Dave Ramsey
#101
08-11-2007, 04:57 AM
Unfortunately we live in a society where if you want to do things like rack up a bunch of debt and file bankruptcy or sleep with your Whitehouse intern, all is forgiven because you're just like your neighbors down the street. It seems that no one has any shame.
Otherwise, "some" people would NEVER get to be King! Just sayin' :wink:
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#102
08-11-2007, 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by redsfan
I've seen several misconceptions in this thread about the teachings of Dave Ramsey.
The article that Dave is bad at math seems to make sense and would in a lot of cases, but his idea of ignoring the interest rate and paying off the smallest debt first is just a means to motivate people by getting the ball rolling. A very large part of our society needs this sort of kick in the butt and proof of progress to motivate them. Useless: I agree with "Redsfan" 100% on this matter. If solving the problems of imprudent handling of finances and over indebtedness were simply matters of basic arithmetic, then the "Ramsey Bad At Math" theory would be sound, and these problems could be resolved by simply reconfiguring the arithmatic strategies. Unfortunately, it isn't all so simple, because the human psyche, as well as conditioning of comfort zones enters into play. Now, to complicate matters even further, we are often dealing with the patterns of not just one person, but also spouses, ex-spouses, children, step children, or people outside the immediate family circle as well. Given those parameters, I believe that Dave Ramsey's advice is completely sound. Add to the mix is the fact that I have taught people Dave's principals, and I have seen them work on a first hand basis too mant times to call them wrong. RedsFan: Dave advocates term life insurance over whole life and my personal belief is that advice is right on now matter where you are in life. Whole life is much more expensive than term and honestly, the return you will get from it is pretty lame. You will always get a better return from long-term investing than you will from a whole life policy. Useless: Here, Redsfan, is where we see things differently: My background and experience as a Nurse and healthcare provider has, to some extent, influenced my thinking. In a best case scenario, with the most favorable outcome, life insurance will be a waste of good money. Now, what do I mean by that?? What I mean is that you will pay a premium every month, and never derive any direct benefit from it in terms of a pay-out. Now, the idea of a term life policy is sound, as long as everything goes as it should, and the policy holder is not faced with health conditions which could effect, or even preclude future insurability. The problem is that as we make more trips around the sun, changes in our health do tend to take place. Go back twenty years ago, when we had a company called "A.L. Williams", (which later became known as "Primerica" selling term life policies on a term life basis. This was done in the form of a multi-level marketing program. Sales Reps for A.L. Williams would sell their program by encouraging people to cancel theit whole life policies, and replace them with lower cost term life policies, and then invest the difference in costs into a mutual fund. ....Not a bad idea in theory, but at times, the results spelled trouble. People canceled their whole lifee policies, signed on with Primerica, and then, (sometimes several months later!!) were told that their applications for term life insurance had been declined due to certain pre-existing conditions such as Diabetes, Hypertension, Heart Conditions, or at times, had no serious ailments, but fell into whe category of what in the insurance industry is known as a "high risk univers" where statistically, they were deemed to be at a higher risk level that the underwritters were willing to accept......VERY questionable ethics involved here, which caused their program considerable problems in the days that would follow. .......Now, those people were left with NO life insurance coverage at all!! So, I DO favor the idea of young people in good health investing in a whole life policy to insure their future insurability, and I reccommend that they SUPPLEMENT that policy with term coverage that can be adjusted upward or downward, as their situations in life deem neccessary. Redsfan: Some people can use credit cards and pay them off every month, but the reality is that the vast majority of people don't practice this. His solution is that you just cut them up and live on cash. What's wrong with that? As he's stated, you can always go back to your credit card debt filled life any time you want to. They really will give those cards to anyone. Useless: Here, sound arguements can be made from both sides: Having a satisfactory credit rating is an asset in terms of employability, receiving more favorable rates on car insurance, and in other areas as well. At the same time, the value of the FICO score is way overblown. A person does not need to shoot for the stars on a FICO score, nor so I ever reccommend that they do; In order to achieve those "stellar scores", you have to have a solid history of not only managing debt and credit, but also a history of extending your indebtedness to higher percentages and debt/income ratios. This is where, IMHO, the Fico Score becomes inversely propotionate to the IQ Score; The HIGHER the FICO score is, the LOWER a person's financial IQ can all too often become. While not meaning to boast, (okay, that's pushing the "Truth Envelope" a wee bit!! )  ops: I do have a lengthy history of offering Real Estate properties and homes to the sub-prime market on an owner-financed basis....also as a matter worthy of note, while the sub-prime R/E Financing market is entering a melt-down phase that is causing considerable volatility on Wall St., with the exception of one account, ALL of my sub-prime files are in outstanding condition!! So, my opinions and perspectives here are the result of hand's on experience.Redsfan: Does he profit from the people who listen to him? Of course he does! He also gives a lot of free advice and products day after day also. Name for me a motivational speaker, financial advisor, author or radio host who doesn't profit from what they teach? (I'm pretty confident that we can throw Tony Robbins into that category also.) You can get all of Dave's material (including his radio show) either free from your local library or at a very minimal cost if you shop around. I bought 3 of his books some time ago for around 10 bucks each from Christianbook.com. You can also catch his show on many FM or AM channels. He's in nearly every major market, you don't have to get XM or Sirius to listen to him. He paints with a broad brush because he has too, however, if you will listen to his program he will get cater to the specific circumstances of many of his callers. IMO, he gives solid, sound financially advice that would work for everyone if they chose to apply it. Unfortunately we live in a society where if you want to do things like rack up a bunch of debt and file bankruptcy or sleep with your Whitehouse intern, all is forgiven because you're just like your neighbors down the street. It seems that no one has any shame. The biggest lesson that Dave is trying to teach is personal responsibility. What's wrong with that? Obviously, it's not very popular anymore. IMO, he makes on helluva glass of Kool-Aid...
#103
08-11-2007, 07:32 AM
Huh?? What did I say?? :lol:
Useless, I think you confused my post with that guy who likes baseball!! I'm only reading this thread because I am totally irresponsible with money! I hope to learn something, or at least get motivated to make some changes! :lol:
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#104
08-11-2007, 08:21 AM
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Huh?? What did I say?? :lol:
Useless, I think you confused my post with that guy who likes baseball!! I'm only reading this thread because I am totally irresponsible with money! I hope to learn something, or at least get motivated to make some changes! :lol: ops: ops: ops: Not sure WHAT happened there, bit I did go back and edit!! :shock: I should have become suspicious when I found myself agreeing with you!! :P 
#105
08-11-2007, 08:36 AM
Dang!! I just had the shortest career as a financial genius known to man!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :lol:
Didn't even have time to place a bet on..... I mean invest in the Stock Market!! :evil: Oh well..... I prefer beer to Champagne anyway!! :wink:
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#106
08-12-2007, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by RedRaven
So, "Useless", what exactly is it that you do for a living?...
I noticed that you stated something about buying a Cadillac for a Step child... How is that teaching this individual financial responsibility?... There is a saying, that you never appreciate the "things" given for free, like you appreciate the "things" you've earned for yourself...
#107
08-12-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by RedRaven
I don't know who Dave Ramsey is, because I wouldn't waste my money to buy XM, or, Sirius radio. To me that IS a waste of money... When there is free FM, and or, AM radio to be listened too...
#108
08-12-2007, 06:27 PM
now RedRaven as to me getting my stepson a Cadillac not that i need to but 1st he works 6 nites a week, 2nd he is going to school full time, "computer science" and he is paying for it, he has always wanted a nice car so i made a deal with him if he worked 5 days a week and he could keep his grades at B+ (gpa 3.25) or better for a year as well as doing the things around the house. i would buy him a nice car. i never said it was NEW did i..? what i said was he's driving around in a very nice Cadillac STS and it was paid for when i gave it to him. and we pay nothing gas or otherwise he does and as to
How would you survive financially?... All of a sudden you no longer have the income to support your "lifestyle"... Do you have the millions saved to support you for the rest of your days?...
07.09.99 i hit a car with my yanaha on I-5 in seattle and couldn't work for 3 1/2 months could walk for 2 of that, i had to stay with firends as my house wasn't wheelchair frendly. he had no Insurance and i was under insured. no income for 3 1/2 months yet i paid all my bills for my house and helped my firends with rent & food and i didn't go into debt to do it.! how you ask well i had this little thing called MONEY in the bank.
I'm quite curious about this... I've learned through my own life experiences, that even if you save money, and pay for everything you want, that you can end up in a bad situation should you find yourself suddenly injured, can no longer work in your chosen profession, and the bills continue to come in the mail every month...
btw when i was 14 i took a summer job and saved my money and at the end of summer i paid CASH for my first car a 65 mustang convertible "couldn't driver it for 3 months" but it was mine and i have never made a car payment in my life and i have never had a credit card the only thing i have ever made payments on is when i buy a house and then for no more than 5 years. if you will reread me post you will see what my wife was going to get for her birthday will she got her RAM yesterday. it is just what she wanted body color and all. and NO it's not new (she didn't want NEW and i would never buy a NEW car or truck) it's great when you plan ahead and save for the things you want. you think you are good at talking down a car dealer try taking a car out for a test drive (swing by the bank)and when you get back say i will pay THIS for it and lay the CASH out "i've never had to pick the cash back up and leave without what i want" you spend less money what you have money. it's all about planning. if you plan ahead you can have all the things you want and when life sends something your way if you have planed ahead it's just a bump in the road.
#109
08-13-2007, 01:45 AM
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bella Vista, Arkansas, United States
Posts: 1,408
What bothers me is that, as I stated before, if finances were taught in our public schools, like they promote the "No child left behind" programs. Maybe people wouldn't find themselves with the short straw in their hand, in life.
I also think that children learn a lot from their parents, and how their parents manage money. I feel has an influence on how their kids learn to manage money as well...
I think a lot of people believe that when they get old that Social Security is going to take care of them... WOW!... Would you be wrong if your thinking along those lines.
If you want to be one of those horror stories you've heard of like the elderly who eat cat food, because they can't afford proper groceries each month. Then you had better change your thinking about Social Security...
We simply don't take notice of the cracks, the rust, erosion going on in our society, and sometimes we simply want to put a new coat of paint over things, instead of dealing with the underlying crisis that needs to be dealt with now, not in the future.
#110
08-13-2007, 04:40 AM
"He who dances with sheep" said:
I saw an article not too long ago which showed a 25 year old today needs to be saving and investing at least 500 bucks a month for retirement otherwise they are going to be screwed at retirement. You can tell young people this all you want but it still wont change many of them.
MOST average people DO have mortgages and maybe even a car payment. (Doesn't have to be NEW, but still maybe a couple hundred a month. Most 25 year olds, if married, also probably have a young and growing family with ALL the expenses that entails. MOST financial gurus say that we should "pay ourselves" 10% of our income (before or after taxes?) each month and save or invest it. Do you think it is realistic, or usually possible, that a 25 yr old with a young family, is making $5,000 a month? ($60,000 a year?) I know it's not your fault if they aren't. And from what you say, you could barely care. But, I was just curious if you thought this was an "easily achievable task?" Curiously wondering, WHAT (if any) role you think the government, or society in general, should play in ENSURING that wages ARE that high, or that cost of living is LOW enough to allow such savings per month? Or are we all just "on our own" at the mercy of "market influences?" Those who COME from money "make it." Those who start out poor, have no chance? One of my favorite dialogues from the movies is in Abence of Malice, where Paul Newman asks: "who do I see about that?" to which Wilford Brimley replies: "Ain't no one to SEE about that!" So don't think I'm "whining" when I point out that, just like Trucking is geared toward the SOLO driver..... Life economics are geared toward the TWO INCOME family. A single person, if he wants a house and car, bears the full burden of the cost on his OWN single salary. Not sure I believe it, but some say that "Two can live as cheaply as one." If this is true.... they sure have a heck of an INCOME advantage over the single man/woman! Where are the BUSH tax credits for US??? I really DO value your opinions on such matters, so.... please give some thought to this and give me your BEST answer... not just a "convenient" one. Before you repeat yourself about SAVING up to pay cash for a car, etc. Let me point out that MOST 25 year olds may have just worked their way through college, and may still have student loans to pay off as well. How many years have they had to SAVE up for a decent car? At the amount mentioned, if it were possible, it would take ALL his savings up to that point just to afford a $20,000 car if he paid cash for it. Thanks! Hobo
__________________
Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev. |
