I think that's what the broker was telling me. But I swear the rates that I was getting with this guy I was with was not what he was getting. I think he was getting what I was getting (from CH) PLUS the fsc. He pays his drivers I think 28% and there was no way he was going to be making what he claims to be making (supposedly the same as me) and paying drivers.

For you, FSC is meaningless. You're quoting a flat rate for a load and the broker is doing the same back. The broker isn't getting $1.10+$.40 and offering you just the linehaul. He's getting $1.50 and offering you $1.10. When you're working on the spot market you don't need to worry about FSC. Diesel utilizes a surcharge because he's hauling multiple loads for one customer over a period of time. Therefore, if there wasn't a mechanism to account for fuel spikes (like the NW is seeing right now), he could take it in the shorts. But when you're working on an irregular basis it's not something to concern yourself with.

Hopefully you can find something out of the NW, it hasn't been pretty up there lately and last I checked fuel was $3.50+. CA is slow too. If I were in your shoes, I would stay East and try to develop lanes between the SE and the MW. Fuel will be more manageable and the seasons will work in your favor. Xmas trees will be starting out of MI and NC before long. Like Diesel said, they usually pay pretty well even though they can be a PITA.

Remember, with reefer freight, the rules about freight lanes are subject to seasonality. In my experience, West to East usually pays better. However, right now the West is pretty dead. When apples are in season rates usually jump in the NW. This year the rails moved in big time and, combined with too many trucks, rates were pathetic.

With a nice second income in the family you can afford to be picky. You're trying to establish that reputation as someone who delivers quality service and is worth the extra $. That's great. Just make sure your actions reflect that. When you tell a broker you won't haul for cheap and then take a reefer load for $1.30...let's just say those are who the brokers like to deal with. Take advantage of the fact that you don't have to turn the wheels at all costs. You'll learn a lot sitting back and observing freight movements. Besides, holding out for a good rate gives you lots of opportunity to hone those negotiating skills.

And one last note, refrigerated is refrigerated. The fact that you can run it on cycle shouldn't matter when it comes to quoting your rate. They need temp controlled equipment you should charge one temp controlled rate. If it turns out that it doesn't cost quite as much as you quoted...you can always offer a rebate :lol:


Good luck. Make it through the next 6 months and the rest will seem like a cakewalk.

Hey no_worries thanks! I thought you were on vacation or something :D.
You see I don't know anything. I didn't know the West was dead. I just put in my destination (before I called) Kent, WA and saw lots of loads.

What do you think of that rate to go out west for a dry load that I got? $3100 for 2200 miles? I tell you going with this guy really screwed me up. You know I knew this guy to run a tight operation then all of a sudden he is telling me $1.30 is good right now. Those bastards brought me into Florida for $1.48 from NC. I wanted to tell the broker (at CH) who is in charge of SE Produce to take a flying *** but I kept quiet as this was this guy's contact and once I get going it can get ugly. So I just kept quiet.

But enough was enough and I left a load of citrus which was supposedly a new customer for them sitting right where it, well I never even went to get it, I told them I wouldn't haul it and that was the end of that broker and deadheaded out of Florida.

So now here I am with a truck and a trailer trying to figure all of this out. I have picked up bad habits from this guy, that is to just keep the truck moving. As you noted I can sit and wait, but for some reason the thought of it makes me nervous.

Yes you are right, saying no enough times will definitely hone the negotiating skills.

I'm not sure that the broker isn't not getting the FSC. I picked up a load for TQL and for some reason I got the paperwork of the rate between them and the shipper and it had it broke down to FSC plus the linehaul. I squeezed him good and he said the customer wouldn't pay more (it was about $1.70 a mile and sure enough what he quoted me was what was on the paper; but there was a seperate line for the FSC).

Anyway thanks for your help no_worries. Aren't you running still by the way?

Please be encouraged by what N_W is saying here. It may not happen over night now that you're truly on your own, but it will happen b/c you are asking questions and working at this thing. You have a brand new reefer to pay for, but you have double the freight available than if you had gotten a van.

There are thousands of ordinary guys out there making it and there is no reason that you will not become one of them. Keep doing your best and ride out this learning curve.

Thanks a lot Person. Yes I do plenty of asking questions. Every where I go I'm usually fascinated and asking something. Last weekend it was the bulk mail proecessing centers. Then the other day, I had to pick up in Lenexa, Ks. The lady was telling me something about going into the cave when she was giving me directions. I figure it was some nickname or something for the place.

Man the WHOLE place was underground and one big giant cave. I couldn't believe it. There were multiple companies and the docks for these big 53' trucks were set in the walls of these caves with multiple turns and bends. I was so fascinated and usually these people who are loading trucks and have thankless jobs are usually pretty happy to be have someone pay attention to them and they start explaining stuff.

Has anyone been in one of these caves? The guy was telling me it was an old quarry and that there are even bigger ones.

But I digress. Thanks again Person. You are right, there are many people making this work so I don't see why I can't. Hell I was in S.C. at a shop talking with the mechanic who was telling me that he did OTR for 6 years but could never get a truck and I was able to do it after just 6 months and I don't mean that as a boastful statement at all but sometimes at moments like that I just start "man I got this far this fast, I can keep pushing."

Thanks again for your comments.

I'm not going to badmouth your load out to WA. If you're happy you're happy. Normally, it's not a bad rate, a little lower than I would take if things were hopping in WA but not too much. However, things aren't hopping and fuel is brutal on that run. This time of year wind can kill your mileage in a hurry on that lane too. But these are all things you learn best by experiencing, so it's all good. I would think you can expect to get a load out of WA for right around that same rate without too much trouble. I see there's even a load to MA right now for $5500. I haven't seen a load for that rate in weeks up there posted on the boards. Make sure you're checking fuel prices on your route daily as you head up there, they've been changing fast along 90. If you get unloaded by mid-afternoon haul ass to the Flying J in Tacoma. The only parking for 30 miles and the cheapest TS fuel in WA usually. Remember, chains are required in WA now.

Haven't been on vacation, actually working again :lol: We haven't worked much this year, time to put a few miles on :shock:

My point about the FSC is that it doesn't matter whether the broker is getting that as part of the rate or not. When it comes right down to it, the broker gets $X to move a load and pays you $Y. What makes up X and Y is irrelevant. Could be FSC, drops, temp control premium, expedite, nice day premium...whatever. The bottom line is all that matters. When you ask for fuel as you did, you expose your inexperience to the broker, since your quoted rate should be enough to cover your fuel costs. Of course, it's ok to ask about a FSC in order to make a point about a low rate 8)

Actually, after looking a little closer, rates look like they've come up a bit in WA. I've been up there 3 times in the last couple of weeks and they're better than I've seen. Make sure you take a look at the boards each day during business hours. You might be able to book something ahead of time. The good brokers don't wait until the last minute trying to squeeze every dime out of a load. Good luck.

Not too bad on the rate... a good learning experience. When booking loads or negotiating rates w/ a broker remember that you can always come down on your price, but you can never go back up. Also remember you have got nothing to lose when negotiating the load, there are always others out there. Try not to buy any fuel in WA if possible.

You're right about why I asked about the fuel. These rates are so low one would think it's not including fuel surcharge. But I did want to point out to them the price of fuel. I think it's just a number to these people sitting around at a desk but as we all know this is a real number and I feel they need to be reminded of that all the time. There is now way with fuel the way it is now to be hauling a reefer load for $1.19 to California.

You're also right about the relevance of the FSC. Actually I don't care what they make. On that particular load I was happy with the rate I got so that truly is the key. And you are right that you don't have to haul cheap and service counts because that was the highest paying load I got yet and when it was over they told me it was an absolute pleasure working with me and if I'm in that area again to call. (They love these check calls.)

Actually what I liked about this load was when I put in the destination (kent) I saw multiple loads going to Miami and as most don't want to go to Miami I'm hoping to get one right to there. Of course I won't ask for it and I'll give the whole speach on how I can't get out of there etc.

I have to go buy chains? What is it from October or so on? I don't even have a hat with me. Man I hate the cold.

I don't know how you do teams, I couldn't handle that, that's for sure. Speaking of teams, what do you think about flowers? The guy I was with said they pay too cheap but he proved to be a fabricator. I would like to find a steady stream of a product in Florida. My wife is actually Ecuadorian and I keep nagging her to get on the phone and find something out down there. When I was with the company, a girl came to my house as a guest and it turned out she worked for a logistics company down there and was here on business. I started with the questions but I didn't want to be rude. I am trying to get back in touch with her now.

I know LCT (the company I was with) did flowers but it was mostly the team trucks. Any thoughts on that?

Chains required on truck for WA Nov 1st. ( they will check )

Ok now here I have been debating with myself (good thing I'm on a trucker website where people are by themselves in a truck 24hrs a day so this comment is normal) on whether I should pre-book or not. I got to thinking that as GMAN points out when they HAVE to move the load that's when they will pay. So I figured that I was going to be in Michigan and there is a lot of loads here I would wait til I got here (though monitoring the boards enroute.). But I guess this stragedy amounts to trying to hit a homerun every time.

I only have a few days on the phone but it seemed like if they have time they can wait for a better rate or maybe that was just my impression. How else would they offer $1.19 to go to California from Michigan? I like what Big Diesel said about able to come down but never able to go up after. I'm not going to lie as it is right now I'm afraid to wait but I will get myself out of that.

I also came to the conclusion that when I get a general idea of what's a good area and when I won't have to sit by the computer when I talk to these people then I can post it and start driving. As it is now they tell me the destination and I put it on the load board to see how much is in the area and how far I have to deadhead to get a load. Like I said it wasn't two minutes posted this morning and they started calling.

I need to buy a Verizon aircard cause Cingular doesn't work in Montana and Idaho etc. I'm sure it works in WA.

One final question, when I call I usually ask what they have on a load. What is the general consensus on that? For instance on the couple of real cheap ones I asked about I told them I couldn't do it for that and then they asked what I needed and when I said what I needed they said no and I politely said thank you and hung up. I guess it makes no sense to say what do they have on something cause they are always going to say a low ball figure. I think I need to take a couple of psychology classes

Where is the cheapest place to buy them? I noticed that on purchases at some fuel desks they are coded as gas station purchases, so I'm getting 5% back for scaling out etc.

Colorado has recently changed their chain laws. If you run there you need to have chains on the truck. Fines are stiff. Don't be afraid to sit for a day to get a better rate. Sometimes the wait can be worth it. I see no need to haul a load which only buys fuel or pays expenses. Unless a load is profitable, I don't haul it, even if I have to deadhead out of the area. That is the only way rates will go up. If enough people decide to run their trucks like a business and refuse to haul for cheap rates, then rates will go up for everyone. I spoke to a broker the other day who had a load for less than I would haul it. The broker told me that the shipper had several loads at that rate and moved one of them. At that point he knows that the loads will move at the cheap rate so he will not go up. Of course, when it sits long enough he will go up because he MUST move his freight to stay in business. I don't think most truckers realize that they are more in control of the rates than they think. You allow the brokers and shippers to dictate the price you charge. Remember you are in business. The carrier is the one who dictates what rates are. If they refuse to haul cheap freight then the rate goes up. If they haul cheap then they remain low. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but I don't know how anyone can afford to haul freight for $1.30/mile. All you are doing is turning dollars. If you are running your own authority you should be averaging well above $1.50/mile. You need to understand that profitability is not limited to buying fuel. There is maintenance, tires, oil changes, plus equipment payments to consider.

you are probably better off just running Atlanta to Fla for the winter
or even fla -ny/nj/ma
than trying to conquer the great northwest
its the same difference


then in spring
you will know the big players
in Fla produce and plants
and make some money
btw .....nevermind

Merrick, I have a Verizon card and it has worked in every state I've been in including Montana and Idaho. Verizon has deals with other cell providers even when Verizon does not support the area your in. Sometimes your no better than a 33k modem but at least your connected to the world.

Welcome to the real world of getting loads. Sitting another day, I say you can sit till your blue in the face and another carrier will take the load. There is NO negotiating, you either take it, make an offer, get turned down and they will hang up on you so fast and go on to another truck in the area.

I hear, "I won't move my truck for less than this". Well, you truck must be rusting in the same spot a month later.

How about it you big talkers. Put your money where your mouths are and get Merrick a $1.80 load right now!!!!

And the silence is deafening......................................... .......

Honestly Steve there were $1.80 even more loads that I turned down for short trips. My scheduled appmt time to empty yesterday was at 3:30pm so I wasn't sure when I could actually be empty (I got done about 2pm) so I was looking at possibly not getting a load til today and Finishing Friday on a short run to NC or GA and possibly sitting for the weekend.

So I took this one at a cheaper rate because from what I understand (maybe I'm wrong), as nobody wants to go into Florida, I'll take one from Wa to Miami. I just did one from Idaho to Florida which paid about $1.60. And it only was that cheap as I deadheaded to there from Montana. Out on my own, I am trying to not kill the rate with deadheading.


So I"m covered for the weekend and am hoping to get more than $5000 on a trip home.

Now I could be wrong and those that know could be rollling their eyes at the stupidity of the new guy and I always welcome crititcal comments, but that's how I ended up on this trip.

Sounds like a challenge. Set up to do Canada yet? I think you've about mastered the world of skateboards.....time to trade for a step?

[quote="SteveBooth"]Merrick, I have a Verizon card and it has worked in every state I've been in including Montana and Idaho. Verizon has deals with other cell providers even when Verizon does not support the area your in. Sometimes your no better than a 33k modem but at least your connected to the world.

Welcome to the real world of getting loads. Sitting another day, I say you can sit till your blue in the face and another carrier will take the load. There is NO negotiating, you either take it, make an offer, get turned down and they will hang up on you so fast and go on to another truck in the area.

I hear, "I won't move my truck for less than this". Well, you truck must be rusting in the same spot a month later.

How about it you big talkers. Put your money where your mouths are and get Merrick a $1.80 load right now!!!!

And the silence is deafening......................................... ...... [quote]

And the one who truly does not know what his cost of operation is, speaks........ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: When you run your truck as a business and not as a " hobby " then you can chime in on rates and profits. Until then......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Steve & whoever else, do keep in mind that yes, somebody will take the load, but the more drivers that are willing to sit and wait, then the broker is going to have a tougher time getting rid of the load. This will stress them out and push them to offer better rates or not take crappy paying loads themselves from shippers. Most company drivers don't have the option to sit, guys like yourself do. That leaves the rate up to the small business owner. The majority of United States is made up of small trucking outfits, not the large carriers as lots would think. Small guys do make a difference.

Well, I disagree with some of that. I have 2 brokers I deal with now, one on the east coast and a carrier in Arizona. They both give me a good rate right off the bat. I've talked to both of them about these situations and if Swift or another mega carrier is in the area they will take the load instead of dead heading out.

I've been stuck 3 times already for over 3 days and if I didn't dead head out or take the load, I would still be there today. On all three occasions I called the next day and sometimes in a few hours and the load was gone. Every time they said someone took it for that rate. In some cases I asked for only a nickel more and they would not budge and never called me back because someone else took it.

I'm not complaining and will still go to those areas. I just don't believe from first hand experience that a better load will come along, period.

Steve, it sounds to me as though you need to hone your negotiating skills. EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE. Some brokers won't go up. Most will, especially if the load needs to move. It is very rare that I have spoken with a broker when they will not go up. Hauling cheap freight is a choice, just like hauling for an acceptable rate. When you buy a car do you pay the sticker price or the first offer? Most of us don't. Of course, the car dealer will love you if you walk in and write him a check for the full purchase price. To me, this is a business. A business must be profitable to be viable. I have been around this business for a lot of years. I would not have been able to do so by hauling cheap freight. There is a lot of talk about the mega carriers. It might surprise you to know that 80% of the freight is hauled by carriers with 20 or fewer trucks. It isn't the major carriers who haul most of the freight, it is the smaller carriers. If 80% of the carriers refused to haul below a certain level, rates would go up. I can't speak for everyone, but I will not haul freight below a certain rate. Rather than haul something that is not profitable, I will sit for a day or deadhead out of the area. That is a choice that I make. It is the right thing to do for my business and profitability. Besides, I don't like encouraging these cheap brokers or shippers. :P

Where to begin :shock: :lol:

Flowers...we used to haul flowers out of Miami. $1.30+FSC+$30/stop. Always went to the NW and usually ended up being about $1.70/mile. Usually 10-12 stops but there was a key to each place because the flowers had to go right into a cooler so we could deliver 24/7. Was a nice gig since you could always get stuff to FL. But it was through a carrier and they started to nickel and dime us on stuff and not pay on time. Finally I said "No more." Tough to give up freight like that, but it wasn't worth the aggravation. So there's a long-winded answer to your question about flowers. They can pay well, especially considering it's Florida freight. Most of it is teams although there is some stuff that goes on solos. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you the name of the company we pulled them for. Things may have changed rate-wise, lots of companies are getting into flowers. I know Prime has moved into it big time and Armellini has alwasy been the big boy on the block. Watch this winter. Leading up to Xmas there is a little bump and then the 2-3 weeks before Valentine's there's a huge rush. Great rates coming out of FL then.

GMAN was right about most brokers holding out on the rate until it HAS to go. However, there are brokers out there who don't have to squeeze their freight until it screams. These guys get the freight out the door and move on to the next one. They don't want to have to hassle with trying to move the same load all week long for a couple hundred extra bucks. These guys will offer freight days before it has to go and for a decent rate. Unfortunately, most of this freight doesn't hit the boards because these guys don't have trouble finding trucks. But once in awhile they get stuck and can't find a truck right away. I always check the boards at least once each day while we're heading somewhere. Every once in awhile we luck out and are able to book something early. If I can book something 2 days early and have it waiting for me when I unload, that's worth an extra dime a mile to me. So, while 90% of my freight is booked on arrival, it's still worth it to check everyday once you know where you're heading. You never know what might pop up.

Everybody handles their phone calls a little differently. I cycle through all my questions regarding locations, commodity, weight, etc. If by this time they haven't asked for or offered a rate, I'll ask, "And what are they giving you guys on this one?" If they give me a rate and it's close, I'll usually say that it sounds like it's in the neighborhood but I need to verify a few things and I'll call them back in 5 minutes. I break everything down and call back with a counter...that's about the extent of my negotiating. If they offer a load that's a good rate, I don't dicker. I say that's fair and accept. If they offer a low-ball rate I say, "Sorry, that won't work for us." Often they ask what it would take and I tell them, "Really, you guys aren't even in the neighborhood so I won't waste your time or mine." They may actually have a lot more in it and maybe I'm leaving money on the table, but that makes the offer even more insulting and I don't waste my time.

One more thing, when you call on a load, be sure you have an amount in mind. You need to know if they're in the ballpark with their offer or you need to be able to offer a quote of your own if they ask. If they ask what you'd need and you can't give them a number, you appear not to know your business. There's no excuse for not having something in mind since you've got the basic info before you ever call.

Diesel, you're certainly right about not buying fuel in WA the last couple of weeks, what a spike :shock: However, for a good portion of the summer WA was cheaper than ID or MT if you're coming across 90. Of course that's "true price" ex-tax.

In case you couldn't tell from my long-winded response, I'm back home now :lol:

Big mistake taking this load in not checking fuel prices. I can't believe they are that high in WA. I just figured it out, the very first load I got on my own I did just over 1800 miles ALL miles driven and it averaged out to $1.70 a mile. I have no idea why I took this load for this price. I guess the shock of going out on my own, I panicked.

Anyway, Steve I think it is a blanket statement to say that you can sit and it won't make a difference. In that I mean it obviously depends on where you are. I have now posted myself 3 times. Once in Chicago, once in Michigan and once in Florida. For Chicago and Michigan the phone did not stop. For Florida in probably 8 hours I got ONE call and all he wanted was for me to go from Jacksonville to Deerfied Beach (15 minutes from my house, I was tempted.) with a supposed possible load out of there which was a big fat lie I'm sure.

Obviously in Florida I could have sat there for 3 weeks and not got another penny more. But in the other two I think I could have. I would like you to clarify please on the areas that you sat for 3 days. Where they "good" areas?

On another note, I have often wondered why they call Steve a hobby trucker? I don't mean this negatively against anyone nor do I want to interject myself into an argument but I think that just because someone buys a truck and gets their own authority that that doesn't make them a business owner.

I think, in my opinion, that there is a difference between a businessman such as GMAN and others, and those that are self-employed which is what I think Steve is and probably myself right now.

Just because someone goes and buys a hammer doesn't make them a contractor. I also think we all have different levels of ambition. I personally would like to build a business. I could probably just do what I am doing and live just fine as my wife also works. But I don't want that, I want something else; I want more. I dont think Steve hauls for cheap just to get to another part of the country as a tourist. He's reached his level of comfort and I personally don't see the problem with that. We all have our optimum.

Now that I have been in Meijers up in Michigan and looked into them, I read that they were supposedly the first to come up with the Super store concept. I wonder why they are so big yet never grew out of their region. What's the difference between a Meijer and a Walmart? I guess everything has their own optimum.

As long as somebody is not deliberately ruining the rates (and I doubt one person could do that) just to travel around, then I see no problem that one person would want less then another might want and I don't mean the rate because only a fool, which I don't think Steve is, would not get as much money as they can.

Hey No_Worries thanks for the reply. Actually I think we both posted at the same time, I want to reply but it's late now and I want to get to bed. I'm close to the WI/MN border parked at a McDonalds so I can get my Iced Coffee in the morning. Man you wouldn't believe how much I love those things.

Anyway you made some great points and I will post back manana if I get the internet. Looking at those fuel prices are making me sick :roll: . By the way my IFTA taxes were $33 this quarter so not bad I guess. Enjoy your hometime!

Yup Merrick, I agree and have seen the same as far as sitting and no phone calls at all. I've called and there is no negotiation. This is what it pays and that's that.

I've also been in the good freight areas and my phone rings non stop and I could sit there for a day or 2 and pretty much get whatever I wanted for a load. Some times these brokers don't call and tell me how much it pays but rather how much will it take to get me to move. In an area like that I could make the statement "I won't move for less than $2.00 per mile".

Go to Rock Springs WY and you can bend over. The last time I ended up there I got $2.25 for the trip and it was a long one. When the broker called about a load going there I finally had the experience to say, Rock Springs!!!! That place blows and I'm going to need this much money to go there and I got it. I think I got $1.35 to get out of there so in the end it averaged out to an OK trip.

I could stay in the PA, NY and OH area and run 500 mile trips for $2.00+ but that would surely be the worst job I could imagine. Give me the long runs and open roads and I'm happy for sure.

One more step to add to your pre-quote regimen. Pull up flyingj.com or dieselboss.com and check fuel stops on your route. I look at the stops along a route I'm likely to fuel at then take the most expensive of those and use that as my fuel cost for quoting purposes. That way I'm insulated against any regional differences or spikes during the trip.

Fuel patterns change all the time. For most of the middle of the summer there was an unusual pattern in which the fuel was actually cheaper the further west you went. WA was the best spot to buy coming across 90 and CA was cheapest coming in on 40. AZ was cheaper than NM which was cheaper than TX, etc. That's not a normal pattern. However, a couple of weeks ago things switched around and have gotten back to normal. I did a run from CA to SC and fuel was cheaper or the same in every state moving east with the exception of GA.

I'm not talking pump price but the net cost; pump price minus state tax. That's the true price you pay for your fuel and the only one that should concern you.

Merrick..Just a suggestion..wait until you get to Kent Wa before buying your chains, then buy them at the Utility Trailer dealer there. They are by far, the most resonably priced dealer in the area, and half what you would pay at a truckstop. The shop foreman there will usually get a set of hangers mounted in decent time, if you buy both the chains and the hangers from utility. They will also help you size the chains. Second cheapest would be Husky Truck Center in Tukwila.

Buy the chains in OR and you wont pay any taxes. :wink:

Merrick....I am glad to see you are doing well. I agree with you on the "hobby trucker" thing. Steve is like alot of us and wants to go certian places and see different things so he will work himself to the area he wants to be in. Sometimes rates are crappy in those areas and we have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.

We were just in FL and there was NOTHING coming out for over $1.00 mile so we DH out to Savannah GA and got a load from there to TN now we are looking at some LTL to put on the wagon for the NW. We also like running west and do NOT like being cooped up on the East coast!!

Everyone has their own style and we are all different. I do agree with GMAN and Steve could hone his negotiating skills and that will come in time, I think. I hope he carefully plans his trip to WA cause fuel is a killer out there right now, but if you plan right you can come out OK.

tootie

How about the chains,..which ones work the best,how much$$, and where is a good place to purchase.

You have to drive a truck to need chains.. :lol:

There are two types of O/Os out there.... 1 is a person who runs the operation as a business and the other drives it as a hobby to see the sights etc..... I would hope that potential O/O's do not follow the hobby type of operation as written on this site.....

Get the ones with the cams so you have a lot of slack. Go through a dry run and put them on then trim the unneeded links off with a hacksaw.

I wouldn't worry too much about price. You will wear them out pretty quick and have to buy them wherever your at at the time.

You have to drive a truck to need chains.. :lol:[/quote]

Now that's funny! :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey,....I have a truck,....and I drive it around the block once a week,......now before Fu#4ing Florida freezes,....I need some damn chains,.....I would expect some professional courtesy,....not sarcastic remarks from truck drivers who appear to spend more time online than driving :roll:

Hey I'm local. I have nothing better to do :twisted: :D

i'm home too
why on earth would you want to drive somewhere that requires chains?
you are talking extreme conditions
every daybreak
reveals last nights driving nightmare for some poor driver
not every truck makes it in that chain required neck of the woods
feel lucky?

I'm pretty sure some state require you to actually posses chains even if there isn't any snow yet. Mine are hung on my flatbed. I used U-Joint bolts and had them cut to make hangers. I think I posted a picture of them before.

Thats what I'm looking to do,....I don't plan on driving in conditions that need chains,...but I also don't want some AR DOT cop giving me crap about not having chains.
I grew up on a farm, and let me tell you,..I have had my fill putting chains on a 4wd tractor,....with 8' tall tires.