[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by finger_lakes

85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425 not $425,000

But I still like the idea.

And, now, do your calculation with Population: 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.). Oh, that's right... You said everybody over 18.

Maybe that's not such a bad idea... Of the ones near 18, how many do you suppose will OD when they get their hands on that much money? Reduce drug traffic, control the population, and cure the economy. BRILLIANT.

You do realize, of course, that you're all pulling at the "leaves", not the root?

[Creek Jackson]

Originally Posted by Useless

Guess I'm somewhat the odd man out again, but I believe that this was bad legislation.

Folks, we are talking about $750 BILLION here; if there is anything worse than doing nothing, it would be placing a monsterous debt load place upon the nation, with bad legislation as the product we would be buying.

These problems have been festering for years, and the blood flows on both sides of the political aisles. The blame also flow from Wall st. and Main St. This problem did not creep up in a week's time, and it can't be solved in a few days, by poorly contrived quick fixes. This is a situation where there are no "good" answers; there will only be unfortunate outcomes.

Now, our makets lost around $1.2 TRILLION of wealth today. Believe it or not, that is not a death blow to us. If anything, it may well fuel fires of anger from the American people, and help force us to get off our complacent, apathetic butts, and DEMAND legislation that will not be shoved down our throats, with $750 Billion of debt load, and be more attentive in demanding that the special interests groups be told, en mass, to take a hike. Let the situation fester even more which it will do very quickly, and it may also send people in droves to the polls in November.

Hopefully, this will also sufficiently enrage people to demand that the vaccuum cleaner economics, where the wealth of the nation has been sucked out of the pockets of the Americamn Middle class, the underclass, and the poor, and transferred to the corporate fat cats, who have treated their companies revenue, and the stock holder's and bond holder's investments, and using them as their own piggy banks, latent with salaries and compensation packages, and golden parachutes, whic have rewarded abyssmally poor performance.

The worst is yet to come, but as the problems worsen, hopefully the American people will not only demand resolutions, but also get involved in scrutinizing those proposed solutions. Hopefully, that may save us from paying $750 Billion for a legislative pig in a poke, which could actually make things worse in the long run, instead of better. This crisis may also force tha American people to break their addictions to debt; irresponsible debt loads are a big part of what got us into this mess in the first place.

Being a hippie at heart who believes in free enterprise and defying the rules of conventional wisdom, I'm accustomed to being a sore thimb to many of those who are in the upper income brackets. I enjoy it. I fervently believe that we need a social revolution that we have not seen since the 1960's. Simply demanding that Washington "do something", even if it means doing something wrong, is not the solution; social activism from people of ALL political persuassions, is.

I do see opportunities arising here; in the long run, this crisis may fuel the revolution that will be required to rebuild the American Middle Class, which has been the backbone of this country since WWII. The transfer of wealth from the many to the few has gone on too long, and has to be stopped. Without that, no legislative action at any price will provide any real solutions. It's time for the American people to take a stand, to begin educating themselves about the alternatives we will need to create, to start listening, talking, and stop worrying about WHO is right, but rather focus upon doing WHAT is right. It is my hope that this will also force us, as a nation, to wake up, and start thinking about who will be helped, and who will be harmed by our decisions.

You got my vote Useless!!!

[ct77]

Called both my Senators and Congressman Friday and told them I have had it, THE BUCK STOPS NOW. But after watching how they tried to sneak it through over the weekend and seeing how Pelosi was so upset that the vote would be held Monday when everybody was watching. I have had it with both those parties, there is really only one choice left.

Vote them all out before they bankrupt us. Have always liked the fairtax plan and it is time we all vote Libertarian, at least give them a chance and see if they hold up to their party line and not get corrupted like the Republocrats and Demopulicans.

[GMAN]

I have been listening to the news today. Apparently, these crocked politicians are still trying to put a deal together. I think it is time to cut our losses. Things could be difficult for a while, but it will not be a death blow for the country. Frankly, I am not sure it will affect as much of the country as they are trying to convince us. We work half of our work day to pay taxes. That is a fact. Now that isn't just income taxes, but all the other taxes they throw at us. Think about it. If you work a 10 hour day, 5 of those hours is so that you can pay all of your taxes. Half of your work day. Just think about what you could do with all that money if you were not giving it to the government. If they want more money they just throw another tax at us. If they pass this tax just imagine what you will be paying. And make no mistake about it, this bail out package is something we will have to pay for in the form of higher taxes. They need to call it for what it is, another tax. They cannot pay for this without raising our taxes. We all use too much credit. The government uses more than any of us. It is time we learned to live within our means. Believe it or not, most of us grew up without credit cards and we used to pay cash for what we wanted. We got along just fine. If we didn't have the cash we could not afford it. It is a matter of adjusting our attitudes. We didn't become a nation of debtors over night. We won't resolve this problem over night either. Politicians have been buying these elections for many years. They are now out of money. We need to vote out every one of those who voted for this giveaway program. And keep calling your congressional representatives. These politicians are running scared. They are terrified of losing their congressional seat. With all the calls they are reporting people may have finally awakened. Speaking of taxes. The IRS seems to be working over time. From what I am hearing one of the areas they are targeting is trucking. They are doing a lot of audits of truck drivers and owner operators. They are so desperate for money they have allocated tons of money to go after smaller companies and people such as truck drivers. It tells me that their little house of cards is about to come tumbling down. Without the IRS they won't have carte blanche to do as they wish. The more desperate they become the more aggressive. And right now they are very aggressive.

[GTR SILVER]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I have been listening to the news today. Apparently, these crocked politicians are still trying to put a deal together. I think it is time to cut our losses. Things could be difficult for a while, but it will not be a death blow for the country. Frankly, I am not sure it will affect as much of the country as they are trying to convince us. We work half of our work day to pay taxes. That is a fact. Now that isn't just income taxes, but all the other taxes they throw at us. Think about it. If you work a 10 hour day, 5 of those hours is so that you can pay all of your taxes. Half of your work day. Just think about what you could do with all that money if you were not giving it to the government. If they want more money they just throw another tax at us. If they pass this tax just imagine what you will be paying. And make no mistake about it, this bail out package is something we will have to pay for in the form of higher taxes. They need to call it for what it is, another tax. They cannot pay for this without raising our taxes. We all use too much credit. The government uses more than any of us. It is time we learned to live within our means. Believe it or not, most of us grew up without credit cards and we used to pay cash for what we wanted. We got along just fine. If we didn't have the cash we could not afford it. It is a matter of adjusting our attitudes. We didn't become a nation of debtors over night. We won't resolve this problem over night either. Politicians have been buying these elections for many years. They are now out of money. We need to vote out every one of those who voted for this giveaway program. And keep calling your congressional representatives. These politicians are running scared. They are terrified of losing their congressional seat. With all the calls they are reporting people may have finally awakened. Speaking of taxes. The IRS seems to be working over time. From what I am hearing one of the areas they are targeting is trucking. They are doing a lot of audits of truck drivers and owner operators. They are so desperate for money they have allocated tons of money to go after smaller companies and people such as truck drivers. It tells me that their little house of cards is about to come tumbling down. Without the IRS they won't have carte blanche to do as they wish. The more desperate they become the more aggressive. And right now they are very aggressive.

well put........... 8) 8)

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by ct77

Called both my Senators and Congressman Friday and told them I have had it, THE BUCK STOPS NOW. But after watching how they tried to sneak it through over the weekend and seeing how Pelosi was so upset that the vote would be held Monday when everybody was watching. I have had it with both those parties, there is really only one choice left.

Vote them all out before they bankrupt us. Have always liked the fairtax plan and it is time we all vote Libertarian, at least give them a chance and see if they hold up to their party line and not get corrupted like the Republocrats and Demopulicans.

Libertarian won't make it any better. Ron Paul won't make it any better. And, YES, they will try to put something together again. It's not over yet by a long shot. There will be a bailout. But, they may try to make it look like something else entirely. Expect to have to wool pulled over your eyes.

And, the UK is having their own banks failing too. Two or three of their major banks have already gone down. And, while I didn't read exactly why, I'll bet it's for close to the same reasons.

At one time, if you took out a loan, that was the bank you were dealing with for the life of the loan. Today, they trade loans and mortgages like they do stocks. Thirty years ago, I took out a loan with one bank, and about a year later, I was making my payments to another bank. Before it was over, I was making payments to two more banks. And, I was NEVER late on any of my payments.

But, These financial institutions KNEW they were in trouble two years ago, or more. Right here on the board, quite a while back, someone posted that they were watching the financial boards and were reading that "WE'RE IN DEEP DOO-DOO. But, everybody waited until it was an EMERGENCY. That way, they might be able to push something through.

Merril Lynch isn't Merril Lynch anymore, Wachovia isn't Wachovia anymore, and I don't remember who else has been bought out. But, you ever notice...

The guys in the top offices, pulling down the big salaries and making the decisions that brought them to this point have not put one red cent back...
Obviously, they were NOT worth the money they have been getting for being in those offices.

[gordoUSA]

One thing for certain, this "bailout" will not stop @ $700 Billion. This number is nothing more than a downpayment. The number was "pulled out of thin air," a number the Washington politicians thought we would go along with. Just a small downpayment to get us over the hump and set a precedent of bailing out those responsible for bankrupting a company.
The actual number of $$ will be in the TRILLIONS before it is all said and done. It will take years and years to work our way out of this mess created by greedy and incompetent CEO's. It is the middle class that will suffer the most and pay the most in the end.
Personally I would not agree to any plan, unless there is a "iron clad" agreement to call in the FBI, the Justice Dept. and the SEC and agressively prosecute those responsible.
Again, on November 4th we all have choice. Vote the same incompetent and corrupt politicians back into office, or simply check the other box, regardless of the other candidates party, color, or gender.

[Manicmechnic]

Consider first that there are not that many places on earth where a person can make and hold billions and billions of dollars in personal wealth. Seriously, what is that potential and opportunity worth? Quite honestly, if the government said to me “We’re taking half of everything you earn for the privilege of living here, where you CAN make billions of dollars”, I still would not consider living anywhere else- of course it would be nice if after taking 50% percent they didn’t also pile on state sales tax, state income, property and excise taxes, but that’s a different discussion.

So back to my original premise. The country teeters on the brink of financial demise. We need $700 billion (they say- we know that means $3-$4 trillion) to prop up the failing system before all hell breaks loose. The latest proposal has the taxpayers bearing this expense- how many of us in America actually pay taxes, and at what rate is yet another discussion, but for the sake of argument, I think we can reasonably expect that average wage earners, “middle class” families and individuals, whoever you are now, will end up shouldering this cost. After all, if there was a way to make that 1% (probably more like .001%) of shall we say “elite” earners pony up, we might not be in this situation. Greed has perpetrated the highest levels of our market economy AND our government- don’t forget, Hank Paulson took 1/2 billion dollars out of Goldman-Sachs and jumped ship before their debacle, now he’s supposed to find the fix? WOW!!!! What crap!!!!

So don’t expect these greedy geniuses to take one for the 100-200 million Americans that will ultimately pay the bill.

So how about this? Consider that the government on many levels, through various instruments, i.e. public domain, seizes personal assets for the greater good. You could lose your beautiful home or property to a highway project or a military reservation, and the majority voice will claim greater good and tell you quit whining.

So let’s employ the same tactic here. EVERYONE in America, citizen or not, who holds more than one billion dollars in personal wealth shall immediately surrender everything in excess of one billion dollars to the federal government for the express purpose of the bailout. Bill Gates, sorry, give us that “extra” $56 billion you’re sitting on: Boone Pickens, Warren Buffet- I don’t know who exactly is on the list, but there are a lot of names now- cough up the dough. And Warren Buffet probably knows where Bill Gates hides his money, and vice-verse. Let’s face it- if it weren’t for a stacked deck, most of these people wouldn’t HAVE this kind of excess, so let THEM bear the brunt. I know it sounds socialist (so is a taxpayer brokered bailout) or simplistic, but look at the upside. First off, instead of 200 million taxpayers bitching about the fact that they had to salvage the financial institutions, mostly to the benefit of the already super-rich, maybe 200-300 billionaires will do the whining. And with their billions on the line, and owing to the fact that they will want a way to ultimately recoup their “expenses”, they will make damn sure whatever the government does with the money actually works- and with the specter of footing the bill personally, I’ll bet they figure out how to do it MUCH cheaper than the government, who spends money like they own the presses. Let’s face it; they probably helped create the crisis through personal and corporate irresponsibility, so they should have the most insight into a cure.

And what do you think the response nationally would be to their (remember 200-300 voices, not 200-300 MILLION) anguished outcries? Personally I think my response would be something like “Suck it up. Take your last BILLION DOLLARS, go back to your 160’ yacht or your castle in Scotland and go sulk-I CARE!!”

I want to make it clear- I’m only going after individuals- not corporations. The wrongdoing of corporations is usually quite easily tied to the wrongdoings of individuals, and these raiders and profiteers are the ones my plan targets.

So come on, Congress, let’s enact some emergency legislation that

a) Has an impact on the least possible number of people

b) impacts the people that most likely profited from or even caused the current debacle

c) incentives the perpetrators to help audit the use of the money to create an EFFECTIVE bailout plan

d) has the end result of not creating 200 million disgruntled, disenfranchised and disconnected Americans, but rather leaves, maybe 200-300 INDIVIDUALS down to their last BILLION DOLLARS!!