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Old 04-12-2013, 11:14 AM
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Default Per diem deduction

Hay brothers, I'm going to say you a good site for take better idea from this site per diem rates meals If you have any problem you can inbox me or use this site and solve your matters.

Last edited by DulipIPK; 04-12-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:18 AM
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This post is totally irrelevant to truckers, and the website should not be consulted by ANYONE frequenting this site.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfhobo View Post
This post is totally irrelevant to truckers, and the website should not be consulted by ANYONE frequenting this site.
Yep. Took a look at it and it is a hodge podge of various nonsense for those that have nothing to do with trucking. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies. $59 a day per diem for full days out, 75% of that for partial days out. Add up all of those days, come to a total, and you get to claim 80% of the total on your tax return for per diem.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:55 AM
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Sorry, Copperhead... but, you are mistaken. There is NO need for OTR truckers to consider 3/4 days! You misread the IRS info... and all of my posts about it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:36 AM
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So, you are saying take full day per diem for a day when you leave the house or return instead of a partial? Please show IRS copy on this. You could be right, just please prove it. My son is an IRS field agent and would agree with my conclusion. I did get it from 5 different CPA's and him. His name is Justin Downing and he is out of the Wichita, KS office of the IRS if you doubt me.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:15 AM
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Copperhead: I will look for my saved files on the IRS pubs sometime today (soon ) but, start with this thread I started for the basic contention I am making:

http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/a...e-mistake.html

In the pub I am basing this on, there is a special section for "Transportation Employees." Ask your son if he is referencing THAT specific section. Or... for HIS interpretation of it. He should know which PUB I'm talking about, but I'll see if I can find it again.

The point is.... All gov't employees, and ANY employee that takes the specific per diem rates for the cities they visit ARE required to take only 3/4 days for departure and return. BECAUSE we can take a "standard deduction" for any and all areas of the country... Method 2 allows us to take the full days (as shown in the example of JEN.)

Now.... I might not go so far as to claim a full day if I left out at, say.... 10 p.m. But... IF you take a break for an evening meal, (or a breakfast after midnight on the day of return,) and definitely IF any part of your 10 hour rest break falls within that 24 hour logsheet.... I would take the full day.

I will follow up with more info. I'm pretty sure I did a more thorough post on it somewhere, I just haven't found it yet. If not.... I'll find the pubs and do it all over again. BTW.... MY CPA, who was a railroad employee for years, agrees with MY reading of the statute.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:38 PM
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Default Per Diem Explained?

Copperhead: The pub was indeed #463. A direct link to the section of it on travel is here:

Publication 463 (2012), Travel, Entertainment, Gift, and Car Expenses

First look near the top for this section. IMHO... Example #1 clearly shows that a period LESS than 24 hours constitutes a basis for full per diem IF some time is allotted to getting rest. This is why I said maybe not just a few hours at departure when you only stop for a meal, but.... definitely if you start (or end) your rest break during that day.

Quote:
Traveling Away From Home

You are traveling away from home if:

* Your duties require you to be away from the general area of your tax home (defined later) substantially longer than an ordinary day's work, and

* You need to sleep or rest to meet the demands of your work while away from home.

This rest requirement is not satisfied by merely napping in your car. You do not have to be away from your tax home for a whole day or from dusk to dawn as long as your relief from duty is long enough to get necessary sleep or rest.

Example 1.

You are a railroad conductor. You leave your home terminal on a regularly scheduled round-trip run between two cities and return home 16 hours later. During the run, you have 6 hours off at your turnaround point where you eat two meals and rent a hotel room to get necessary sleep before starting the return trip. You are considered to be away from home.

Example 2.

You are a truck driver. You leave your terminal and return to it later the same day. You get an hour off at your turnaround point to eat. Because you are not off to get necessary sleep and the brief time off is not an adequate rest period, you are not traveling away from home.
This is not my main argument, but it may help to show how the IRS considers those in the Transportation Industry (discussed later.) It does not consider what to do if the 16 hours were to be split over two days... but, it does say you are traveling away from home if the TRIP requires you to get a rest period.

Now... let's look at the section on Special Rate for Transportation Workers (which starts about halfway down the page after the second icon showing a monitor with the IRS in it):

Quote:
Special rate for transportation workers. You can use a special standard meal allowance if you work in the transportation industry. You are in the transportation industry if your work:

* Directly involves moving people or goods by airplane, barge, bus, ship, train, or truck, and

* Regularly requires you to travel away from home and, during any single trip, usually involves travel to areas eligible for different standard meal allowance rates.

If this applies to you, you can claim a standard meal allowance of $59 a day ($65 for travel outside the continental United States).

Using the special rate for transportation workers eliminates the need for you to determine the standard meal allowance for every area where you stop for sleep or rest. If you choose to use the special rate for any trip, you must use the special rate (and not use the regular standard meal allowance rates) for all trips you take that year.

Travel for days you depart and return. For both the day you depart for and the day you return from a business trip, you must prorate the standard meal allowance [should add "for that specific city"] (figure a reduced amount for each day). You can do so by one of two methods.

Method 1: You can claim 3/4 of the standard meal allowance. [IMHO... this should add "for the area you visit"]

Method 2: You can prorate using any method that you consistently apply and that is in accordance with reasonable business practice.

Example.

Jen is employed in New Orleans as a convention planner. In March, her employer sent her on a 3-day trip to Washington, DC, to attend a planning seminar. She left her home in New Orleans at 10 a.m. on Wednesday and arrived in Washington, DC, at 5:30 p.m. After spending two nights there, she flew back to New Orleans on Friday and arrived back home at 8:00 p.m. Jen's employer gave her a flat amount to cover her expenses and included it with her wages.

Under Method 1, Jen can claim 2½ days of the standard meal allowance for Washington, DC: 3/4 of the daily rate for Wednesday and Friday (the days she departed and returned), and the full daily rate for Thursday.

Under Method 2, Jen could also use any method that she applies consistently and that is in accordance with reasonable business practice. For example, she could claim 3 days of the standard meal allowance [*] even though a federal employee would have to use Method 1 and be limited to only 2½ days.
[*] Here, I believe, the IRS is not being real clear. I THINK there are TWO "federal rates." One is from a list of rates for each city... the other is a STANDARD Federal meal allowance rate (about $46 I think.) I contend that they are giving an example of using the individual city rates (and prorating) OR.... using the federal standard meal allowance rate that covers travel anywhere in the U.S. .... and NOT prorating. To be exact, taking the standard rate for ALL areas/cities IS a form of "prorating" expenses as opposed to using the (often) higher rates for each area/city.

The example of Method 2 would be unnecessary if not for the EXPRESS difference of taking full days at ONE rate, versus partial days at the specific rate.

Not sure why they used the example of Jen.... a non-transportation industry employee... in this section other than to show that she has an option that a federal employee does not have. But... if SHE has it, so should WE. [And remember the example of the railroad worker who was only gone 16 hours out of a 24 hour day. Did he have to give up 1/4 of his rate for leaving after midnight, and another 1/4 for returning before midnight?] The reg wasn't clear on that... but, what do YOU think?

Now.... I could be wrong about this. But I did spend several years working with federal regs and this SOUNDS like the kind of ambiguity they specialize in. lol. Still.... I can see NO reason to give these two examples EXCEPT to show the difference between taking partial days at the specific standard meal allowance for the city nearest where we take our break (as explained elsewhere in this PUB) OR... to take FULL days (as Jen could in Method 2) at the generic standard meal allowance of $59/day (for us.)

At ANY rate.... If I am wrong, the difference is about $1500/year that you might have to pay... what... 20% of in taxes IF you are audited? And you have to do all the extra work of checking your logs for EACH day to see what part of a day you worked?

I would be happy and interested to consider the opinions from your son and those 5 CPA's AFTER you copy and send them this discussion. But, for now... I'm going to go with what MY CPA says... and he agrees with me.
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