Merrick are you invoicing or is this guy you are paying doing the invoicing? If he is, then you need to see the invoices, he is getting you okay money at $5400 on 3400 mi but he may be skimming. Not trying to make you paranoid, but his comments make me think he may not be above board. Good Luck.

I am in Manchester all the time.
I had Harrisburg,Manchester and Hanover today
3 1/2 hours to pick up ten skids at Americold
while the big players are dropping and hooking
I hate them
Americold has a lot of warehouses Kraft etc
You die at every one
Same for Atlas Cold Storage
and
Millard

Doghouse after you roll the dice.....go to the church and dump a bunch of holy water in the radiator

Hmmm yeah....kinda disagree its so hit-er-miss tho:

G-man and others had recommended I have my truck dynoed.....I was suprised at the concept, cuz I had hooked many cars up to dynometers when I was in that buisness years ago, (at the school I recieved my 2 year certificate from) and it never occured to me diesel trucks being so much larger and different engineering that they use this tool too......and although the results came out a little different then a cars.....the Info. I could at least somewhat interpret.

1. I knew all my cylinders were firing normally
2. I had some blow-by.......slightly high crankcase pressure, not enough to be panicked about now, but knew I better rebuild it for next year,
but had counted on that anyway seeing the slight drop in oil pressure gauge, from the years of wear.....mines idling around 29psi

Granted best to have the test before you buy, I bought at auction, so had to settle for after, but was worth the peace-of-mind.

Hmm all said n evaluating though im seeing I m defe\initly better at the driving and mechanical end of running this business....I just fiqured if I was honerable with brokers n shippers, they would be honerable back. That was certainly naievity.

I was told by a driver who I work with at another job that LCT was bought out by another company (UM? ? ganddy corp.???)

Already done :wink:

On the Americold theme, it's always one of the first question I ask if it's frozen and I'm not sure of the customers. If I'm going to go to one of their facilities, you can bet there's going to be a detention policy well spelled out in the confirmation. If the broker won't do that (which they often won't when Americold is involved) then there's a serious upcharge. It takes a lot to get me to deal with those guys and their b.s.

I was there again today in Manchester
I hate that place
It has to be really bad for the broker to come up with any detention on the p/u side because he throws the rate in my face
Hey we're paying you xxxx
Where are you going to get xxxx
He wins usually
Did I mention I hate that place?
But its still not as bad as Fishery Products in Peabody
I hate that place too
And I am there all the time
I need my head examined

LTC was bought out a couple years ago by Gainey Transportation.

Say Merrick

I share your same wonder, about what really causes low rates, ok the theory from truck drivers has alwasys been, 'desperate owners running the cheap freight.' and if we all quit running it...rates would go up.

I really thing this is only a small part of the equation though, I think there are deeper market forces at work here.....I have been hearing dont run cheap freight for almost 20 years now...and it hasnt worked.

Really like to dig into this more in the future for sure...sorry if should have posted this on the cheap freight post.

Low rates are basically a result of market forces at work. When capacity goes down (fewer trucks in a particular market) rates go up since there is more competition for the same trucks. When there is more capacity (more trucks) rates go down because brokers know that some will be desperate to get out of an area due to fewer loads for the number of trucks. Until you stop those trucks who are willing to haul the cheap loads, you will not impact rates. Over the years I have seen rates start out low and as the week progresses rates come up until someone takes the load. One thing you need to understand about rates. Shippers MUST move their product. They want to ship it at the lowest rate possible. At some point they will need to pay a higher rate or shut down their production. Unless products are shipped the shipper has no income. Without income his business ceases to function. I know there are many brokers who are taking too large of a piece of the pie, but truckers are all too willing to let them.

One way to get a better rate is to tell the broker or shipper up front that it will take x number of dollars for you to take their load. You need to change the way in which you do business. You need to take the power away from the broker or shipper. They cannot move their product without your truck. I am not talking about gouging them, but getting a fair price for your service. This is a business of negotiation. We all rely on one another for our livelihood.

I didn't know you had so long doing this Pepe. As for wondering things, there is now another thing I'm wondering that is what is the point of these brokers? There is no way I am going to stay at the mercy of these guys. I figure I have two options. One to either find some work with some shippers (I know easier said than done) or find my own stuff to haul.

I know once I can get my foot in the door with a shipper than I'm good. When local the customers I had actually told the company not to send any driver but me. If I was going to be late they said they'd wait and not to send anyone else. I just need my foot in the door.

I think good service is hard to come by for these shippers. I picked up yesterday and they had me initial on the bills by the destination which tells me someone went to the wrong place.


As for now, I know people say that I should go on my own and not have this guy dispatch me but I thought about it and don't think that it's a smart idea. I got a new trailer and reefer unit which wasn't cheap. I NEVER would have gotten this stuff to try and work the boards on my own. That would have been too risky. So now I have plenty of work and money coming in. I came to Florida about 6 years ago without a penny in my pocket and had to start over and I have no intention of doing that again.

I think you'd be smart to stay with this guy for a bit. There's something to be said for stability when you're highly leveraged. Having somebody else handle certain aspects allows you more time to get the other stuff down pat. Then when you move to the next level you've got much less to beome an expert on 8) Just make sure you're mining this guy for as much info as possible. You're a smart guy, you'll be able to separate what's useful from what's not.

When I started, I leased to SNI. I wanted the stability of revenue while I learned about having my own truck. In less than a year the truck was paid off and I was extremely comfortable with the actual running of the truck. Next I leased to a guy who, for 10% would handle the dispatching, invoicing, and obviously the compliance (since it was his authority). He let me use his load boards so, even though he was doing the work, I could search for loads at the same time and learn the process along with the lanes. He took time whenever I wanted to explain everything from rate confirmations, to invoicing, to a multitude of other stuff. In a few months, I was finding the bulk of my loads and he soon let me start handling all of the negotiations. After 8 months it was time to get my own authority. At each step, I learned a certain portion of the business without having to worry about other aspects. When I felt like I'd learned everything I was going to in that situation, I moved to a situation where I had to take on more responsibility. Each step came with a corresponding bump in revenue. While it took about 18 months from buying my truck to getting my own authority, I never once felt overwhelmed. It was a very comfortable progression and I always felt well-prepared.

It's certainly not the only way to go about things. It worked for me and if I had to do it over again, that's how I'd do it. Even if you're not making as much per load as you could, you've got stability and less responsibility. Take advantage of that for all it's worth.

Definitely the way to go like that no_worries. As you said not the only way but I couldn't see doing it any other way. These expenses are starting to add up and without that set income coming in I'd be stressing. I had a slow leak in my trailer (one month old) tire and it was less than in inch from the side so they wouldn't patch it.

Fortunately I called my friend and he has new ones from the trailer he bought. He pulls them off and puts on his own tire (he does the all in one like you mentioned) so he's going to give me a new one for $150.

I have no idea how people start out with limited funds that's for sure. I will say too that while I am under this guy it's a big plus that all loads I run are in my name so I am building a profile with these companies. Working on the list Sonny gave. Just hauled for TQL; like logging in and seeing 100% on time delivery :D


By the way in case anyone is interested, I wrote recently in one of these threads that a friend just leased on on JB Hunt as a lease purchase. Like I mentioned before I never knew anyone first hand to do it. They have some new program where you pay 10 cents a mile and don't have to worry about maintenance. Not that bad if you're in that situation and start that way. He's paying $350 for the truck. Penske charges over $500 a week and the $.10. so it might work out better.

Really watch things with TQL. They're notorious for trying to wriggle out of detention, TONU, unloading, basically anything they can. As you know, those issues come to play in the reefer biz far more often than vans, flats, etc. When dealing with them be especially careful to get everything in writing. Their contract is one of the most lopsided I've ever seen. I've never hauled for them but I almost did a few months ago. Guy calls me and says he needs a team yesterday and I can almost name my own price. I told him "For you guys I give a special rate." We were only a few hundred dollars away, but I don't negotiate with those guys :lol:

Rookie...making rookie mistakes, but fortunatly nothing too serious yet
:-p

In theory this sounds good, but it seems like the brokers have far more tools to use against us if it becomes a competition thing to put things to their advantage...I quess you would disagree and call it a level playing field tho?

You know it finally hit me tonight. What GMAN says is true, especially when he wrote in one of these threads that we can always find shippers but brokers need our trucks. Of course that's right but for some reason it doesn't work like that.

Then tonight I realized what it is that's wrong with that. You take any time in history, even now, and there is always someone smaller, a minority or a king or whatever that controls many others even though the many others might have more power or whatever.

In many cases it is by force, i.e. weapons, fear or whatever but it's also knowledge. These brokers know what the shipper pays. Even Loadit made a comment recently that he use to ask the carriers how much they need and most didn't know. Well there you go, as I was saying earlier in another thread, I want to know what these prices are based on because until then I am ignorant. Those that know always control those that are ignorant.

The oppressors can't rule without the cooperation of the oppressed yet the oppressed cooperate. Maybe this is all too far fetched and maybe I'm being too dramatical but this is how I see it. Sure we have the trucks but the brokers are holding the work .

I don't say this by the way as to justify hauling cheap freight. Mark my words once I figure this out I plan on coming out all right. This is the information age, what these brokers have, with a little dilligence we all can find out and obtain.

You know I tried to talk to as many O/ops before I got my authority....on their attitudes....especially other own authority and their attitude towards brokers.
Almost all viewed it as a struggle or battle...that they really put their game face on when talking about rates to brokers.
This seems a far cry from G-mans attitude that you can find, 'honerable brokers' and find a happy medium....where its a win-win scenario.
You know lately I have realized though I need to just quit dealing as much as I can with the shady ones....and try to stick most with the reputable ones....cant always,,,,but been trying.

To stick with the reputable ones, that was more or less what Sonny said I believe when he wrote that list out; that you don' t have to check credit etc. Honestly most of my loads have been with CH Robinson and I just did one with TQL and I like that I can just log in and see where my money is.

But when I get settled I will as I said find my own shippers or find my own freight. I don't know, keep posting your experiences cause you seem to be honest in how things are going for you. Not bitter or hyping things up or down just telling it like it is.

I've hauled 6 loads for TQL and signed up for direct deposit a few months ago in case you didn't see that Merrick.

No I missed that Steve. The only thing I don't like about them so far though is that you have to mail in the bills. CH Robinson you just scan them and fax them in. I was going to ask if you have worked with them yet, but I remembered that they wanted that whole checklist and stuff. These people can be a pain sometimes. On my load for TQL they kept calling and calling to see where I was.

Henestly I told them I was 150 miles or so away and not 8 minutes later another one calls to see if I'm checked in yet. I asked "what's the matter with you people"? of course I got the old Neuremburg (sp?) defense, "I'm just doing what I'm told to do.

yeah TQL is the hardest to set up with....they dont take pre-set up any more, you must first book a load with them to be set up as a carrier.
That seems unusual compared to most who just want as many , 'pigeons' as possible :-p

IMO, one would be better off borrowing an extra $10K and paying it back to the bank at $.10 a mile.

The more you pull for them the less they call. I usually don't answer my phone when I see it's them calling. Sometimes I tell them I'm in a different state then I really am and it takes them a while to figure out I'm heading in the wrong direction.

Great thread ... I suspect someone is a Capricorn Or a Sagittarian.
Hoping for more info :wink:

I am still locked in to a handful of brokers who seem to be pretty legit
I set up with about 5 new brokers in the last couple of months
That puts me around 20
And I just work with those brokers and their other offices
I very rarely post my truck
But I study the load boards constantly
And get rates
Even on loads already taken
If the rate is good I ask if its a daily shipment or how many a month
Then I try to work that load in to the mix

I know it's been a while but yes I'm still out here. Got a nice PM from Kurbski asking where I was so I figure I'd update this post. The time sure does fly by.

So I was home for a couple of weeks while they replaced the fifth wheel and the A/C Condenser or something like that. I don't know it was all under warranty anyway. I use to love sitting at home but I was getting crazy to get back out. The day I got my truck back my wife went to Argentina for her company and I was going to go with her but decided to get back out. Probably should have went to Argentina.

So right away with the abuse. They have me running mostly for CH Robinson and this broker is running me for dirt. He knows I'm not stupid and I tell people that I am going to figure this stuff out so you would think they would have some more sense. The dispatcher pretty much told me that I don't need them that I can do it on my own. I called my friend and complained again, well more than complained I wanted him to know what was going on. I don't know if I mentioned this before but this dispatcher is a relative of his. That changes everything of course.

Well to make a long story short they send me to Florida at a rate so low that I'm embarrassed to say and then try to send me to New York, the Bronx on an expidited load for $1.34 a mile. First no. Felt good too. Actually I was just about to deadhead out of Florida and never come back in again for so cheap. You know screw me once shame on you....

So they come up with another bs load and I only said yes cause I got to go home for the night and then I would end up in Chicago a good area. I regretted doing that in the end because if we all haul cheap to get home we will be screwing eachother and the business in the end.

So I post my truck on a couple of load boards en route to Chicago and go to bed. I wake up with 8 missed calls. I couldn't believe it they just kept calling and calling. The first one I talked to my mouth was dry and I was nervous. I asked what the load was paying cause that's what I always hear the dispatcher say and she asked me what I needed. Of course they get away with that becuase I've read a high percentage of people don't know what they need. Well I excused myself for the delay, slow computer etc and logged into TruckLoadRate.com and put in the trip and quoted just about the high mark. It should be noted that I've been watching that and have not even come close to getting what that site says I should be getting.

Well she said hold on and then agreed. She called back like 5 minutes later and said the customer had just booked it 5 minutes before. I said no problem. Then I get another call with a load picking up in Michigan and going to Montana with a stop in Nebraska. I told him I was out of the office and would call him back shortly (I was in the Flying J taking a shower). Well to make a long story short I calculated the miles and saw that I would have to deadhead out of Montana to Idaho. I put it in Truckloadrate and it came back with about $2700. But I gave him a whole speech about how I didn't want to go there and I can't get out and blah blah blah and he says the customer wouldn't pay more than $3100.
So I then learned lesson #1: don't hesitate. I told him I would call him right back and I called the dispatcher and ran it by him. When I called back to accept it he had it booked. Again to make a long story short, they called me back a while later and said the carrier backed out.

I was just booking another load when the Montana load called and the dispatcher told me to ask for an extra $50. I'm thinking he sounded mad at paying the $3100 so I was embarrassed to ask but what the hell I did and he said yes.

So in the end I am going to try and do this myself. The abuse has stopped here. You know I was talking to the broker at ch Robinson and I mentioned matter of factly that this has been a bad investment so far and he made the comment that I'm new and it takes time to make money. That was BS. None of these brokers that called me asked how long have I been driving.

I am going to keep the dispatch service though for a while because I can't drive and dispatch myself at the same time. I am going to give him my log in info for truckloadrate and tell him to check that before he offers me another one. If nothing else but to have them take care of swapping the paperwork etc. I was in Tenn. and I couldn't even get a signal so I don't know how people do this on their own.

I like that Truckloadrate for the fuel mapping as well. I bought fuel 2 days ago in Florida for $2.98 with out paying extra for the credit card and then in Tenn yesterday I payed $2.84 I believe it was.

In the end I still havent' figured out all the market forces behind these rates but until I do I will stick with Truckloadrate because at least when they ask me what I need I don't start stammering.

I acutally had a good load planned to go to Arkansas but I want to try and get out to the West Coast. Florida should be kicking in again soon but I'm done hauling for cheap.

Merrick...You really sshouldn't be giving your login information to an internet service you pay for, to a "dispatch service" that should be paying for that same service, itself.

Why do you think you can't dispatch yourself while out on the truck? Plenty do so themselves. Buy yourself a printer for in the truck, and try.

I have all that stuff in the truck but it's not any use if I can't get a signal. Besides I set myself up with RTS I think it was to check credit but if I'm driving I can't stop and check every broker that calls.

As for the log in, I hear you , but it's not like some faceless company. This guy is selling me brand new Michelin tires for $150 a tire I don't care if he lets his dispatcher use the service to run his trucks. Besides they are old school and probably wouldn't use it themselves.

Merrick,

IMO,"what you need", has nothing at all to do with rates in that area. What you need is what you need.

When they ask me what I need, The formula I use is:

[(DH miles to P/U + loaded miles + antcipated DH miles to next P/U) x my cost per mile] + $500/day that I'm under the load.

i.e. on a 500 mile trip with 100 miles DH to p/U and 75 miles DH to next anticipated P/U, I would need:
[(100 + 500 + 75) x $1.70] + $500 = $1650 or $3.30/loaded mile.

Probably would not get that load because my cost per mile is too high for that many dead miles....but you never know.

Rank I understand what your saying but market force still has to come into to it. Take two trucks, one payed off and another with a massive payment all spec'ed out etc, well they "need" different amounts but the market dictates the rate. Now that I think of it, and I am very tired right now and probably not thinking clear, but a Subway sandwhich (which I eat but I hate with a passion) cost close to the same everywhere but imagine the different monthly leases that each store needs to cover.

You know what was strange, I put in dry by accident instead of reefer from Michigan to Montana and dry had a higher rate. I would think a reefer always gets a higher rate.

Also I forgot to mention something else while I was updating the above posts. Right as I got the truck out of the shop I get a letter from the insurance company telling me they are cancelling me. They said as I am hauling produce I am too much of a risk (don't even have 2 years on my license). I called the agent and the owner of the agency got involved and resolved the situation for me. Nice guy too. Almost out of business for a while there.

By the way, I have my new fifth wheel but I still feel some slack when I'm pulling. How much should I be feeling?

:D :D :D

I know Sonny. Still working on that list you gave me. Actually I will call them this week.

By the way, all those brokers I spoke to the other day all asked where I'd like to go. I kept using that line I read around here somewhere "I am more motivated by rate than by geographics" I must say I actually enjoyed it on the phone.

Market forces don't have any bearing on what you need.
They have a bearing on what you will get.

Just follow Mick's advice on this. "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you might get what you NEED".

When you post your truck you may want to post for reefer and van loads. It will offer greater possibilities. The nice thing about a reefer is that you can haul both reefer and dry freight.

You really should establish a minimum haul rate. If the broker or shipper is unwilling or unable to at least meet your minumum rate, then I would pass on their load. I have an average rate that I ALWAYS attempt to get, no matter where I go. If the load goes to Florida, the Northeast or New England, then my rate goes up. It is the carrier who really has the power to get rates up. The broker has no way of making a living without the carrier. The shipper must rely on the carrier to move his products. If either want to move their goods, then they will either need to buy their own trucks or use a carrier. As the carrier it is up to you to set your own rates. If enough owners would establish their minimum haul rate, then things would eventually get better for the industry.

Great point Rank. To be honest I'm not sure what I need. Like GMAN said I need to set a minimum rate but I need to figure out what all of this costs. As I posted previously I play the credit game but it's to the point where I have everything all tangled up. It's all organized in my head but for taxes and stuff I spoke with a Certified Financial Planner who is going to untangle it all for me.

Just to give an example everything but the truck was at 0% but the truck was at 16%. I didn't mind that cause I never planned on keeping the loan for more than a month and I wanted to start building business credit. Well I decided instead of paying down the truck to get rid of PMI while I can on my mortgage as I'm in a bad market and before the value drops (amazingly it hasn't so far [I'm in South Florida]). So I did that and then took out a HELOC at a rate of 8.9% and then payed down half of the truck. Now for the rest I went to Suntrust and got a loan for less then 8.9% (I don't remember the rate off hand) for the balance of the truck. As I only have been in business for 2 months they wanted my wife as a cosigner. So when I get back I will sign those papers. So in a matter of months I will have 3 different ways of financing the truck.

Anyway GMAN just from my one experience dealing with these brokers the other day, I do believe in what you say. I mean what the hell these people aren't going to pay top dollar if we don't at least ask for it. I'm still in learning mode so like I said I am going to try the West Coast if I can get there and maybe stay out there for a bit.

My one big problem has been my lack of mechanical skills but I am slowly finding out how to resolve that. I actually did my first roadside repair. Ok it was only changing the headlight bulb but I did it myself nonetheless. :D

I'm in Iowa right now. I must say the amazement of all of this still hasn't diminished. I'm just a kid from the suburbs of Boston, what the hell am I doing in Iowa? I guess as long as it remains fun I'll be ok (and profitable). You know what they say, find something you like to do and you'll never work a day in your life.

It's not really a B.S. It's kinda like your credit score, the better it gets, the better rates you could expect! Some people, are willing to pay better, for dependable service! 8)

I agree with you Merrick. None of these brokers could give a rats ass how long you've been in business. Even the huge carriers who call me. They could care less just as long as you haul there load.

As far as rates go, you can ask for whatever you want but unless they are desperate they will just move on to the next truck and call them. I've sat before for 3 days saying I wanted .25 cents more per mile than was being offered for pretty much all the loads. Well, I just sat there. Some will tell you they will sit there until a better load comes along. Well, it doesn't in my experience. You can sit there till you rot.

There are no negotiating skills. "Nope, too much, the customer is only willing to pay this, have a nice day driver....CLICK"

Steve,

You would not have to sit for three days if you take the time to go into an area with less trucks and more freight. Just a suggestion. I have never sat and I get the rates asked for. Yes, it might take an extra 1/2 or 1 to research load density but it's worth it. I might turn down 6 loads in a row but the 7th load will be a winner. Eventhough, I post the truck, I still research for loads and will make a call if I see something.

Just my 2 cents......