[MichiganDriver]

Originally Posted by LogBook

you do not have to have bol# on your log all you need is shipper/and what your hauling(gen,ltl,ect) you do not need to write anything more then(nerest) city,st.(never use mile marker/hwy) ie.. you do not need to write pre trip,fuel,load/unload anything on a flag but city and st. you must fill in all spaces on your log. i have my logs made with very minamal info. i do not get paid for fueling my trk so i fuel off duty and have always won my auits/dot cks,...........you only have to flag pritrip,load/unload onduty not driving. the more info you give the more they have to trip you up. all my recite go in a box dot only gets bol and fuel recard to ck agains logs, you can white out any date/time and corect it(befor hand),even tolls.

It sounds like you've done your homework on this. The one part of what you said that I'm up to speed on is the part about not writing down what you're doing at each stop. I carry a printout with me in case I'm ever hassled about it.

From part 395.8 question 23 of the guidance asking about whether a description is required when duty status changes their answer is:

"No. Many motor carriers require drivers to identify work performed during a change of duty status. Part 395 neither requires nor prohibits this practice."

And I agree with you, why give them any more information than necessary. They'll just use it to try and reach into your pocket and take part of your paycheck from you.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by LogBook

you do not have to have bol# on your log all you need is shipper/and what your hauling(gen,ltl,ect) you do not need to write anything more then(nerest) city,st.(never use mile marker/hwy) ie.. you do not need to write pre trip,fuel,load/unload anything on a flag but city and st. you must fill in all spaces on your log. i have my logs made with very minamal info. i do not get paid for fueling my trk so i fuel off duty and have always won my auits/dot cks,...........you only have to flag pritrip,load/unload onduty not driving. the more info you give the more they have to trip you up. all my recite go in a box dot only gets bol and fuel recard to ck agains logs, you can white out any date/time and corect it(befor hand),even tolls.

Posts like this are a big part of the reason why I haven’t added drivers in the four years I've had my own operating authority. Clearly you have the right to run things how you see fit, but you really shouldn't give bad advice to others who might be looking to obey the rules or at least stay below the DOT radar.

You are right about SOME things, wrong about others, and in other cases, offering advice that could not only cause closer scrutiny of you, your truck and your logs, but also get you and others following your advice arrested (altering receipts etc. IS a crime).

You are not ALWAYS okay just putting nearest city and state. The regs state in § 395.8 Driver's record of duty status…..

“If a change of duty status occurs at a location other than a city, town, or village, show one of the following: (1) The highway number and nearest milepost followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation, (2) the highway number and the name of the service plaza followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation, or (3) the highway numbers of the nearest two intersecting roadways followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation.”

Clearly there are times when simply putting a city and state would not meet the requirements of the regs. Out west, there are places where the nearest city is fifty miles. In such a case you would need to put the above quoted reg into action.

I promise those tempted to follow your advice that if they do not show at least one fifteen-minute period on-duty not driving for a pre-trip (and flagged as such) and at least one flagged “visual inspection” each day that they have driving time, they will eventually run into an officer who will write them a ticket for it.

Additionally, unless you or your carrier pays somebody to fuel your truck, you DO get paid for doing it. The truck can’t be driven without fuel, so just like the pre and post trip inspections, just like picking up and delivering, it is part of your job as the driver. You might get away with it with some lazy or incompetent officers, but most officers or smart and motivated enough to cite you for it. The only time you do not need to log fueling on line 4 (on-duty not driving) is if it is less than fifty gallons. In such an event, simply flagging the point on line 3 (driving) when and where you fueled is acceptable.

I've found over the years that whether I’m running legal or not, the best defense against getting a warning or ticket is to be OVERLY prepared. My logs are extremely clean and neat and have so much information that it’s too much work for most officers to bother trying to find fault. I try to look clean, awake and freshly shaven at all times when I’m behind the wheel because looking tired, dirty, or disorganized are all “tells” to the experienced officer that something is probably amiss.

All this will be moot anyway once we all have to install EOBRs.

[LogBook]

"for those that read this please fallow what your companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

Originally Posted by Musicman

Posts like this are a big part of the reason why I haven’t added drivers in the four years I've had my own operating authority. Clearly you have the right to run things how you see fit, but you really shouldn't give bad advice to others who might be looking to obey the rules or at least stay below the DOT radar.

You are right about SOME things, wrong about others, and in other cases, offering advice that could not only cause closer scrutiny of you, your truck and your logs, but also get you and others following your advice arrested (altering receipts etc. IS a crime)..

you should learn the law befor you commit something is a crime. and as i sayed to corect it.(the date/time). dont pick just one pice of a statement. ie. ever pull up to a toll both and the attendent has pre-printed a stack of recites, the times are not going to match. ever got bills that were pre printed that morning when you arived and dint get loaded for 2-3 hrs later. as i sayed beforhand as in at time it hapend.

[/QUOTE]You are not ALWAYS okay just putting nearest city and state. The regs state in § 395.8 Driver's record of duty status…..

“If a change of duty status occurs at a location other than a city, town, or village, show one of the following: (1) The highway number and nearest milepost followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation, (2) the highway number and the name of the service plaza followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation, or (3) the highway numbers of the nearest two intersecting roadways followed by the name of the nearest city, town, or village and State abbreviation.”

Clearly there are times when simply putting a city and state would not meet the requirements of the regs. Out west, there are places where the nearest city is fifty miles. In such a case you would need to put the above quoted reg into action..[/QUOTE]

im not going to get my reg out right now, but i will and once again your picking a reg apart for your liking,

[/QUOTE]I promise those tempted to follow your advice that if they do not show at least one fifteen-minute period on-duty not driving for a pre-trip (and flagged as such) and at least one flagged “visual inspection” each day that they have driving time, they will eventually run into an officer who will write them a ticket for it..[/QUOTE]

you need to reread what i sayed not what you think you read!! i never sayed those thing did not need to be flaged.

[/QUOTE]Additionally, unless you or your carrier pays somebody to fuel your truck, you DO get paid for doing it. The truck can’t be driven without fuel, so just like the pre and post trip inspections, just like picking up and delivering, it is part of your job as the driver. You might get away with it with some lazy or incompetent officers, but most officers or smart and motivated enough to cite you for it. The only time you do not need to log fueling on line 4 (on-duty not driving) is if it is less than fifty gallons. In such an event, simply flagging the point on line 3 (driving) when and where you fueled is acceptable..[/QUOTE]

i have won this fight w/dot. no i cant be in the sleeper or driving and yes a flag at the time i go off duty and when i come back on and the fueling must be done were and in the time fram im off duty

[/QUOTE]I've found over the years that whether I’m running legal or not, the best defense against getting a warning or ticket is to be OVERLY prepared. My logs are extremely clean and neat and have so much information that it’s too much work for most officers to bother trying to find fault. I try to look clean, awake and freshly shaven at all times when I’m behind the wheel because looking tired, dirty, or disorganized are all “tells” to the experienced officer that something is probably amiss..[/QUOTE]

yes how one looks and the trk they drive(upkeep) can go a long way.
the tread was obout bol but i overly injected my self that tomany drivers think is law that all this info must be given. as i sayed in my post you must fill out all asked for info. as i sayed i have my logs made to show as little as needed.

"for those that read this please fallow what you companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

[/QUOTE]All this will be moot anyway once we all have to install EOBRs.[/QUOTE] sorry some give in to the fight that easy....ober is not about the cost to small co. and o/o its about the depanablty facter that the small co. and o/o have over the big co. so they are pushing it to make the little guy not as depenble or forced in a tighter box.

bye the way i have a cleen cmv and 0% on my csa 15yrs driving accadent free. hows yours?<- ok i wrote this last statment and i see im comming off as a ass now, thats not what i was trying to do and as in my first post, i was not carefull or right in the why i state things, i stand bye the way i fill, the more you give them the more they have to quition you on and get you triped up, and they will(most driver are nervice to start w/dot) even if you have everything write,


"for those that read this please fallow what you companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

btw i will also get you the reg on corecting dates and times on the recites why im in my book.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by LogBook

"for those that read this please fallow what your companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

you should learn the law befor you commit something is a crime. and as i sayed to corect it.(the date/time). dont pick just one pice of a statement. ie. ever pull up to a toll both and the attendent has pre-printed a stack of recites, the times are not going to match. ever got bills that were pre printed that morning when you arived and dint get loaded for 2-3 hrs later. as i sayed beforhand as in at time it hapend.

im not going to get my reg out right now, but i will and once again your picking a reg apart for your liking,

you need to reread what i sayed not what you think you read!! i never sayed those thing did not need to be flaged.

i have won this fight w/dot. no i cant be in the sleeper or driving and yes a flag at the time i go off duty and when i come back on and the fueling must be done were and in the time fram im off duty

yes how one looks and the trk they drive(upkeep) can go a long way.
the tread was obout bol but i overly injected my self that tomany drivers think is law that all this info must be given. as i sayed in my post you must fill out all asked for info. as i sayed i have my logs made to show as little as needed.

"for those that read this please fallow what you companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

sorry some give in to the fight that easy....ober is not about the cost to small co. and o/o its about the depanablty facter that the small co. and o/o have over the big co. so they are pushing it to make the little guy not as depenble or forced in a tighter box.

bye the way i have a cleen cmv and 0% on my csa 15yrs driving accadent free. hows yours?<- ok i wrote this last statment and i see im comming off as a ass now, thats not what i was trying to do and as in my first post, i was not carefull or right in the why i state things, i stand bye the way i fill, the more you give them the more they have to quition you on and get you triped up, and they will(most driver are nervice to start w/dot) even if you have everything write,

"for those that read this please fallow what you companys ask of you and those that wish to do it there way, read the reg book and intupatat(sorry bad speller) it as you fill best"LogBook

btw i will also get you the reg on corecting dates and times on the recites why im in my book.

I'm not trying to be as ass as you have, but if you made some minimal effort to use things like proper sentence structure and spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc. it would make what you have typed much, much easier to decipher and understand.

I stand by what I have already typed. You can take whatever chances you want with your operation, but you are doing a great disservice to the younger or less experienced driver looking for honest advice. Anyone following your advice to the letter will definitely at some point pay out of pocket for it when they run into the wrong DOT officer.

I really don’t care if you've passed audits or not. My DOT auditor told me since I’m the president of my LLC and I’m personally the owner of my equipment that I really don’t have to do a daily vehicle inspection. I told him he was crazy if he thought I would get away with that in California or many other states. I fill my logs out so that they make as many officers as possible happy because while I can spend massive amounts of money and time fighting something in court that I know I’m right about, it’s a heck of a lot easier, cheaper and smarter to avoid the problem in the first place. At the scale house or on the side of the road, the law is whatever the inspecting officer says it is at that time.

And by the way, in my 15 years on the road and close to two million miles, I have zero at fault accidents and one ticket that I got thirteen years ago. My CSA scores are all zero except one BASIC that my wife hurt by not having her seat belt on and cost us a couple points (3.33 actually).