[DLC]

I've been reading this board for more than a year (when I have time) and really enjoy it.

I'm very confused by all of the different opinions I've heard concerning ULS diesel fuel, as far as additives go.

I've heard that since the mid-90's, the composition of rubber fuel system components have been modified to withstand the effects of ULS fuel without deteriorating.

Many say that ULS fuel will cause premature injector failure and other problems.

Some recommend adding dexron II or motor oil to fuel, some say additives like Stanadyne, Howes, Diesel Kleen, etc. are necessary, others say they are not.

That stuff is expensive, but so are fuel injectors. It's hard to find an objective opinion on the subject, since everyone who publishes data is doing so as part of a sales pitch for their own product.

I'd be very interested in hearing what o/o's with earlier model (late 90's) engines are doing regarding this problem, if anything, or whether there really is a problem at all.

My mechanic recommended using a bottle of Stanadyne a month (12 oz bottle that treats 60 gallons), regardless of mileage, supposedly it has a residual effect and doesn't need to be added with every tankful.

If anyone would care to comment, I'm interested in learning what I can on the subject.

(If there's already a thread on this, a link would be great, I couldn't find it doing a search)

[billgrover56]

This comes from the EPA website:

Q. Will ULSD fuel affect the performance of my vehicle?
A. Engine and vehicle manufacturers expect ULSD fuel to be fully compatible with the existing fleet, including 2006 and earlier model year vehicles. In some instances, the introduction of ULSD fuel to older vehicles may affect fuel system components or loosen deposits in fuel tanks. As part of a good maintenance program, owners and operators of existing cars, trucks and buses are encouraged to monitor their diesel-powered vehicles closely for potential fuel system leaks or premature fuel filter plugging during the change-over to ULSD fuel.
Q. Can Low Sulfur Diesel fuel be burned without operational problems in 2007 model year and later cars and trucks?
A. Diesel-powered engines for 2007 and later model year highway vehicles are designed to operate only with ULSD fuel. Improper fuel use will reduce the efficiency and durability of engines, permanently damage advanced emissions control systems, reduce fuel economy and possibly prevent the vehicles from running at all.* Manufacturer warranties are likely to be voided by improper fuel use. Additionally, burning Low Sulfur Diesel fuel in 2007 and later model year diesel-powered cars, trucks and buses is illegal and punishable with civil penalties.*
Q. Will I need to put an additive in my fuel tank to replace the lubricity that was provided by the higher sulfur content?
A. Like Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, ULSD fuel requires good lubricity and corrosion inhibitors to prevent unacceptable engine wear. As necessary, additives to increase lubricity and to inhibit corrosion will be added to ULSD fuel prior to its retail sale. With these additives, ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.
Q. What are the penalties for failing to comply with EPA's ULSD fuel standards?
A. The new standards provide strong incentives for suppliers to provide the proper ULSD fuel formulation. Civil penalties of up to $32,500 per violation per day can be assessed for non-compliance with EPA’s ULSD fuel standards, or for misrepresentation of the sulfur level of diesel fuel. For more information about ULSD fuel standards and implementation, visit:U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

I have something that addresses the lubricity problem and will keep your fuel seals and injectors from wearing out pre-maturely. Go to www.ethosfr4u.com or call me, Bill Grover at 585-880-4423.

[bob h]

Originally Posted by DLC

I've been reading this board for more than a year (when I have time) and really enjoy it.

I'm very confused by all of the different opinions I've heard concerning ULS diesel fuel, as far as additives go.

I've heard that since the mid-90's, the composition of rubber fuel system components have been modified to withstand the effects of ULS fuel without deteriorating.

Many say that ULS fuel will cause premature injector failure and other problems.

Some recommend adding dexron II or motor oil to fuel, some say additives like Stanadyne, Howes, Diesel Kleen, etc. are necessary, others say they are not.

That stuff is expensive, but so are fuel injectors. It's hard to find an objective opinion on the subject, since everyone who publishes data is doing so as part of a sales pitch for their own product.

I'd be very interested in hearing what o/o's with earlier model (late 90's) engines are doing regarding this problem, if anything, or whether there really is a problem at all.

My mechanic recommended using a bottle of Stanadyne a month (12 oz bottle that treats 60 gallons), regardless of mileage, supposedly it has a residual effect and doesn't need to be added with every tankful.

If anyone would care to comment, I'm interested in learning what I can on the subject.

(If there's already a thread on this, a link would be great, I couldn't find it doing a search)

I WOULD NOT recommend dexron.

I DO recommend stanadyne, it is a reputable additive with many years of experience... they build the products that the additives are intended for.

I WOULD NOT recommend snake oil; the products that are being pushed more and more on truck owner web forums by snake oil salesman.

[billgrover56]

I wouldn't put snakes, snake oil or snake skin in my tank either.

[bob h]

Originally Posted by billgrover56

I wouldn't put snakes, snake oil or snake skin in my tank either.

I doubt that you would...

[mrpersons]

Her we go again!

I remember when we went to "low sulfer" diesel fuel back in '94(?), all the crap about reduced lubrisity etc etc, need to add this and that. Turned out be pretty much a non issue.

Now that we've changed over to "ultra low sulfer", we're at it again!

It's my contention that nothing needs to added!

Can you just imagine the amount of lawsuits a fuel manufacturer would recieve if they marketed a product which they claimed was suitable for use in any diesel engine be it a 1910 one banger up to a modern day 2007 EPA compliant chunk of iron??? No way are they going to open themselves up for that kind of abuse.

Has anyone thought about the removal of the sulfer may have actually improved the lubrisity of the fuel?? Since when is sulfer a lubricant???

Q. Will I need to put an additive in my fuel tank to replace the lubricity that was provided by the higher sulfur content?
A. Like Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, ULSD fuel requires good lubricity and corrosion inhibitors to prevent unacceptable engine wear. As necessary, additives to increase lubricity and to inhibit corrosion will be added to ULSD fuel prior to its retail sale. With these additives, ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.(from the EPA website, posted by the "snake oil" salesman himself. Is he trying to sell something that's allready in there??? Hmmmmm...

[bob h]

Originally Posted by mrpersons

Her we go again!

I remember when we went to "low sulfer" diesel fuel back in '94(?), all the crap about reduced lubrisity etc etc, need to add this and that. Turned out be pretty much a non issue.

Now that we've changed over to "ultra low sulfer", we're at it again!

It's my contention that nothing needs to added!

Can you just imagine the amount of lawsuits a fuel manufacturer would recieve if they marketed a product which they claimed was suitable for use in any diesel engine be it a 1910 one banger up to a modern day 2007 EPA compliant chunk of iron??? No way are they going to open themselves up for that kind of abuse.

Has anyone thought about the removal of the sulfer may have actually improved the lubrisity of the fuel?? Since when is sulfer a lubricant???

Q. Will I need to put an additive in my fuel tank to replace the lubricity that was provided by the higher sulfur content?
A. Like Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, ULSD fuel requires good lubricity and corrosion inhibitors to prevent unacceptable engine wear. As necessary, additives to increase lubricity and to inhibit corrosion will be added to ULSD fuel prior to its retail sale. With these additives, ULSD fuel is expected to perform as well as Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.(from the EPA website, posted by the "snake oil" salesman himself. Is he trying to sell something that's allready in there??? Hmmmmm...

Mr P, Sulfur content is not the issue, it is the hydrocracking process that is used to remove the sulfur that lowers fuel lubricity.

The next issue; yes it was '94, and yes there was lubricity related fuel system problems. One was that fuel system seals, o-rings, etc would shrink due to the LSF, and a resultant leak. Fuel injector plungers seizures became common due to the dry fuel also.

In a diesel fuel system, the fuel is a source of BTUs for power generation, it is also a lubricant for the many moving parts.

In '94 the fuel suppliers did not have a fuel lubricity spec, therefore no responsibility for causing lubrication related problems. In '07, ULSF does have a lubricity spec that must be met.

Will there be problems??? Probably no one knows at this point... but, keep in mind you're very likely burning it now, and have been for quite some time (months).

[nightprwlr]

In 1993 when California was the first state to start the craze I had '90 Freightliner with a Cummins in it and I fueled at the Pilot in Barstow, ran up I 15 to I 70 before I got to Denver I had to take the truck to Cummins and have new seals put in the pump, the mech/technician said that the low -sulphur diesel did'nt have the same lubricity as regular diesel back then. I used to run the norhtern routes quite a bit too burning no.1 diesel in the extreme cold and never had a problem but I've always used Howe's(not that I'm a spokesperson for them).

[bob h]

Originally Posted by nightprwlr

In 1993 when California was the first state to start the craze I had '90 Freightliner with a Cummins in it and I fueled at the Pilot in Barstow, ran up I 15 to I 70 before I got to Denver I had to take the truck to Cummins and have new seals put in the pump, the mech/technician said that the low -sulphur diesel did'nt have the same lubricity as regular diesel back then. I used to run the norhtern routes quite a bit too burning no.1 diesel in the extreme cold and never had a problem but I've always used Howe's(not that I'm a spokesperson for them).

a fuel lubricity specification was added to APIs list for '07 ulsd.

'94 had no such regulation.