Alcohol and OTR... Part Deux!
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04-21-2018
#52
RebelDarlin , 08-02-2008 09:02 AM
#53
HWD said:
I'd be interested to know why they don't meet their monthly quotas by just invading every truckstop in their jurisdiction. Probable cause? finding an empty 12 pack carton in any trash can in the vicinity should give them enough probable cause to roust every driver in the parking lot. Why don't they?
Ask him THAT while you're asking him how agressive he is in stopping CMV's IN OPERATION! What about "physical control?"
I have conceded that some states have stricter rules concerning "physical control" whle showing that others are less strict. I have conceded (or do now,) that some states have lesser offenses than DUI for a CMV driver who has ANY trace of alcohol in his system while OPERATING a CMV, but continue to point out that the FMCSA regulations have set acceptable limits for the legal USE of alcohol as long as you are not OPERATING a CMV on a highway, public street or Public Vehicular Area.
This includes "cruising" the truckstop parking lot for a better parking spot! But, I just don't see the CLEAR regulation that could easily be written that says no driver who is OFF DUTY, cannot have some level of alcohol in his system while PARKED in a truckstop, NOT on-duty, and NOT "performing safety sensitive functions." (or ABOUT to perform.. or just AFTER performing.)
To the contrary, I see NUMEROUS regulations that attempt to spell out the limits of using a "legal substance," the LIMITS of what a company can do about it, and the CLEAR distinction between this and the TOTAL prohibition concerning the ILLEGAL use of ILLEGAL drugs whether on duty or OFF DUTY.
It would have been the simplest of things for the FMCSA to NOT separate alcohol use and illegal drug use in their regulations. Just simply say, ANY evidence of the use of EITHER is an automatic suspension of your CDL! But, they DIDN'T, did they? In fact, they had to include the word "misuse" of alcohol and set different levels for it! obviously, they had a right to, and DID, prohibit the OPERATION of a CMV under the influence of either! But, the key word here is OPERATION, in support of their mission statement to reduce fatalities on the HIGHWAYS!
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, HWD. YOU, and moreso many others here seem willing to debate the regs without the necessity of personal insult. I am trying to respond in kind! But, I"d be willing to bet the NEXT post is from one of a few who cannot help but ridicule out of ignorance or condemn out of a mistaken sense of superiority. :roll:
Hobo...... with a "B" :P
BTW..... did I emphasize the keyword OPERATE as used extensively by the FMCSA? :lol:
Quote:
Just for grins and partial boredom I called down to a friend of mine who has been with NCSHP motor carrier enforcement since the days when they drove goofy looking cars and were called the NC DMV...
He said:Just for grins and partial boredom I called down to a friend of mine who has been with NCSHP motor carrier enforcement since the days when they drove goofy looking cars and were called the NC DMV...
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CMV is moving, driver BAC better than 0.00 = DWI arrest.
Better call Barney Fife back and ask him to be more specific. Ask him to explain the difference between NC Statute 20-138.2 (Driving a CMV while Impaired) and 20-138.2(a) (Operating a CMV after consuming alcohol.)CMV is moving, driver BAC better than 0.00 = DWI arrest.
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CMV is parked, ANY open containers found within = Citation for open container.
Better make sure it is a highway, street or PVA. Although, there is room for debate, I CONCEDE that a truckstop MAY be considered a PVA, and therefore, they COULD be that shitty, but..... in reality..... it doesn't happen.CMV is parked, ANY open containers found within = Citation for open container.
I'd be interested to know why they don't meet their monthly quotas by just invading every truckstop in their jurisdiction. Probable cause? finding an empty 12 pack carton in any trash can in the vicinity should give them enough probable cause to roust every driver in the parking lot. Why don't they?
Quote:
I know individual cops view things differently, but on this they all view it the same. Open container anywhere in a commercial motor vehicle, at any time, at any location equals open container citation.
Really? To the point that a truckstop that sells beer to a trucker is "aiding and abetting?" Seems like that would be an easy "bust" every night for Barney Fife and friends! Wonder why they DON'T?I know individual cops view things differently, but on this they all view it the same. Open container anywhere in a commercial motor vehicle, at any time, at any location equals open container citation.
Ask him THAT while you're asking him how agressive he is in stopping CMV's IN OPERATION! What about "physical control?"
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So, go ahead and roll them dice... :?
Maybe it IS a "roll of the dice" and I am NOT suggesting that one should! I am just trying to get to the FACTS! So that the next noobie who says someone like P.Gnu told him that anything over .001 is an automatic DUI, or that he can't have a beer or two with dinner while OFF DUTY or on 34 hour reset, can be adequately informed. Anyone's prudish concerns about the integrity of the industry, or failure to understand the meaning of ROD and OFF DUTY, notwithstanding! So, go ahead and roll them dice... :?
I have conceded that some states have stricter rules concerning "physical control" whle showing that others are less strict. I have conceded (or do now,) that some states have lesser offenses than DUI for a CMV driver who has ANY trace of alcohol in his system while OPERATING a CMV, but continue to point out that the FMCSA regulations have set acceptable limits for the legal USE of alcohol as long as you are not OPERATING a CMV on a highway, public street or Public Vehicular Area.
This includes "cruising" the truckstop parking lot for a better parking spot! But, I just don't see the CLEAR regulation that could easily be written that says no driver who is OFF DUTY, cannot have some level of alcohol in his system while PARKED in a truckstop, NOT on-duty, and NOT "performing safety sensitive functions." (or ABOUT to perform.. or just AFTER performing.)
To the contrary, I see NUMEROUS regulations that attempt to spell out the limits of using a "legal substance," the LIMITS of what a company can do about it, and the CLEAR distinction between this and the TOTAL prohibition concerning the ILLEGAL use of ILLEGAL drugs whether on duty or OFF DUTY.
It would have been the simplest of things for the FMCSA to NOT separate alcohol use and illegal drug use in their regulations. Just simply say, ANY evidence of the use of EITHER is an automatic suspension of your CDL! But, they DIDN'T, did they? In fact, they had to include the word "misuse" of alcohol and set different levels for it! obviously, they had a right to, and DID, prohibit the OPERATION of a CMV under the influence of either! But, the key word here is OPERATION, in support of their mission statement to reduce fatalities on the HIGHWAYS!
Quote:
(Oh and for those of you who love to split them hairs, we were not talking about the exemption for passengers in buses and limos...we were talking about the kind of trucks that pull trailers full of stuff, the kind which people on this forum drive, or drove for a living - to include straight trucks that fall under CMV rules.)
Thanks for stating the obvious! :roll: And, once again I point out that they STIPULATED the difference here, so that they would not be as MISUNDERSTOOD as they continue to BE! This particular "stipulation" is to allow a CMV driver of a passenger vehicle to be OPERATING his CMV without being in violation! The obvious inference is that the rest of us, per the regs, cannot OPERATE a CMV with unmanifested alcohol on board! (Oh and for those of you who love to split them hairs, we were not talking about the exemption for passengers in buses and limos...we were talking about the kind of trucks that pull trailers full of stuff, the kind which people on this forum drive, or drove for a living - to include straight trucks that fall under CMV rules.)
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, HWD. YOU, and moreso many others here seem willing to debate the regs without the necessity of personal insult. I am trying to respond in kind! But, I"d be willing to bet the NEXT post is from one of a few who cannot help but ridicule out of ignorance or condemn out of a mistaken sense of superiority. :roll:
Hobo...... with a "B" :P
BTW..... did I emphasize the keyword OPERATE as used extensively by the FMCSA? :lol:
#54
Orangetxguy , 08-03-2008 01:28 PM
WOW !!!
I have a letter in my "Registration Book" signed by the president of the company I am leased to, that relieves me of responsibility of the unit "while under dispatch", so that I may attend to personal matters.
There is a codicil though. I must be fully capable of fullfilling all of my obligations, while under dispatch...which means "No Drinking" while off duty, and still under dispatch. RE; The trailer is loaded or empty, bearing a UN or NA placard.
I have a letter in my "Registration Book" signed by the president of the company I am leased to, that relieves me of responsibility of the unit "while under dispatch", so that I may attend to personal matters.
There is a codicil though. I must be fully capable of fullfilling all of my obligations, while under dispatch...which means "No Drinking" while off duty, and still under dispatch. RE; The trailer is loaded or empty, bearing a UN or NA placard.
#55
Quote:
I have a letter in my "Registration Book" signed by the president of the company I am leased to, that relieves me of responsibility of the unit "while under dispatch", so that I may attend to personal matters.
There is a codicil though. I must be fully capable of fullfilling all of my obligations, while under dispatch...which means "No Drinking" while off duty, and still under dispatch. RE; The trailer is loaded or empty, bearing a UN or NA placard.
Good for you, TX! And, I believe you indicate that you haul HAZMAT! that is a completely different animal, and is addressed as such in the regs.Originally Posted by Orangetxguy
WOW !!!I have a letter in my "Registration Book" signed by the president of the company I am leased to, that relieves me of responsibility of the unit "while under dispatch", so that I may attend to personal matters.
There is a codicil though. I must be fully capable of fullfilling all of my obligations, while under dispatch...which means "No Drinking" while off duty, and still under dispatch. RE; The trailer is loaded or empty, bearing a UN or NA placard.
To "paraphrase," no hazmat hauler is EVER ROD (relieved of duty) and is ALWAYS respnsible for his load. To be HONEST with you, I don't know how they can log off duty time that DOESN'T go against their 70 hours! But, that is not my problem, and is NOT the crux of this argument!
"I" have a card that says I'm Relieved of Duty for so much as a LUNCH hour! And the same statute relieves me of all responsibility during my 10 hour breaks (or 8 hours in the sleeper, if I choose to "split.")
So, no offense, but let's not confuse this issue, which is already confused enough, by inducting "hazmat" regulations. Okay with you? :wink:
But, thanks for reading.... and for your participation! BTW..... you DO realize that that guy in the TUTU looks an awful lot LIKE you..... right? :roll: :lol:
Just kidding! Just wondering! :lol: :lol:
#56
Rev.Vassago , 08-04-2008 01:08 AM
Guest
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That is an easy question to answer, although you don't accept said answer. Since your experience is limited, however, I will let it slide.Originally Posted by golfhobo
To "paraphrase," no hazmat hauler is EVER ROD (relieved of duty) and is ALWAYS respnsible for his load. To be HONEST with you, I don't know how they can log off duty time that DOESN'T go against their 70 hours!
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"I" have a card that says I'm Relieved of Duty for so much as a LUNCH hour! And the same statute relieves me of all responsibility during my 10 hour breaks (or 8 hours in the sleeper, if I choose to "split.")
Well, once again you have provided information that is completely incorrect. The "meal stop" provision states nothing about relieving the driver of duty for a 10 hour break. In fact, it specifically states that the break cannot be more than 6 hours, and no less than 30 minutes."I" have a card that says I'm Relieved of Duty for so much as a LUNCH hour! And the same statute relieves me of all responsibility during my 10 hour breaks (or 8 hours in the sleeper, if I choose to "split.")
§398.4 Driving of motor vehicles.
(h) Rest and meal stops. Every carrier shall provide for reasonable rest stops at least once between meal stops. Meal stops shall be made at intervals not to exceed six hours and shall be for a period of not less than 30 minutes duration.
#57
Quote:
§398.4 Driving of motor vehicles.
(h) Rest and meal stops. Every carrier shall provide for reasonable rest stops at least once between meal stops. Meal stops shall be made at intervals not to exceed six hours and shall be for a period of not less than 30 minutes duration.
:lol: :lol: Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Well, once again you have provided information that is completely incorrect. The "meal stop" provision states nothing about relieving the driver of duty for a 10 hour break. In fact, it specifically states that the break cannot be more than 6 hours, and no less than 30 minutes.§398.4 Driving of motor vehicles.
(h) Rest and meal stops. Every carrier shall provide for reasonable rest stops at least once between meal stops. Meal stops shall be made at intervals not to exceed six hours and shall be for a period of not less than 30 minutes duration.
Nice try, Rev! Are you intentionaly trying to confuse everyone by referencing the regs on transportation of MIGRANT workers?? And, no surprise.... you even interpret THAT reg incorrectly!
:roll: :roll:
#58
Rev.Vassago , 08-04-2008 03:47 AM
Guest
Quote:
Nice try, Rev! Are you intentionaly trying to confuse everyone by referencing the regs on transportation of MIGRANT workers?? And, no surprise.... you even interpret THAT reg incorrectly!
:roll: :roll:
You truly are clueless. Wait another 5 years, you might have half an idea of what you are talking about.Originally Posted by golfhobo
:lol: :lol: Nice try, Rev! Are you intentionaly trying to confuse everyone by referencing the regs on transportation of MIGRANT workers?? And, no surprise.... you even interpret THAT reg incorrectly!
:roll: :roll:
#59
Just to show what swift's letter of relief of duty looks like:
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This letter authorizes our driver, _______________________________ to be Off-Duty during meal and other routine stops.
The purpose of the Federal Department of Transportation Hours of Service Regulations (part 395) is to keep tired drivers from operating vehicles. Under certain circumstances, however, it appears that in routine stops for meals or other routine purposes may serve to lessen a driver's fatigue.
Therefore, this letter is authorization for you to record your meal or other routine stops on your logs as Off-Duty, rather than On-Duty Not Driving as would normally be the case. However, this may be done only under all of the following circumstances.
1. Your vehicle must be parked in a safe and secure manner so as to prevent obstruction of traffic and theft or damage to the vehicle and cargo.
2. The off-duty period must be no less then 15 minutes and no longer than 15 hours.
3. During the off-duty period, you are relieved from responsibility from your vehicle and cargo.
4. During the off-duty period, you are free to leave the premises on which your vehicle is parked and to pursue activities of your choosing, as long as your ability to safely operate your vehicle is not impaired as required by part 392, "Driving of Vehicles", of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
This letter authorizes our driver, _______________________________ to be Off-Duty during meal and other routine stops.
The purpose of the Federal Department of Transportation Hours of Service Regulations (part 395) is to keep tired drivers from operating vehicles. Under certain circumstances, however, it appears that in routine stops for meals or other routine purposes may serve to lessen a driver's fatigue.
Therefore, this letter is authorization for you to record your meal or other routine stops on your logs as Off-Duty, rather than On-Duty Not Driving as would normally be the case. However, this may be done only under all of the following circumstances.
1. Your vehicle must be parked in a safe and secure manner so as to prevent obstruction of traffic and theft or damage to the vehicle and cargo.
2. The off-duty period must be no less then 15 minutes and no longer than 15 hours.
3. During the off-duty period, you are relieved from responsibility from your vehicle and cargo.
4. During the off-duty period, you are free to leave the premises on which your vehicle is parked and to pursue activities of your choosing, as long as your ability to safely operate your vehicle is not impaired as required by part 392, "Driving of Vehicles", of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.
#60
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That's rich! You post an irrelevant regulation..... then misinterpret it...... then call ME clueless! Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago
Quote:
Nice try, Rev! Are you intentionaly trying to confuse everyone by referencing the regs on transportation of MIGRANT workers?? And, no surprise.... you even interpret THAT reg incorrectly!
:roll: :roll:
You truly are clueless. Wait another 5 years, you might have half an idea of what you are talking about.
Originally Posted by golfhobo
:lol: :lol: Nice try, Rev! Are you intentionaly trying to confuse everyone by referencing the regs on transportation of MIGRANT workers?? And, no surprise.... you even interpret THAT reg incorrectly!
:roll: :roll:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:roll:
