They are certainly the exception, and not the rule. I wish it were the other way around. There is nothing wrong with community service; be it required, encouraged, compensated, etc. Ultimately, the community wins, and the individual performing it learns something about giving to others.

I would even go so far as to say that is a very conservative way of thinking. I applaud Obama for this initiative, because it is teaching people to rely on each other when they need help, rather than the government.

 

All my community services were court ordered.

 

:lol2:


I wish community service was just part of our makeup and done automatically, but.... that is a "head in the clouds" notion.... :tears:

 

I do not wear US flag pins, because I see no reason to validate my patriotism for others. Do you have a "problum" with me too?

You'll have to provide a reference to where this happened....




Again - is this some hidden proposal that only you have uncovered? Link to a legitimate news story citing this.

 

don't get me wrong i think community service is a good thing i did it when i was a kid and alot more than 50hrs but maybe thats because of good upbringing.......

but would i have done it if it was REQUIRED....? hell no not more than 50

FORCING people to perform free labor does NOTHING to build character or community, but it does build resentment.

look at it this way if the old lady living next door needed help cutting the grass would you help....? and how would you feel afterwords....?
now if the the same old lady needed help and the COPS came over and MADE you do it how would you feel afterwards..?

you CAN NOT mandate community involvement in a free society

we are still free right..?

all it does is make 13-24 year olds in to a FREE work force. do you realy think that all this free labor is going to be used to clean old peoples drivways of snow cut grass or rake leaves....?

 

Since both Obama's campaign website, and the slanted news article you posted clearly state that the community service would be encouraged, rather than required, I just don't see what exactly you are whining about. Unless of course, your only goal is to divide, which is pretty clear at this point.

I see you ignored all your other points that I shot down. Care to address them? Or are you still looking for news articles that claim Obama wants to change the national anthem and hates the Pledge of Allegiance?

 

At a time when the U.S. military is stretched beyond its means in wars of choice OR necessity throughout the world, and even the National Guards of the various states have been deployed to join them, leaving our citizens without much of the protection they are entitled to and have reason to expect;

and absense a "draft" which this President has refused to require (in an effort to protect his "legacy") although one is surely needed at this time, and WOULD have been enacted in times past... even by Democrat Presidents...;

and in view of the staunch, if not radical, claims of 2nd Ammendment rights by certain citizens of this country, and their CLAIMS of patriotism;

I find it perversely ironic that one would question the wisdom of our forefathers, CRY about the inconvenience, or ascribe sinister motivation to the President Elect who is faced with nearly unsurmountable problems of national security and economic despair when he contemplates the very BASIS for the right to bear arms in this country as described below:

For how many years now have I heard the claims of the "rights" of citizens to be armed for their self-defense.... but, when reason and "requirement" to do so is presented? Nothing but contempt and backpeddling!

You (the collective) say that "freedom is not free," but when asked to pay the price you call it a "TAX?" or an infringement? The Israelis have ALWAYS had such a policy, and it has served them well.... saving the lives of many Americans who would have died in their stead, protecting their right to exist.

It is apparent (to me, at least) that there are a few glitches on his media team, and/or those who produce his website. But, I'm quite sure that the intent was along the lines of providing government money for college tuition, as has been his stance all along. What is wrong with "requiring" some community service in exchange for tax dollars to support an education?

Most of the programs mentioned were started long before his election. He is only trying to "justify" government expenditures for improving education by giving something back to the communities who will pay for it. And, as a byproduct, he may just give some motivation and purpose to a generation of couch potatoes that YOU (collective) have spawned!

And, lest there be any misunderstanding of my position... I am FOR compulsory military service of 2 years by every able bodied male or female BEFORE going to college. I am FOR government assistance to pay for that education based on that service. I am FOR compulsory "community service" for anyone exempted from the above requirement due to health or conscientious objection. And I am FOR "tax supported" reward programs for those who have so "served" their country.

I am excited to see a President who DARES to actually ASK (or require) some measure of sacrifice or committment from EVERY citizen of this country (not just the poor or middle class,) and I am appalled (though not surprised) at the objections and villifications lobbed at him for having such "audacity."

I will go one step further and take the risk of saying, as Michelle Obama did, that for perhaps the FIRST time in my adult life, I am proud of the NEW direction my country is taking!

To be fair, I DO understand the apprehension that many of "you" show concerning Obama's presidency. I had my own negative expectations of Dubya LONG before he became president in 2000. Unfortunately, I was proved to be RIGHT.

I'm "psychic" that way! :lol:

I can only hope that I am right once again, and that many of you are once again wrong. Only time will tell. But, do us BOTH a favor and WAIT until things get sorted out before you accuse him of things, okay? You guys are jumping at misconceptions, mostly posted by opinionated BLOGGERS, as if they are facts! Do some friggin RESEARCH first, will ya?

Hatred based on FACTS is one thing. But, this constant hatred and fear based on misinformed opinions of BLOGGERS is more than a rational person can contend! Back in the early 80's, when computers became the "weapon of choice" for the average citizen, and Al Gore "invented" the Internet, I said.... quite prophetically... that they might well be the downfall of our country and civilization. Many of you seem COMPELLED to prove me right!

Whether you like it or not, America has finally entered a new millenium... a new era. As nations go, we are still babes. I think we all agree that we don't want to see our nation brought down by economic or military disasters. We don't want to see moral decay bring us to the fate of Sodom and Gomarrah. We don't want to see IMPERIALISM earn us the hatred and disdain of the rest of the world. And we are still nearly divided on what course would best reach those goals.

I echo the Rev's concerns about the division in this country. I disagree, of course, on some of the causes, but I am sentient of the reasons for his concern. He is much younger than I. Like me, he would like to see some coherence to our plans for a bright future (and he has a larger stake in it.)

A nation divided CANNOT stand! History has proven that. Perhaps, our worst enemy is cynicism. I must admit to some guilt in that regard. But, I am not without HOPE! So many people said that there was NO real choice or acceptable alternative in the two candidates in this election. I disagree. I could have lived with a McCain presidency (absent that poor choice for a V.P.) and I am sure that I will come to disagree with SOME of Obama's ideals. But, either is better, IMHO, than what we have suffered through for the past 8 CRITICAL years of our existence.

There is still time for us to turn things around. The "cowboy" who shot first, and asked questions later, will soon be gone. It is still possible to find UBL and bring him to justice, but if it never happens, we can still WIN if we marginalize him into the annals of history. More importantly, we can WIN if we do not falter in our mission to spread Democratic ideals NOT by force, but by example.

For those of you who believe strongly in God.... I have always been taught that the "end time" is not yet defined, and will depend largely on the state of the World and human existence. i.e: God will "tarry" IF, and only if, we as a human race show promise of enlightened evolution. So... to save our own earthbound lives, and those of our children, we must learn the key to co-existence. He could have chosen to end the world during either of the two "great wars" but he didn't. You must ask yourselves WHY?

Is there something we haven't done yet? Is there a level of human interaction we have yet to achieve? Until we achieve peace with our neighbors, do we even deserve to BE in his presence? As long as we "serve" the prince of darkness, and HATE each other, we are not worthy of Heaven, and we create our own Hell on Earth. This pleases Satan, does it not? What if we deprived Satan of his glory? Would that not piss him off royally? I believe THAT might be the time that he raises his ugly head in the final war with God, trying to "reclaim" mankind.

It is said that Satan rules the World, and God rules Heaven. As long as we do the bidding of the devil on Earth, we may survive in turmoil and what some would call "purgatory." It is only when we learn to love each other, and co-exist in peace and prosperity for all the world, that we will have angered Satan, and pleased God, to the point that we can end this celestial chess game and go home.

Okay, I apologize for making this post "religious" in nature. I intended it to be "political." But, sometimes I wonder if there is a difference.

Much has been said lately about Socialism and Karl Marx's communist manifesto in which he says, " from those according to their ability, to those according to their need." This has been bothering me for some time now. I kept thinking it was ACTUALLY biblical in nature, yet I cannot find the reference I expected to find. But, I am quite sure my religious indoctrination has not failed me.

The example of the parable of "talents" comes to mind. I believe the scripture says in reference that, "to him that much is given, much is expected." And.... likewise.... to him that little was given he was chastised for not trying to do MORE with it. This is an indictment of BOTH the poor AND the rich! And more than you know, this is an indictment of MY life! If there IS a god, I have failed him on both accounts.

But, perhaps, the difference is that I KNOW it! I can't help but think of the recent Wall Street meltdown as a manifestation of Jesus chasing the "money changers" out of the temple. And the current languishing about taxes reminds me of " render unto Caesar (sp) that which is his... and unto God, that which belongs to HIM. And then, of course, there is that thing about a rich man squeezing through the eye of a needle to get into Heaven.

I've said it before, only PARTLY in jest, that Jesus was a "Liberal." There is absolutely NOTHING in my memory of years of religious indoctrination that supports the contention of some that the poor are responsible for their lot in life, and therefore should be condemned and shunned for it. I realize that times have changed since then, and there are those who "play it" for all it's worth. But, I believe GOD should be their judge.... not you!

I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't know that I believe in God OR that He has all the answers. But, at the very least, I believe the Bible is an historical document that addresses MOST of the problems we face even today. And within it lies many, if not all, of the answers.

I don't know WHY or HOW it works, but I have found that if I blow the dust off of it, and take a "random" stab at it and open it to a page that my thumb falls upon, I ALWAYS find something relevant to whatever concern is on my heart or mind. I don't try to pick a spot that is in the NT, nor do I consciously look to the OT. I just "open" it and find pearls of wisdom and guidance. (works much better than the FMCSR's!)

I encourage you all to try it. But, before you do, be clear in your mind just WHAT it is that is troubling you.

Okay, with that I am done here for now. I apologize for the length of this post. For those who think I am just ranting, or being a blowhard, I believe I was inspired by YOUR God to post this. So, what will you say now?

Hobo

 

He isn't my god, and I think you were, in fact, ranting and being a blowhard.:clap::moon:

 

I take back everything nice I said, or TRIED to say, about you Rev! :moon::lol2:

 

I don't see it lasting