I Really Like To Know
 

I just started driving for myself. Got my authority and tractor - trailer. My wife has been booking my loads. She does a great job. I wanted to know what a reasonable rate would be on a 12OO mile dry van, no touch, 1 pick 1 drop trip? Lets say for the purpose of this scenario, its soda pop.

I hear a lot of guys saying not to take cheap freight and that makes complete sense believe me!! However, it seems a little tough to get the good paying loads. We seem to be getting a lot of brokers who offer 1.25 per mile, and these brokers act like if you ask for anything higher than that your asking them for their right arm. I truly think that's an insult. We do get loads that pay about 1.90 a mile and that seems like a very reasonable rate. Please help here. Any advice on what to ask for?

Thank you AGAIN!!!:confused::confused::confused:

BL, I wouldn't haul anything for less than $1.75 and thats still cheap to me, but that would be my break even point. If I cant find that then Im staying put. Brokers are making a killing out here and the drivers are suffering. Brokers can afford to pay this rate, but most are pocketing the excess. What we need to do is figure out a way to confirm what the broker is getting paid for these loads. No way in hell the drivers should make less than the brokers.

Every load is a negotiation, BL. Rates vary from one region of the country to another. Van loads are typically on the lower end of the rates, but I have a friend who has been doing well on his rates this year. He has hauled quite a few for well over $2/mile. One advantage you have pulling a van is the accessibility of freight. You can usually find a load going somewhere. If you want better rates you may need to consider either staying out of certain areas or plan on deadheading out of a bad area to get to the better paying freight. There are some who think that rate averaging is the best way to go. For instance, they may get a load going into one area for $2.25 and take one coming out for $1.25. That would give you an average rate of about $1.70.

Some of the loadboards have a part of the service that will show you average rates coming out or going into certain areas. That would give you a base to check. Keep in mind that the rates are only for those who report to the service. It might provide some guidance for you. I would shoot for $2/mile and try to average around $1.70 for all miles.

Hi Tobytob! Thank you for your reply. I agree with you 100%. I really can not believe how much the brokers pocket off the backs of hard working drivers. It seems as if they could care less. I wish that there was a load board that actually had requirements like: Shippers and brokers may not post loads for less than ____! I think its only fair to be up front with the pricing. Drivers are not out there for a vacation. Many drivers like myself have been in this business for many,many years. I have seen its ups and downs. I really don't know where these brokers get their nerve. And, its truly something a person can not understand until they run for themselves. . .

Thanks again.....

Thank you GMan. As usual I find you make a great deal on sense. Thank you again.

No offense, but how do you know that, if you have no idea, what it really should pay?

I'm in the same boat BL. I've been sitting all week looking for something decent. Since I started finding my own loads at the end of August I've been able to do well getting out of Baltimore, but my lucks run out. Things have slowed big time, manufacturing is down and it shows. I've been offered 1.25 to 1.35 a lot this week and they're not budging on the rate. Next thing you know it's off the board.

If I can't find something today I'm deadheading out Sunday or Monday and will have to stay out for a while I guess. I just can't make myself take a load that doesn't pay fair. It's not just brokers it's the shippers as well. Actually no that's wrong, it's the carriers that are taking the loads that are ultimately to blame. Brokers/Shippers are just taking advantage of the situation.

Hi Rosty. I believe you're right!! Thank you for the contribution.

No need to feel embarrassed, shyykatt. Feel free to me with any questions and I will do my best to answer them.

RostyC you are 100% correct about the Baltimore area I also live in Bmore this week was I think was worst I saw some loads on the board as low as 0.88cpm and they were gone within minutes.

If some of these people want to take a load for $.88/mile then they can have it, as far as I am concerned. The way that I feel about is that I can go broke sitting at home. I WON'T go broke hauling freight for less than it costs me to operate and have a decent profit.

I know, I can't believe guys are taking this stuff. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm waiting to hear back on one now but I'm not holding my breath.

Same ol same.... Ever heard about "supply and demand"? You can't expect a uniform rate from, OH, or MD, or IN and NJ.... $1.25-1.35 is a good rate from a Baltimore, if you are going to Midwest! Yeah, occasionally, you could get lucky, but building your strategy on that, and wasting days at a time for a few bucks more, is unreasonable, to say at least! But what you can do, it is not to go into that area for less than it would take to compensate for dead heading out, or take that "buck a mile" freight back. It's the matter of simple math. One size, doesn't fit all!

When I go into areas like that where I know freight is sparse or cheap I plan on dropping my load and then deadhead out to an area where I can get a decent rate. I just make sure that I am compensated sufficiently going in that I can afford to deadhead and still make a decent profit. Occasionally, I get lucky and score something with a decent rate our of some of these places. I don't count on getting a load when I get to an area like Philadelphia or Baltimore. I have gotten fairly decent rates out of Baltimore (on occasion), but don't count on it. When you get to those areas it is usually best to make a decision to either take something cheap to get to a better area or deadhead to the better area. I think most will take a cheap load to keep from spending the money on fuel out of pocket. I figure that I would rather deadhead than take a load where everyone but me makes money. There are some who disagree with my philosophy, but it works for me. The only reason we have rates that cheap is because some carriers are taking them. If everyone stopped taking the cheap freight rates would come up. You can't blame the shipper, nor can you blame the broker for the cheap rates. Both are doing what they feel is their best interests. What I don't understand is why so many carriers would continue taking loads where they lose money. All it does is perpetuate the cheap rates.

If they are on the Landstar Board, then the .88cpm loads are gobbled up by Swift, Schneider, Werner, JB and so on..... they make money on these loads from LS seeing they pay the driver .36cpm on a good day, and they also usually have good set rates. Even tho it says .88 to a BCO, most of the companies get 1.00-1.25 set rate.

My ex was worked for a broker who was a LS Agent, I know the game inside and out.... but even when I was a BCo she couldn't always get me great loads either.

I personally dont think 1.25-1.35 is a good rate from Baltimore because I avg a better out of Baltimore It just seems like for about the last 2 weeks rates have been wayyyy down.

It isn't just the big carriers that are taking the cheap loads. There are many small carriers who are taking these loads. They are terrified to sit for a day or deadhead out of a bad area.

I'm glad you chimed in Solo, you got me to think about a few things, and I discussed them with my wife last night. Yes, I understand supply and demand and in this business it can change daily. I don't understand business owners who take jobs (loads) so cheap that it yields them nothing. However, I can't control what others will work for.

It's not that I'm building a strategy on luck it's that I've negotiated wayyyy more than a 1.25 so far, so to settle for it now....... No not me, I won't contribute to the problem because it's the norm and others do it. I understand the theory of "averaging the round" (cheap load out good paying load back) I get it. I just don't like it. Years ago, a guy that I subcontracted some work from told me that every job should stand on it's own, you shouldn't rob from one job to give to another, and I firmly believe that.

I do feel a little foolish for sitting all week thinking that tomorrow I'll get something decent. It's unreasonable to say the least, however it's easy to deadhead out of a bad area when you're on the road,it's much harder to leave the house with an empty trailer, I might have to get used to it for a while though.

Sometimes I don't think people will negotiate a strong rate going into bad areas. A couple weeks ago I had a broker call me to price out a load going from Baltimore to Vermont with a stop in CT. The final drop in Vermont was way out there man, way in the sticks. I called back and gave her my price (2600.00), she had another price of 2000.00. She said she had covered this load but needed the prices to take back to her customer and that she would keep me in mind. I asked what she covered the load for......... 1200.00 bucks. What an idiot. He doesn't even understand how to price himself according to the area he's going. My guess is he was going home, and he went home cheap.

This is all (relatively) new to me and a learning process as well so I take what I learned this week and move on.

It's nice to have some one from this area on the board, we can compare notes. Stick around for a while.

I agree with the 1.25 stuff and I thought about posting the rates that I've been able to get out of here with in my previous post, but I'd probably be called a liar, so I decided against the idea.
In the past posting numbers usually started fights around here, and I'm not one to make trouble. :lol: (shutup mackman :pissedoff: :lol:)

What type of trailer do you operate?

No, you can't. And unfortunately, neither do i, or anybody else. But still you have to compete with this folks. Put yourself in a broker, or shipper position. Would you pay more, if you could move it for less? Yes, some still believe in a good princip, - You got what you paid for. But in todays weak(i don't care, what anybody else say about recovery) economy, cost is a deciding factor! Got to survive, to see a better days. Trucking industry, especially O/O sector, overwhelmed with "wannabe", and people who has no idea, what are they doing. Hell, they can't even do a simple math, and even if they can, couldn't get the right numbers. Don't get me wrong, i'm not pitching to haul cheap. Just being reasonable, and knowing current market price.

Everybody has different expenses so what's cheap for one may be good for someone else. One size does not fit all.

That's a hard question to answer when I'm not in that position but I see what you're getting at and I agree with you. However, if I had a reliable vendor I would continue to use his service over saving a few bucks. When you have a good business relationship with a vendor/customer you could sit down and discuss short term cuts in rates and work together to get through the hard times. If one party doesn't wish to be a little flexible then it's time to look at other options. That's how I would approach the situation. I don't think we see enough of that attitude in todays business environment.


I know you're not. I've read enough of your posts to know better than that.

That's how it suppose to be!
Thanks for the confidence! I stick to my princips, but trying to be flexible, as much as i can, without hurting it.

I wanna share this some of you may know this some may not i have a good freind thats been a broker for about 20yrs and this is what he does no matter what price he got from the shipper which by the way no broker bids on a lane for under 4.00pm he'll post it for 1.25pm -1.35pm and keep the rest now with that being said is it fair what he's doing no but this buisness and you cant knock the hustle. Because like he says all brokers now that their is a o/o out that doesnt know what he's doing and will take the load.

dry van for right now

I doubt that all brokers bid $4/mile on every lane. There is too much competition. There are a lot of inexperienced brokers out here as well as inexperienced owner operators. I have had a few calls this past year from some of them. It is pretty easy to spot a broker who is new just as it is an owner operator who hasn't been in the business very long. There are some brokers who try to take advantage of carriers and owner operators, but there are also some who are fair. I would not throw all of them into the same pot.

On the other hand there are owner operators who don't know what they are doing and think that if they can average $1.20/mile that they are making money. They haven't a clue as to what it takes to run their business, nor do they know how to price their service. It is these people who really cause problems with rates in some of these areas.

I never knock a broker for whatever rate they’re offering. The decision is mine as to whether or not I’ll take the load. I have taken some loads for less than I’d like from brokers I had not done business with before, but I did so explaining to them that I was taking that first the load for less than I might normally because I understand that they have no way of knowing whether or not they can depend on me. I also explain that after I show that I am dependable on this one load, that I will expect a better rate next time. You can’t do this with the mega brokers (Total Quality Logistics comes to mind… they are true low-ballers) in my experience, but the smaller ones have generally respected my stance and I get a lot of calls from brokers we’ve worked with in the past offering decent rates.

Put yourself in the broker’s position. You have some guy call you on a load that you’ve never done business with before and you then give this guy a load that your own reputation depends on and then have to go home at the end of the day and hope and pray that the guy doesn’t screw up your account while you’re home sleeping. There are some really, really bad driver’s / wannabe owner operators out there and knowing what I know about them I don’t know if I could be a broker because I’d never sleep at night.

The other portion of what determines rates is, and I know it’s so overstated that it’s become cliché, is that it IS supply and demand. Right now there are way more trucks fighting over way too few loads. Some of you on this board have been around long enough to remember when it was way too many loads and way too few trucks. What happened to rates then? They were much higher, right? Everything is cyclical. The key is being able to survive through the lean times so that when the good times finally show up, you can get your share.

Every time I see a new post from somebody on here about just getting their authority, I cringe. Why in the world anybody would decide to make a jump into independency when the business is at an all time low just baffles the hell out of me.

That reminds me of the final component to the rate crisis… there seems to be a big influx of folks into this business (many from places far, far away) who think that if they can pay for their fuel and have a little left over at the end of the week then they are doing just great. These are people who had nothing at one time and now they are rolling down the highway in a truck across what used to be the greatest country in the world, and don’t have to worry about being able to eat anymore because they have money now. When you do not have a mortgage (or rent for that matter) and you don’t realize that you need to be saving money back for that big repair that will inevitably happen, you don’t need $2 a mile to have a little change in your pocket.

Someone is either blowing a whole lotta smoke or you're talking about very specific lanes. A couple hundred miles bouncing around the NE might command those rates...though I doubt that's the norm.

yes your write not all but 95% do and yes their is competition but unlike truckers BROKERS STICK TOGETHER and all of the ones that have been around for a long time know each other the give each other accounts they pass info around this is where the GOOD money is being made before it gets to the truck because the truck is the last one to paid if you dealing with a broker.

you can get a good rate know matter where you go its all about who you know one thing iv'e learned is you have to have GOOD contacts in the industry over all not just knowing alot brokers.

I have spoken to a lot of shippers. Most are not being asked $4/mile for most loads. There are too many who are willing to haul for $2/mile or less. You are right in that most of the large brokers know one another. There is a lot of double brokering going on. Some now call it "co-brokering." Schneider is one who works with other brokers to move freight. Schneider gets the freight and then gives those loads to other brokers. I am sure there are others who are doing the same thing. If the load is being double brokered then in all likelihood 40% of the rate has already been given up to brokers before the truck gets a dime. Ironically, I have been offered a higher rate from some loads that Schneider has "co-brokered" than I have been offered from dealing with Schneider directly on the same load. It is a strange relationship.

Gman I have alot respect for you really know stuff and if you talk directly to shippers you know this where the real money is being made but now days shippers just mail bid packages to major carriers or the brokers and wait to see who will move forIT the cheapest rate and I know you guys dont think brokers or major carriers get 4.00pm but they do and some get up to 6.00pm and I know this for FACT and your write gman double brokering is a BIG problem write now but the carriers who are doing pay the best rate because they got GOOD rate from the shipper and dont have to run their truck to make a profit off it.

I'll explain it to you like this, Most drivers are looking to better their situation. So in turn running under Their own authority is the way to go. It's considered the highest form of trucking. Its suppose to pay the best and provide the most flexibility in their lifestyle. Some are looking for a return on their investment, While others are looking to get rich. But most people are looking to make a decent living with out the hassle from a Big brother carrier.

Its my opinion, which was stated here by someone that not all drivers have the same situation @ home. $.88 CPM might be good to one driver while $2.00pm is good to another driver. We can all agree that rates are low. I believe in setting a minimum wage. Every other industry has one except trucking. At times I see freight on boards for less than .$67cpm. Now this is mind boggling to me. Who in the heck can make a profit or break even like that.

I have pondered over getting my own authority @ times. Is it worth the hassle when shippers and receivers don't respect the drivers. They look down upon this industry as if it an inconvenience to them. I have access to several boards, my cousin runs his own authority and at times I will help him search for loads. It baffles me to see the prices that these brokers will post, knowing good and well that someone will bite on it just to get home. The Idea of taking a load that will just pay for fuel is mind boggling. (No offense to those drivers who do it). I'm in business to make a profit on each and every run, not settle for fuel money just to get out of an area. it this mindset that will keep the rates right were they are.

Right, and the time to step up to a higher level of difficulty is when the economy is at its worst in recent history? My point is that when trying something new for the first time, EVERYBODY, including me, makes mistakes. When the economy is better and rates are higher, there is a much increased margin for error. If you are running for $1.20 a mile, you don't have much room to screw something up becuse it might bankrupt you. If you have been averaging $2 a mile, you should have money set aside for mistakes.

I'll add this to you're post G. In the second scenario it's a heck of a lot less wear on the truck. I don't care what area I'm in I'm not putting 45000 lbs on the trailer for a buck a mile. Just deadhead out.

Not only saving the wear and tear but by deadheading you'll be "footloose and fancy free" to take a good load where ever you find it.....even on the way to where you hoped to get to with the dead head. You'd hate to have a $1/mile freight on and have to drive by a good load or... lose on the load by missing the p/u time due to having to unload that $1 freight.

I am not going to put something on my truck for $1/mile, either. That is unless it is a partial. I prefer to deadhead out of an area rather than put something that will only pay for my fuel. I have had a couple of people who don't think that I know what I am doing in having that attitude. They feel that it is better to have something on the truck, even if it only covers fuel. I suppose that I am just too stubborn to haul something that others can make a profit on without me getting something out of the deal. I feel that noone makes money without the truck. Neither the shipper, broker or consignee can make money without the truck. Think about that for a minute. If the truck is such an integral part of industry then why should we clammer to take a load where everyone else is making money but the truck, yet without the truck everyone goes broke.

good point.............. geez how much would that suck. :cry:



Welcome Back Geo! :thumbsup: