kill Americans and anyone who stands in their way to force the world into believing the way that they do. I am not a racist nor am I bigoted. In fact, I have a doctor who is a Muslim. Does that count? He is a good man and doctor. I would hate to lose him. We have discussed some of the things that are going on and he dislikes it as much as I do. However, unless Muslim leaders condemn what others are doing in the name of Islam then we must assume that they condone their behavior. I have studied other cultures in college. You see I had dual majors in International Management and International Marketing. One area in which we spend a considerable amount of time studying was the Middle East. One of my professors spent time in the region and was very helpful in relating some of the culture to us. While I have not studied the Koran, I have read some of it. The Bible doesn't talk about destroying people who don't believe as you do. The Koran does. There have been otrocities committed in the name of GOD which were not of GOD nor did it follow the Bible. The Middle Ages comes to mind. During the Middle Ages Christians, Jews and Muslims lived in peace in Jerusalem. That seemed to change after the Crusades.


I am sick and tired of all of the misinformation that is being thrown about in regards to our President, as well as different races and religions in general. GMAN, I think you're far better than this drivel that you've been throwing about.

I have not related nor do I recall anything being said about the president that wasn't true. If you find something that I have stated that is incorrect then I will apologize.

GMAN 09-19-2009 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by dobry4u (Post 462800)
X2 Let's get the facts GMAN instead of your obsession!


I am not sure what facts you are referring, dobry4u. What do you think that I am obsessing about?

Rev.Vassago 09-19-2009 11:37 AM


It wasn't a loving people who attacked this country on 9/11. It was people who said that they were Muslims. The Muslims have sworn to kill Americans and anyone who stands in their way to force the world into believing the way that they do.
Ok, from here on in, only nutjob Christians are representative of all Christians. Abortion doctor killers, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, the Salem Witch hunts, etc.; they now represent you and your beliefs.

How do you like them apples?

Or perhaps you realize that those are FRINGE groups that did things in the NAME of your god, and didn't represent what your god is about. Perhaps it's time you extend the same courtesy to other religions and people, and stop the bigotry.


The Bible doesn't talk about destroying people who don't believe as you do. The Koran does.
Prove it. There's lots of instances in the Bible of nonbelievers being killed by god, or in the name of god.


There have been otrocities committed in the name of GOD which were not of GOD nor did it follow the Bible.
The same holds true for Islam, now doesn't it? Or do you think you're entitled, and only when Christians do stupid things in the name of their god can one wash their hands of it?


The Middle Ages comes to mind. During the Middle Ages Christians, Jews and Muslims lived in peace in Jerusalem. That seemed to change after the Crusades.
Yeah, having Christians go around and murder you if you didn't change your beliefs will do that.

dobry4u 09-19-2009 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 462843)
I am not sure what facts you are referring, dobry4u. What do you think that I am obsessing about?

I think your distaste for democrats and specifically our president truly clouds your objectivity. For one, the condition of the economy is in fact a global occurrence while you define it as a democratic phenomenon. You are claiming that the president is bringing this country "to its knees" because you believe it is to benefit the Muslims. You have no real basis for your statement. Perhaps there is some racial or religious prejudices in the mix.

mommee 09-19-2009 12:08 PM

yes, there are fringe groups. they are the ones that give everyone else a bad name or the bad stereotype. of course, not all muslims are terrorists.

but gman also makes a good point, that no leader of the middle eastern countries have condemned the acts of 9/11, the bombing of the USS Cole, the bombing of the US embassy in tanzania, the bombing of the world trade center in 1995. i may be mistaken, but no one comes to mind. and i'm sure some even support them secretly.


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