[marcel27208]

yeah i would enjoy it too,,,,.....

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by thebaldeagle655

I have listened to several experts including Texas DPS Trooper Monte Dial on the "Road Dog", Sirius trucker channel about this. They all state that "unladen" means bobtail only, no trailer. I personally don't see this at all in the regulation or the interpretation but that is the way DOT interprets it. Also, I have heard some of the so-called experts that state that only owner/operators can take this, others state that anyone can as long as they have an authorization letter from their carrier.

Trooper Dial has been proven to be "misinformed" before.... and he is once again.

Unladen does NOT mean bobtail. It means "not under a bill of lading" and per the regs/guidance as Uturn quoted them, has nothing to do with whether or not a trailer is attached.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Scottt

If I bobtail from my house to the dealer to get my truck serviced do I have to log it? Why I ask is I was stopped for speeding by a DOT car. He asked to see my logbook.

He asked to see my cab card and insurance, then he asked to see my log book. I always log it when I bobtail to get my truck worked on then throw away the log when I get home and log the day off duty.

If I understand correctly, you are an O/O and OWN your truck. If you are at home and OFF DUTY, you do not need to log this. You would need your cab card (registration) and insurance.... like you would with ANY vehicle.... but you do not need to log it. You MAY need your logbook, but it can show that you are off duty from the time of your last duty change.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

If I understand correctly, you are an O/O and OWN your truck. If you are at home and OFF DUTY, you do not need to log this. You would need your cab card (registration) and insurance.... like you would with ANY vehicle.... but you do not need to log it. You MAY need your logbook, but it can show that you are off duty from the time of your last duty change.

You would be wrong. The fact that he is an O/O is irrelevant. All time servicing a truck (which would include time driving to the dealer to have it serviced) is On Duty time, which means that the time driving would be on line 3.

On Duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;
(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;
(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;
(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;
(6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle;
(7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, in order to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post-accident, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier;
(8) Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of, a motor carrier; and
(9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier.

Question 11: Must non transportation-related work for a motor carrier be recorded as on-duty time?
Guidance: Yes. All work for a motor carrier, whether compensated or not, must be recorded as on-duty time. The term “work” as used in the definition of “on-duty time” in §395.2 of the FMCSRs is not limited to driving or other non transportation-related employment.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

You would be wrong. The fact that he is an O/O is irrelevant. All time servicing a truck (which would include time driving to the dealer to have it serviced) is On Duty time, which means that the time driving would be on line 3.

No surprise, I'm sure.... but, I disagree with you Rev!

So, what YOU are saying is that the ON DUTY reg applies to an O/O (on his own hometime) while servicing his truck.... but NOT the alcohol carrying prohibition? Cuz.... that is what the FMCSA guidance says.

Question 3: Does the prohibition against carrying alcoholic beverages in §392.5 apply to a driver who uses a company vehicle, for personal reasons, while off-duty?


Guidance: No. For example, an owner-operator using his/her own vehicle in an off-duty status, or a driver using a company truck or tractor for transportation to a motel, restaurant, or home, would normally be outside the scope of this section.

This goes directly to our "discussion" about the On Duty reg. Since it is CLEAR that the regs say you can drive your truck home OFF DUTY if you are unladen and ROD... AND that you are exempt from the alcohol prohibition reg while doing so.... it is clear to ME that the rationale is that ALL subparas of the On Duty reg are subordinate to the TOPIC sentence that distinguishes between being ROD and being ON DUTY.

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work.

Obviously, subpara (3) "driving time" does not apply to any PART of your break time at home or on the road if you can log off duty while driving home. Why then, would you need to log line 3 if you wanted to drive your own truck to the grocery store OR to have it serviced? Besides.... note that Scott didn't say HE was servicing the truck. He said he TOOK it to be serviced.

And.... if (as I claim and have shown) subpara (3) is subordinate to the topic sentence criteria, then so would subpara (2) AND subpara (4) and all others. If not.... then once you got home, you would not even be able to enter your truck (or stand on the catwalk) for ANY reason during your 34 hour break without busting it. You can't clean it out. Can't take it to be painted or washed. Can't work on the generator. Nothing!

Almost forgot. You red-lettered subpara (8) in your post. By YOUR definition, this would include billing your customers and doing your "books" or filing your taxes. How about cashing your checks at the bank? Oh.... and don't BE on the load boards looking for a load during your 34 hour break!

Now... if YOU think that makes any sense, I submit that you are the LAST and ONLY one on this forum who DOES.

Let's see if this makes sense: You return to your terminal and are ROD'd for your 34 hour break. You can drive 8 hours or whatever to get to your home.... OFF DUTY. This time counts toward your 34 hour restart. Now... you GET home and are no longer driving (the part the guidance clearly exempts,) and you need to UNLOAD your dirty laundry. Ooops! You are ON THE TRUCK and not driving... and not resting in the sleeper!

By god.... the Rev says you must log this time as line 4!! Start your 34 hour restart ALL OVER AGAIN! :hellno::roll:

Your contentions defy ALL logic, Rev! EVEN that of the FMCSA. :eek2:

[Cluggy619]

Hmmm....alot of legal talk for a 2 1/2 hour trip..

My question is, as long as your driving a commercial vehicle, with a trailer, and your going 170 miles, why wouldn't you log it in your logbook?

It's only 2 1/2 hours....unless you are going to be out of hours by that time, I would go ahead and log it.

After you take a 34 hour restart, it's not going to matter. You start over again at 0.

I don't suggest running at all without logging it in your logbook. Not in a CMV. And that would go for anytime you're on the road.

To me, I just don't see the sense in doing so.

:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

[terrylamar]

Originally Posted by Josborn

Hmmm....alot of legal talk for a 2 1/2 hour trip..

My question is, as long as your driving a commercial vehicle, with a trailer, and your going 170 miles, why wouldn't you log it in your logbook?

It's only 2 1/2 hours....unless you are going to be out of hours by that time, I would go ahead and log it.

After you take a 34 hour restart, it's not going to matter. You start over again at 0.

I don't suggest running at all without logging it in your logbook. Not in a CMV. And that would go for anytime you're on the road.

To me, I just don't see the sense in doing so.

:bigthumbsup::bigthumbsup:

I bet you get home every weekend and a three hour trip has little meaning. I have experiences in the past where 15 minutes could have made or broke me. I cannot count on a 34 hour restart on a regular basis and want to conserve every minute I can.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Obviously, subpara (3) "driving time" does not apply to any PART of your break time at home or on the road if you can log off duty while driving home. Why then, would you need to log line 3 if you wanted to drive your own truck to the grocery store OR to have it serviced? Besides.... note that Scott didn't say HE was servicing the truck. He said he TOOK it to be serviced.

Because taking a truck to be serviced is performing a duty "in the capacity, service, or employ" of the motor carrier. Therefore such time needs to be recorded on line 3.

And.... if (as I claim and have shown) subpara (3) is subordinate to the topic sentence criteria, then so would subpara (2) AND subpara (4) and all others. If not.... then once you got home, you would not even be able to enter your truck (or stand on the catwalk) for ANY reason during your 34 hour break without busting it. You can't clean it out. Can't take it to be painted or washed. Can't work on the generator. Nothing!

That's correct. I'm sure most drivers do not log it that way, however. But driving a truck to have service done to it, or performing work on the truck yourself is performing "in the capacity, employ, or service" of a motor carrier, and would be regulated by the FMCSA. The fact that an owner operator is the motor carrier is completely irrelevant.

Almost forgot. You red-lettered subpara (8) in your post. By YOUR definition, this would include billing your customers and doing your "books" or filing your taxes. How about cashing your checks at the bank? Oh.... and don't BE on the load boards looking for a load during your 34 hour break!

The FMCSA does not regulate such things, unless they are compensated work.

Let's see if this makes sense: You return to your terminal and are ROD'd for your 34 hour break. You can drive 8 hours or whatever to get to your home.... OFF DUTY. This time counts toward your 34 hour restart. Now... you GET home and are no longer driving (the part the guidance clearly exempts,) and you need to UNLOAD your dirty laundry. Ooops! You are ON THE TRUCK and not driving... and not resting in the sleeper!

Unloading dirty laundry is not performing "in the capacity, employ, or service" of a motor carrier.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

The FMCSA does not regulate such things, unless they are compensated work.

Really? They HAVE to be "compensated?"

Question 11: Must non transportation-related work for a motor carrier be recorded as on-duty time?


Guidance: Yes. All work for a motor carrier, whether compensated or not, must be recorded as on-duty time. The term “work” as used in the definition of “on-duty time” in §395.2 of the FMCSRs is not limited to driving or other non transportation-related employment.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Really? They HAVE to be "compensated?"

I knew you'd post that reg, which proves you incorrect on your initial claim. Thanks for falling for it hook, line, and sinker!
:clap:

Golfhobo's claim:

Almost forgot. You red-lettered subpara (8) in your post. By YOUR definition, this would include billing your customers and doing your "books" or filing your taxes. How about cashing your checks at the bank? Oh.... and don't BE on the load boards looking for a load during your 34 hour break!

Now... if YOU think that makes any sense, I submit that you are the LAST and ONLY one on this forum who DOES.

The truth:

All work for a motor carrier, whether compensated or not, must be recorded as on-duty time.

At least now I know that all I have to do is sit back, and you'll contradict yourself and post the regs that prove you wrong. Thanks golfhobo!!!!:thumbsup::rofl: