34 Hour Restart & DOT Regs
 

The reason why I bring this topic up is because of the fact that there is a lot of chatter on the radio about issues such as the 34 hour reset rule.

Some say, and it is what I was taught:
If you take 34 hours off on either line 3 or 4 it is subject to a legal reset regardless of where you are located.

Others say, and it is what I disagree with:
You have to take your 34 hour reset at your home terminal.

Now, as I have looked through the Regs book on HOS. I have read through a number of different issues and it appears, to me, that they are vague at best.

Am I the only one who feels this way, and is there any publications that have the current regs that put it in a light that does not portray the law as having a gray area?

Well first off, taking 34 hours on lines 3 and 4 will get you into a bunch of trouble fast. :P :P

Line 3 is driving and line 4 is On duty not driving. I think you meant lines 1 an 2. (at least on a standard US log book)

Not too sure what is vague about that. Says nothing about being at home or at your home terminal or anything.

And then there is this from the FAQ's

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The reason you hear so much disinformation on the Cb is two-fold. The first is people who never research anything for themselves and 2. Thos who do know better but delight in being idiots and leading everyone who will listen to them astray.

Anyway, while I do agree that there are some FMCSA regs that can be a little confusing in and of themselves, if you take the time to look up the FAQ's and also the guidences provided for many of those regs things do become a lot more clear.

Well, first off you can't take 34 hours off on lines three or four, I'm assuming you're talking about lines 1 and 2 :wink:

I have a book around here somewhere that I think shows it a little clearer, but I'm in the middle of packing, so god only knows which box it's in....

But. I've taken many a 34-hour restart, and almost never has it been at a terminal, and I don't think I've ever taken it at my "home" terminal. I've had my logs looked at by DOT with no problems, and never carried a logbook violation for any company I've worked for.


EDIT - Dangit man, I was sitting here clicking post when you said what I did :wink:

Sorry Had a blonde moment there :) It's been a while since I looked at a log book :?

Yeah, all my point was to bring attention to some of the laws that are not as specific as they should be. I used the 34 hour rule because of the amount of time I hear chatter on the CB about it that's all :)

Actually, if one reads the regulations without putting any personal inflection, interpretation, or opinions into the reading they are quite straight forward.

Simply stated: 34 consecutive hours off duty, without or without sleeper berth periods....gets you a reset of your 70 hours. Doesn't matter where it occurs, you can even be hanging by your heels over a well.... :shock:

There is an old saying that goes like this, and any military veteran will recognize it: Don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see with your own eyes.

Turn the CB lawyers off.....99% haven't a clue, literally.

What you need to do is get one of the FMCSR books that includes the "interpretations" and "guidance" sections that you do not have in the small pocketbook you have now. The book with the guidance and interpretations is what the DOT uses.... 8)

Yeah, I keep the FMCSA Bible in the pocket in the drivers door for those occasional readings when I wasn't doing anything.

You make a good point though. You have to read it for what it is. Sometimes, though, you have to wonder and that is what will get you in trouble at times!

I received this one in Arrow's orientation. While I like having the pocketbook sized one for ease of carry, the one with the interpretations are worth their weight in gold.

http://www.mancomm.com/dot/images/driverbookcover.JPG

Purchase it here

Perfect! I will get one along with the standard reading material :)

Hey, :D :D Thanks for posting the picture and the link!! I tried to remember the link and couldn't. It was on my old laptop that crashed :sad: I'm going through some tanker training up here in Kingsport, TN and Superior gave us all the new copy that you show in the picture here.

These things are worth their weight in gold no doubt!! Any driver who doesn't have one leaves themselves open to being misguided or taken advantage of.

And the beauty of this book is that it is not written in "legalese", but written in standard english.

No problem! If more drivers actually understood the laws, more of us would stop making silly errors that could be easily avoided. :wink:

That is the whole point I was trying to make :)

Alot of the laws that are there are not always the written the best. I have to do more looking into the laws so I can get a better understanding and so that if I run into a log violation that I know is farse, then I can have a better chance at fighting it.

I had a 14 hour violation when I was with Swift that I was never able to clear. I had gotten stuck on 140 heading to Klamath Falls, when I had ignorantly pulled my chains off BEFORE climbing the final hill before heading into town. Of the chains I had, I had 3 break on me, and I ended up chaining up one drive and one trailer tire (2 is better than none).

I then was towed up the hill and was told by OSP to get to the Wagon Wheel truck stop in Klamath Falls. So, under their direction, I did just that. Swift was aware of that, and after fighting with them over the issue, they still pinned me with it citing that I did not get a business card from the OSP Trooper that was there with me.

I went over my 14 by 1 hour (I spent 3 hours stuck), and still was legal, and it was stated as so on my logs... If I would have really pushed the issue and read up on the legalities, I would not have had this issue.

I haven't started yet but trying to bone up on the reg and logging, so bear with me on this. Can someone give a quickie explanation on what the 60/70 and 7/8 mean. I'm having a problem understanding when the 34 hours has to start. Does this mean that I'm sitting on my ass for 34 hours every week, at some point? I guess what I'm asking is what has to happen for me to be forced to sit on my thumb for 34 hours.

You cannot drive after you have accumulated 60 hours in 7 days (if the carrier does not operate 7 days a week), or 70 hours in 8 days (if the carrier operates every day of the week). This means that, even if YOU don't run every day of the week, but the carrier has trucks on the road every day of the week, you go by the 70/8 rule.

It can start whenever you want it to. It is not mandatory, but must consist of Sleeper Berth, Off Duty, or any combination of the two.

It is not mandatory, but is a way to reset your 60/70 hour clock to zero.

That's funny, listening to the BBR's one would think 60/70 is the average speed you log going through any big city and 7/8 is what you log on line 1 or 2 when you sit in the dock for that long. :P

So if I drive 69 hours in 8 days then I don't need a 34 restart? Or is there a restart every 8 days regardless. Can the restart be avoided or is it mandatory every 70 hours? I'm assuming the 70 hours means 70 hours of driving time.

A 34 hour reset is optional, you can take it any time. I used to take a 34 every weekend at home, regardless if I had 40 hours or 70 hours on duty time for the week.

The 70 hour rule is a combination of all time on line 3 and 4.

NevadaJim wrote:

Now... let's start OVER, shall we?

You cannot DRIVE if you exceed 70 hours of ON DUTY (3 & 4) in 8 days.

There are TWO ways to get hours back. The "rolling" method is this:

At the end of seven days, add your TOTAL hours worked 3 & 4. Let's say that comes to 65 hours. Subtract from 70, and you have 5 hours that you can DRIVE on your 8th day. You MAY work more on line 4, but then you have to add both lines together to show how much you have WORKED in 8 days.

If this total exceeds 70, you cannot DRIVE the next day, until you get more hours back at midnight of that day.

However, if you've NOT exceeded 70, at midnight of the 8th day, you count your total hours worked for the past 7 days including today. That means you get BACK the hours you worked on the 8th day back! Take this NEW total of 7 days worked, and subtract from 70. That is how many hours you can DRIVE the next day, provided you have not exceeded 70 hours INCLUDING all 8 days. (the 8th day back STILL counts against your 70 rule.)

Okay.... THAT's clear as MUD! :shock: :lol: I'll come back to that!

The RESET method is this:

When you have come close to, or exceeded 70 hours TOTAL worktime in 8 days or LESS, you can - at anytime- begin a 34 hour reset to get ALL 70 of your hours back! Your NEW 8 day period and 70 hours begins as soon as your reset is over. [This can OFTEN be gotten by adding your 10 hour break following a day of driving/working to a 24 hour "layover."]

Now, back to the difficult "rolling" method: You are allowed to drive 11 hours/day, right? But, NOT indefinitely! Let's use 10 hours a day. If you drive/work TOTAL 10 hours a day for 7 days.... you are maxed out. On the 8th day, you cannot DRIVE. Might as well take a 34 hour reset as to sit for 24 just to get ONE day's hours back. [And... if that day happened to be sitting waiting for a load, you might get ZERO hours back.]

Now, if you use the method given to us by Crackaces some time ago, you can LIMIT your activities (or AVERAGE them out) to 8.75 hours TOTAL work per day. 8.75 X 8 days = 70 hours in 8 days. At midnight you will get back 8.75 hours to work or drive the next day. If you can manage your time well enough, you could keep this up INDEFINITELY without having to take a reset OR sit for a day. [MY luck, the day I get back 3 piddly hours, my dispatcher would want me to drive 11!]

Personally, I wouldn't want to tell my dispatch that I can't make a Thursday delivery because I will ONLY work 8.75 hours a day! I THINK he will want you to "burn asphalt" and get 'er done..... THEN tell him you are out of hours and must take a reset before he dispatches you another load.

I HOPE I have cleared this up for you. In short.... you CAN manage your time and keep running 365 days a year.... but it is not usually feasible. More likely, you will be taking 34 hour resets whenever you can get one, to get ALL your hours back.

Just remember: 11 hours / day = 70 hours in JUST over 6 days! 14 hours / day = 70 hours in 5 days! What you gonna do for the other 3 days?

It's even worse for Canadian drivers, we're allowed 13 hours of driving time in Canada!

And the SAME 70/8 rules???? :shock:

FINALLY!!!!

I'm gettin SICK of getting the "banned" message that YOOPR says isn't happening!!! I posted that 6 times before I got it through!!!

Thank GOD I didn't lose another of my LONG posts!!!! :roll: :roll:

I have started copying my post before submitting them.

I've been doing that most of the time, when they are long - involved posts. I've been bitten more than once on those! But, this was just 5 little words and a smilie!! LOL!!! Can't believe I had to type it six times to get it through!!

Roadhog must have installed a "sphyncter filter!" :lol:

Why not do as I do. Type it in a word processor (something like Notepad). Make copy. Then post it to the forum.

You guys are way too sophisticated for me....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

speaking of the reset, how is that logged, exactly? I've been having issues with the person checking our logs, about the way I've been doing that, specifically with hours worked in previous days. Does the FMCSA have an example? I couldn't find one.

It should be logged as it happened. If you were in the sleeper berth, then it should be logged as sleeper berth. If you got out of the truck, then it should be off duty. The 34 hour reset can be any combination of the two, as long as it isn't broken up with any on duty time.

If you are referring to the recap (which I think you are), just zero it out after completing the 34 hour reset. That is the purpose of the reset - to zero out everything.

But, that being said, do it as your safety department tells you to do it.

Keep in mind no one is going to believe you was in the sleeper 34 hours straight. DOT will question you on this.

Yet another uninformed nugget of misinformation from Dawn. :roll:

I've done a full 34 hour reset without EVER leaving my truck. SEVERAL TIMES. Maybe when you actually DRIVE a truck, Dawn, you can make a claim such as this. :roll:

Yeah, the recap. Sorta. We're using loose-leaf that has the last 7 days, today's hours, and total. They've got me carrying days prior of reset in 2 days... the day of reset *and* onto the next day. If I have to use a second sheet of paper to add up hours... it ain't right. I think she got over zealous trying to correct me. I was zeroing out the 7 days on the day of the reset and she didn't like that- wanted to previous days shown. The last time, she wanted me to carry them in passed the day of reset, which makes no sense to me at all.

Considering all of my resets are done in the comfort of my own home, I don't think I'll spend much time worrying about that one. Assuming I was on the road for a 34hr reset, though, I bet my ruler and pen would make a couple of nifty jogs up to line 1 here and there, just to break up the monotony of a line spanning 34 hours. Thanks for the tip, though. :wink:

Yes, that doesn't make sense, but if they want you to do it that way, then I guess there is little you can do.

Is there anyone else who does logs for your company? If so, ask them how the company would like the recap done after a 34 hour reset. It might be that this person just has no idea.

Sorry Golf, I didn't see your response earlier.

We now have 70/7, and now have a reset. Only problem is that it's 36 hours instead of 34.

I've never been questioned by the DOT as to whether I actually spent the entire 34hrs sitting in the sleeper. They know we're going to get out of the truck, walk into the truckstop for meals/shower/restroom.

I've also logged a 34hr restart as off-duty, even though I was in the sleeper. Again, never had it become an issue.

One last thing - For the life of me I still can't figure out how they came up with the 34hr restart. Why not 36, 40, or 48? It'd make more sense if it was in a 4hr increment.

I was under the impression the 34 hour reset can be any combination of off-duty(lines 1 and 2).

It can.

Dawns Statement:
It should be logged as it happened. If you were in the sleeper berth, then it should be logged as sleeper berth. If you got out of the truck, then it should be off duty. The 34 hour reset can be any combination of the two, as long as it isn't broken up with any on duty time.

Again: You should not log 34 hours in the sleeper if you was not really in the sleeper for 34 hours.


DOT Q&A:

Question 26: May a driver record sleeper berth time as off-duty time on line one of the record of duty status?
Guidance: No. The driver's record of duty status must accurately reflect the driver's activities


Sounds pretty clear you should not be logging in the sleeper when you are really in the truck stop.

As we all know some officers will question you on something and some won't. Learn before you get the citation :). Again not false information, it is facts!

No, Dawn's statement was pretty matter-of-fact:

Since when are you psychic, and can tell what "no one is going to believe"? When you make absolute statements such as this, you better have something to back it up with (which you don't). If I spent the full 34 hours in the sleeper, then I'm going to log it as such. If DOT doesn't want to believe me, then that is their problem, not mine. Good luck to them trying to prove it.

This is yet another case of Dawn trying to pretend that she is in the head of DOT, and knows what they are thinking, and how they will react to a situation. I've got a news flash for you, Dawn. Things are different in the REAL world, as opposed to DAWN'S world. In the REAL world, not all DOT handles situations the same. One might question a full 34 hours in a sleeper berth, and another might not. But when you state an absolute statement such as:

Then it shows how little you really know. :roll:

If you read the statement I stated it should be logged as it happened! If you spent 34 hours in the sleeper (DOUBTFULL) then log it as such, but be ready for the questions from "some" of the officers! Again it is unlikely a driver will spend 34 hours in the sleeper without getting out of it.
Hey why don't we get about 20 drivers to ask DOT if I log in 34 hours in the sleeper what would you say to me? Again, if you do happen to say be sick and spend 34 hours in the sleeper, then you should log it as such, but if you are running in the truck stop and visiting and then back to the sleeper it should be logged as such. Will this affect your 34? NO! You did not do any work.
Therefore my statement was very true and accurate Rev! Again picking a fight! Move ON to someone else! I had the words to back it up :)

No, your original statement said nothing about logging it as it happened.

How many 34 hour resets have you done in a sleeper berth? That's what I thought - ZERO.

So now it's changed from ALL officers to SOME officers, huh? :roll:

This coming from someone who has NEVER slept in a sleeper, and doesn't even hold a CMV. :roll:

How about a more REALISTIC question, such as:

How many of you drivers log all your 34 hour reset on the sleeper berth line, and have never had DOT say a darn thing about it? How many have had DOT question it?

Yeah - these words:

From what I been reading on here, it my understanding as long as you got hours coming back on you can still drive up to the max number of hours you have coming back on each day. Same as before they changed the rules.

Yes. If you gain hours @ midnight you have them hours to drive. You do not have to take a 34 hour restart. IF you might get loaded to Canada you might start taking 36 hour breaks instead of 34.

Have a great night :)