[Mr. Ford95]

Boeing has now joined Valero, CAT, John Deere, AT&T, Verizon, 3M, Medtronic and AK Steel in taking a major quarterly charge.

This Boeing announcement will strike close to home for Obama, since they are based in Chicago, might get his full attention suddenly.

Boeing, Lockheed Expect Health-Care Charges - WSJ.com

Add this onto the WH calling up the above companies and ripping into them for supposedly making false announcements: The American Spectator : Obama in Rude Denial

"My CEO sat with the President over lunch with two other CEOs, and each of them tried to explain to the President what this bill would do to our companies and the economy in general. First the President didn't understand what they were talking about. Then he basically told my boss he was lying. Frankly my boss was embarrassed for him; he clearly had not been briefed and didn't know what was in the bill." It isn't just the President who didn't understand his own proposal.

Late Friday, House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman and Rep. Bart Stupak, chairman of the Oversight and Investigations panel, announced that they would hold hearings in late April to investigate "claims by Caterpillar, Verizon, and Deere that provisions in the new health care reform law could adversely affect their company's ability to provide health insurance to their employees."

Neither Waxman or Stupak -- who betrayed the pro-life community by negotiating for more than a week with the White House to ensure his vote on the health care bill -- had anything more than a cursory understanding of how the many sections of the bill would impact business or even individual citizens before they voted on the bill, says House Energy Democrat staff. "We had memos on these issues, but none of our people, we think, looked at them," says a staffer. "When they saw the stories last week about the charges some of the companies were taking, they were genuinely surprised and assumed that the companies were just doing this to embarrass them. They really believed this bill would immediately lower costs. They just didn't understand what they were voting on."

Hey Dummycrats, if the announcements are false and they are filing false profit reports they can go to jail per the SEC, just ask the Enron folks too. After that mess no CEO or CFO in their right mind would file false reports so you might want to re-think hauling them before Congress because they know their company a whole lot better than you know them. Not that you can force them to open their financial records anyways under privacy laws. If they do open their records, every competitor would then get a look-see and that would put that company out of business.

[Roadhog]

I heard most of these corporations were in favor of ObamaCare all along.
They've had since December when this Senate Bill was first drafted to do the math.
They could have voiced what the potential impact would be to share holders before the Bill was voted on,
and it may have made a difference in whether this insane Bill was ever passed or not.

Regardless of the intimidation tactics this administration is now openly performing, it means nothing.
So what if they make these companies shut up...how do they explain reduced production, and further job losses?

The Feds have bankrupted every program they run.
I think they have already bankrupted ObamaCare, without even running it for one day.

[Mr. Ford95]

Actually the Feds claimed that when they sold off who was it recently, Citi? They claimed they made a huge profit off it something like $8 million or $8 billion. I get your point though, they do have trouble not ruining anything they lay their hands on.

At least one of the companies mentioned above, their CEO was one who had lunch with Obama before the final votes and voiced their opposition to the whole deal but were called a liar by him. What else could they have done? They went right to the top, explained everything and were called liars for it. Now they are being called Republican CEO's for looking out for their own business and workers..........always gotta find a way to blame it on those bad bad Repubs.

[Roadhog]

I heard astronaut Gene Cernan talking with Neil Cavuto about Obama "axing" Nasa to "look into" the Toyota accelerator problem. [our tax dollars]
Cavuto wondered, this isn't rocket science, so why don't they just tell Washington to go take a flyin' fock into orbit... [paraphrased ]
Can't imagine what outcome he expects them to find. (or they'll be designing wingnuts in Beijing)

The Nasa scientists and engineers are afraid of this administration. He said the level of intimidation coming from this administration means
you just bend over grab your ankles and say "thank you ma-Lord, may I have another." [again paraphrased ]

[Mr. Ford95]

Yeah NASA is studying the Toyota deal to see if Cosmic Rays caused the problems and if so can THEY fix it. Sounds like the underlying statement is help push the whole Global Warming thing again. If he can tout NASA blaming the mechanical problems on those evil Cosmic Rays he can then link it to Global Warming with ease and since this Toyota deal is a worldwide issue he can get the whole world with it. As soon as I heard Cosmic Rays I shot Pepsi out my nose and then ROFLMAO. If that was the case then all vehicles would be having the same issue's not just 1 brand since they all run the same system just a different software program.

[golfhobo]

Okay, Mr.Ford:

1) So these companies have been taking YOUR tax dollars from our government in the form of SUBSIDIES to the company for reimbursing their retirees for expenses under Medicaire Part D.... and then taking a TAX DEDUCTION for this "so-called" COMPANY expense! Starting in 2013, they either won't GET those subsidies anymore OR won't be allowed to take a tax deduction for spending YOUR money. I'm not sure which, it may be both.

One thing is for sure..... the change won't affect their bottom line UNTIL 2013, so WHY are they taking the "one time" charge against profits NOW? Unless, of course, they are trying to embarrass the administration or help the Republicans this fall.

2) You DO realize, don't you, that the American Spectator article you are referencing is written by a BLOGGER, who is quoting an UNNAMED "lobbyist" for one of these companies, and some "leftover" staff from the Bush administration (supposedly) RIGHT??? May I remind you that MATCAT is writing a BLOG?

3) Now, jumping forward to the reference to Nasa looking into EMI (cosmic rays as you call them) causing problems with Toyotas. Do you have any idea what EMI (electromagnetic interference) IS? I know a little about it.

It can come from Solar flares, but also is often a result of high power transmission lines. This is why they are usually NOT ALLOWED within a certain proximity to airports. When EMI results from solar flares (COSMIC RAYS to some of you,) it can affect communication satellites, (including your T.V. Sat dish if you have one,) RADIO stations, radar systems and even COMPUTERS.... as well as aircraft at high elevations. [Aircraft at low elevations or on takeoff or landing are included in the next paragraph.]

Both THIS form of EMI... AND the ground based type from high transmission wires and other sources.... have caused MANY airplane crashes, some large... but mostly smaller types who's AUTO PILOT systems are not properly SHIELDED against EMI.

Whether or not all vehicles use the SAME (or just similar) "fly by wire" ECM's for acceleration and other vehicle systems, I don't know.... and am not prepared to believe, without proof, the statements here that they do. But, regardless.... those systems need to be properly "shielded" within the engine compartment of the vehicle to completely insulate them from EMI.

Can YOU say for sure that Toyota didn't somehow "cut costs" somewhere in the "shielding" of these ECMs to save costs?

I would suspect that NASA has been asked to look into it for several reasons: One that they have records of every solar flare in modern history which could be cross-referenced to the "incidents" of known phantom acceleration. And, two... because they know more about solar flares and EMI in general than just about any agency on earth.

When I have more time, I will look into BOTH of these "concerns" of yours. But, I call B.S. in general on the background story you dug up on the "charge-off" story. And the one about Nasa is just another lame attempt to discredit the actions of our president.

Can't WAIT to see what you'll come up with next! :roll::hellno:

[Roadhog]

I think it's too early to know who or what to really believe in this issue. I think the CBO could have dropped the ball, or had their hands tied because of such phony numbers to begin with. It's hard to keep all those lies in order...ya know. It's just so much easier to deal with simple facts and truth. But this is exactly the art of Lawyers...to complicate, confuse, and misdirect. People get so sick of the confusion and arguments, and that is exactly what they want.

Who the hell makes a 2700 page Bill anyway, if they didn't want total confusion and hidden this and that. We all know this had nothing to do with improving health care or lowering costs, so how can any "rational" person approve of any of this period? WTF?

The provision takes effect in 2013, but accounting rules require companies to take immediate charges equal to the current value of any known hit to future profits. Why are you seeing companies complaining now? If they are going to have any pressure on Congress to ammend the law back in their favor, now is their only chance. Besides, in todays economic environment, you can not expect any of these companies to take any more hit, and hope for any growth.

These corporations are saying at least 2 milllion of their retiree's because of this new law, will get dumped into medicare. Well there goes some of the profits the CBO counted, but isn't this in line with Obama's assertion that they hope this all will eventually lead to Universal Health Care?

Is this administration "really" upset, or are they just acting like they are, because after all, now they can put the blame on someone else. Doesn't anyone else see, that is how sleezy politicians are?

I don't have any trust or confidence in Washington or big corporations. I see so much corruption, lies, and strategies...it all makes me disgusted.

[repete]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Okay, Mr.Ford:

1) So these companies have been taking YOUR tax dollars from our government in the form of SUBSIDIES to the company for reimbursing their retirees for expenses under Medicaire Part D.... and then taking a TAX DEDUCTION for this "so-called" COMPANY expense! Starting in 2013, they either won't GET those subsidies anymore OR won't be allowed to take a tax deduction for spending YOUR money. I'm not sure which, it may be both.

One thing is for sure..... the change won't affect their bottom line UNTIL 2013, so WHY are they taking the "one time" charge against profits NOW? Unless, of course, they are trying to embarrass the administration or help the Republicans this fall.

2) You DO realize, don't you, that the American Spectator article you are referencing is written by a BLOGGER, who is quoting an UNNAMED "lobbyist" for one of these companies, and some "leftover" staff from the Bush administration (supposedly) RIGHT??? May I remind you that MATCAT is writing a BLOG?

3) Now, jumping forward to the reference to Nasa looking into EMI (cosmic rays as you call them) causing problems with Toyota's. Do you have any idea what EMI (electromagnetic interference) IS? I know a little about it.

It can come from Solar flares, but also is often a result of high power transmission lines. This is why they are usually NOT ALLOWED within a certain proximity to airports. When EMI results from solar flares (COSMIC RAYS to some of you,) it can affect communication satellites, (including your T.V. Sat dish if you have one,) RADIO stations, radar systems and even COMPUTERS.... as well as aircraft at high elevations. [Aircraft at low elevations or on takeoff or landing are included in the next paragraph.]

Both THIS form of EMI... AND the ground based type from high transmission wires and other sources.... have caused MANY airplane crashes, some large... but mostly smaller types who's AUTO PILOT systems are not properly SHIELDED against EMI.

Whether or not all vehicles use the SAME (or just similar) "fly by wire" ECM's for acceleration and other vehicle systems, I don't know.... and am not prepared to believe, without proof, the statements here that they do. But, regardless.... those systems need to be properly "shielded" within the engine compartment of the vehicle to completely insulate them from EMI.

Can YOU say for sure that Toyota didn't somehow "cut costs" somewhere in the "shielding" of these ECMs to save costs?

I would suspect that NASA has been asked to look into it for several reasons: One that they have records of every solar flare in modern history which could be cross-referenced to the "incidents" of known phantom acceleration. And, two... because they know more about solar flares and EMI in general than just about any agency on earth.

When I have more time, I will look into BOTH of these "concerns" of yours. But, I call B.S. in general on the background story you dug up on the "charge-off" story. And the one about Nasa is just another lame attempt to discredit the actions of our president.

Can't WAIT to see what you'll come up with next! :roll::hellno:

Solar flares and the EMI from them has been at an all time (or recent time) low and has been on a downward trend for quite some time. I don't remember how long but it just so happens to coincide with the global COOLING we've been seeing lately.
As far as having NASA "look in to it" I have NO faith in them, remember they(NASA) cooked up some data in support of global warming to keep the $$$ coming in, How many mill I mean billions will this cost?

As an interesting side note Toyota sales are up almost 40% I guess the public has spoken!!

[Roadhog]

:block:
Solar flares, (Cosmic Rays) EMI from high power transmission lines, only thing missing I can see is Martian Death Rays.
How many of these wayward Toyota's actually came anywhere near a high power transmission line, at the time of the accident? (2.9%) ?

Yes, yes Mr. President, we must appoint a blue ribbon panel of NASA experts to "look into" this at an enormous cost to taxpayers.
See, this is the only way they can funnel taxpayer money into NASA right now, in order to keep the lights on. (IMHO lol)
Remember...the USA is bankrupt beyond any cosmic rationality. These Chicago thugs have been spending trillions in borrowed money, ever since they took orfice.
NASA can't even afford to pump out their septic tanks right now. lol...lol

The actual cost at NASA for this "study" is going to be Murry (engineer 3rd class) weekly paycheck. He'll write the results anyway the Emperor wishes.

I happen to always wear my tin foil hat...so I am not falling victim to misinformation and propaganda, or Cosmic Rays.
Plus, I've never been probed by a Martian, so if you want a true perspective on what is going on, buy Hog's True Perspective of Whaz Goin' On ( 5 cents, still cheap ) :block:

[ironeagle_2006]

One of my towns Biggest Employeers with over 450 with a MASSIVE retiree population in fact withover 2000 in the town alone at one point my town alone produced more GLASS Containers on a tonnage basis than the rest of the WORLD 1978 we did it. Well they are thinking of closing the plant here and costing KILLING this town with job losses. 450 directly and lets see here we would lose more than likely 2 machine shops that support them 2 trucking Terminals would close up costing Jobs Millis has a Terminal here and another company hauls for another customer of theirs. Then how many small Mom and Pop stores would close. More than likely we would loose 1000-1500 jobs in this town. All thanks to Obamacare. Let alone the Schools I do not want to be our DEMONCRAT that voted for this come November.