Engine Brake 1 2 3 what do theses settings mean?
 

Hey all,
The last time I drove was for Stevens, and they didn't have engine brakes. Now I see in my truck a switch that has numbers 1,2,and 3 on it for settings. Can anyone tell me what these numbers mean?

Setting one means only 2 clylinders of engine brakes are on 2 means 4 clyinders are on 3 means they are all on.

So it seems like then if I'm going down a grade at gross then setting 3 would be used, and the other 2 settings are for lesser grades or weights?
Also can they be switched from one to the other without damage?
Going down a grade on 2 and the switching to 3 if there is not enough engine braking for the grade.

This is the one thing I hated about Stevens, they would not even give you info on this brake system because (as the story goes) Big Mr. Stevens was in his corner office overlooking th yard one day and a driver came into the yard with straight dual 5's and blasted the engine brake all the way to the fuel island,...he then said no more engine brakes,....or so the story goes.

I've always just used the 3 setting so I get maximum engine braking.
Either I want the engine brake on full or I don't want it on at all.
Yes.

Maybe he should have said all the trucks will have mufflers instead of eliminating an important safety factor by saying "no more engine brakes".

And, maybe he should have made sure that the engine brakes are used properly. Approaching a fuel island in the yard is not a situation where an engine brake is necessary.

Yeah Split,
The safety issue was what everyone was complaining about the most, and it seems as though a set of mufflers would make a huge differance in the sound.
I just tried mine out the other day, and I have to get a muffler as well, my truck has a single 4" up the back of the sleeper, and its way too loud when that brake kicks on.

And thanks Eagle for the info,....I have a few more mystery switches on the dash I'll be asking about soon.

1 = Pretty much do nothing. Slows you down for toll booth

2 = Good braking

3 = Oh CRAP, I am so F$^%*


(Kidding)

If your cruise control is on then leave the engine brake on #3. When your speed is over 3 mph it will automatically come on #1. If your speed is still going up it will come on #2 then #3.

You will figure how to use it on your own pretty quick. Another trick is to turn the engine fan on when the Jake or lower gear isn't quit enough.

Where's that nimrod rat bastard defecting CAM

To add fuel to the fire, the Intebrake on the Cummins ISX can be configured with a 6 position switch.

I rode in a Scania chassis bus while in Mexico that used a hydraulic retarder (like a CAT brakesaver) and that sucker did a good job of keeping the bus in check on downgrades. No noise at all but you could feel the retarder slowing down the bus. It had a multi position lever as well as an automatic setting that would engage the retarder automatically when the brakes were pressed. The main drawbacks are a slight delay in braking action due to the time it take to pressurize the unit with hydraulic oil and the heat that it generates when it slows the vehicle.

Allison offers a similar hydraulic retarder. A company called Telma makes one that uses electromagnets.

Right now my engine fan is on all the time,..I have to get that fixed. I see some wires that are disconnected near the fan housing (a solenoid of sorts), so I'll start there.
I like to figure this stuff out myself (the repairs anyway) so I can fix it on the road when it breaks.

Hey you ain't makin' no $$$ sitting on this forum.
I got offered a load today Jax Fl to Plattsburg NY reload to Dallas 25,000lbs for $2.25 per mile. Now I just need to post my truck for real, and go make some $$ on this investment.

Not all trucks do this. Mine certainly doesn't. In fact, over the entire time I've been driving, I've only been in one truck that does do this.

Don't you people have brakes?

Come on Steve - if you are so desperate for braking power that you're gonna use the Jake, a lower gear, and the engine fan, then you were going way too fast in the first place.

That is horrible advice you just gave.

Come on Rev, don't let your petty grievances with Steve put the spotlight on your own ignorance. There was nothing wrong with what Steve said. If you try to control a 78 or 79K truck down a 7% grade with the brakes you won't have any when you get to the bottom. You gear down, then you use the jakes, then you add the engine fan if you need it. You use all the tools available to you BEFORE you use the brakes.

My cousin taught me to drive and he retired with over two million miles of driving without one at fault accident. He told me three things that really stuck with me over the years. Stay away from truck stops, GET IT IN WRITING, and use the brakes only when all other avenues have been explored. Pretty good advice and all three have kept me out of trouble.

Excuse me?

That is poor advice, plain and simple. If you feel it necessary to use your engine fan to slow your truck, then chances are you're going too fast in the first place. The fan is not a tool for slowing the engine - it is a tool for cooling it. :roll:

I've driven plenty of trucks with no jake brake available to use down heavy grades, maxxed out at 80K. I've never smoked a brake doing it either, because I took the steps to prevent it before I ever began going down the grade.

Good for him. Now explain how playing with switches is safer than pushing on the brake pedal. The proper way to go down a hill is to:

#1. Slow down at the top
#2. Gear down
#3. Set your jake
#4. Use your brakes to maintain your speed.

If you do the first three, then the fourth should only have to be used every once in a while anyway.

Although if you are wanting to put excess strain on your fan belt, then by all means pretend it's an engine brake. :lol:

Besides - using your engine fan to slow the truck isn't going to give you hardly any slowing power anyway.

Rev hate to do this to you AGAIN the avarage HP draw of a Air operated fan when it engages in in the area of 60HP. That is right it takes 60 ponies to spin that fan around now I do not know about you but to me that is alot of braking power to add o keep me slowed down. One company I drove for even set it up so the fan came on when the jakes came on full so that we had EVERY ONCE OF ENGINE BRAKES WE COULD GET coming down some mountians. Millis transfer to this day still sets them up that way so does Henderson Trucking. Henderson runs Detriots and the other runs Cats maybe it is your PROTOTYPE CUMAPART that can not handle the extra pressure.

I probably have no right to comment on this since I am as green as they come being that I just got my CDL. But while in CDL school one of our topics was "extreme & mountain driving" and it was taught to us EXACTLY as Rev. stated in those EXACT steps. The first two steps being the most important. The 4th step should be used to bring your speed down below 5mph of your safe speed and then repeated as needed. Just my 1 1/2 cents worth :)

:roll:

Show me where that 60 hp number comes from. If that were the case, and your engine fan came on while climbing a hill, you'd lose some major speed and torque.

Who has a prototype engine? :roll:

That's exactly right. If you take a mountain grade properly at the beginning, then your brakes should only need to be used for correction purposes. Depending upon the grade, and my gross weight, I will go as much as 10 mph below my safe speed just to give myself that much more of a buffer. Most times, I never even have to touch my brakes, and if I do, it's only to drop one or two mph, and then I can let off them again. No engine fan in the equation at all. :lol:

I would love to know how much strain using your engine fan as a brake puts on the belts, since I doubt they are designed for torquing the engine down to a correct speed.

FWIW, engine management computers can be programmed to engage the engine fan automatically when the engine brake is on. I don't think it's a 60 hp draw, I seem to recall the number being around 15-25hp at the most, though it's possible it could be higher since the fan speed probably increases the HP draw exponentially (descending a hill at 2100 rpm with the fan on will create more "power robbing" braking HP than climbing a hill at a lower RPM with the engine fan on because the fan isn't spinning as fast.)

You stated your truck was s;peced like a prototype in one of your threads. Besides the ISX based CUMAPART has one of the worst designed engine brakes ever. Sorry drove an early verizon on it and at 79K coming down Parlay going into SLC on max it could not hold my speed checked. My 60 Series had not one problem at 80K however and the trucks were speced the same EXECPT FOR THE MOTOR. For Cummions to call the ISX an improvment over the N-14 is stupid. The N-14 was easier than heck to work on every mechanic in the world nderstod it since all it was the next gen Small/Big Cam series with Electronics on it. Tell me this Rev ever help your bosses save 1500 lbs in your companies trucks while improving driver comfort productivity and the company bottom line all at the same time I highly doubt it.

DING DING DING
http://www.daytonacpr.org/round2ringgirl.jpg

My truck is a prototype. The engine isn't. I've driven some Cummins that had poor engine brakes, but not all do.


?

I was a member of the DRIVERS advisory board at one company and when I started there we had very heavy trucks and they sucked if you were a driver and our turnover was skyhigh. The boss came to us and asked us to see what we could do to improve the trucks from a drivers point of view. We had to keep the cost of each trucks improvements under 4K total. 1st we added 10 alloy wheels saving 500 lbs then removed the side skirts saved us another 200 lbs then added real fridge and a microwave to all the trucks added 80 but we will still ahead. Then we changed the springs to compsites on the front end saved 180 lbs there we then lowered full capcity since we didnot use all we had anyway by 20 gallons total tank weight was 100 lbs fuel weight was 150 lbs. then we used an alloy driveshaft and hubs for the rest. In the cab we installed top of the line seats with massage and thick like 8 inch thick mattress for the drivers in the bnks costs were at 3K total per truck. We also increased HP from 400 to 470 without having to beefup at all the drivelines.

Good for you. What's your point? Are you looking for a gold star or something?

Any computer controlled engine can be configured this way. On my CAT the fan is programed to come on with the highest jake setting. It is just another tool to help with controlling the truck, no extra stress on the belt as the belt is already designed to operate the fan anyway. Adding the fan is worth about half a gear on my truck, no idea the horsepower draw but using the fan saves me splitting down when i need the extra slowing power.

I too learned to drive without a jake. In my post the order was, Gear down, use jake, use fan (if available not all trucks have a switchable fan either) Steve also said in his post that the fan was simply added slowing power he too had gearing down and jakes first.

That brings me to my first comment. Reading many of your old exchanges with Steve I think many people here would agree you pretty much despise him and all he does and will jump at any opportunity to take a shot at him. I guess it's ok but you shouldn't try to turn what he says around. It is in writing right above your reply, he didn't say you should try to use the fan then gear down if that doesn't work. He simply said the fan can be another tool to help control the truck and he was right about that.

You're putting too much thought into it. I don't despise him. In fact, I don't really put much thought into him. If anyone would have said what he did, I would have taken issue with it.

Actually, what he said was:

My issue is that if you are taking a hill properly, the jake, the lower gear, and the proper use of brakes to maintain that speed is plenty. No playing with the fan switch needed.

I drag my feet too!

Don't make me go get Rodney King out of retirement,...chain his a$$ to my flatbed and drag him for brakes,.........now where did that corner girl go?????

LOL thats what i like to hear
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I was waiting for someone to say that. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rev because of those changes the drivers group and mangement made at that one company the drivers ended up getting a 6 cpm across the board raise you do the math. I normally got around 3400 miles week end week out with out fail and I had no problem enjoying the extra change in the pocket I got. .06 x 3400 x 49 weeks figureing on takeing 21days off a year I hardly came home it meant roughly 10K more a year for a solo and 16K more for a team.

What does this have to do with using a fan as an engine brake?

what was the topic about again??????

ironeagle, I think your giving some false info about Millis. I drive for Millis and my fan doesn't come on when I use the jake set a full. I've driven 3 different trucks for Millis and none did this.

Mark

When I used to haul bedroom furniture, I was so light that #3 on the Jake was in real danger of killing my engine. (That was a mechanical engine. Modern ones will cut the Jake off below 1200 RPM (or whatever is appropriate for your particular engine.)) With that setup, I used to flip the switch up and down to vary the braking when going down a steep hill, and of course I didn't really need it, and I was just playing with it because it was there, and it made a nice obnoxious noise. :D

With the new job and new truck, I find I leave it on #3 all the time. I never have less than 19,890 pounds in the box, and the Jake doesn't seem to do anything at #2 or #1 except make useless noise.

I don't really *need* a Jake where I'm running now, for that matter, but it reduces the number of times I have to break the cruise.

Thanks for the info,....I was scared out of my seat when that thing came on inside the garage the first time. I was trying all the switches and buttons, and walla,....that obnoxious noise!!

If the jake was going to kill the engine you were obviously in too high of a gear to be going down that type of grade. If you downshift and go too slow, than you didn't need the jake in the first place

not true on the older trucks. the jake never quit. if you stopped the truck and put the parking brake on and then let out the clutch without turning the jake off, the truck would stall. it was real embarrassing when the boss was standing there

I've been doing the same thing Steve has.......

On my Cummins ISX 450, the engine fan does increase the braking, and as far as using it or not, you might as well turn it on, because the engine temp can creep up 25 degrees on the hills anyway.

I prefer going down 6% grades with my feet on the floor as well, that way I can use my brakes if I need them, to keep from crashing into the wrecked trucks at the bottom that operated otherwise. :)

IMHO, use the technology you have.

jonboy

Yep Rev is just wrong on this one. Most of the engine fans on Superior Carriers trucks are programmed to come on after ten seconds of continuous jake brake use. I looked on Cummins website and it turns out Iron Eagle was almost dead on, an ISX fan uses about 60 HP at 2100 RPM. It is in the Every Mile section of their website about fuel mileage and efficiency. The fan can really be useful in getting the last little bit of slowing power on steep grades.

If you need the extra slowing power from the fan, then you started the downgrade in the wrong gear and too fast.

All the Cat powered trucks I had the fan w/jake option deselected, I never saw the need for wearing out the fan clutch prematurely nor did I like the noise.

If you are running an ISX at 2100 rpm, then you have even more issues than wearing the fan clutch out.

My CAT was made maximum rated horsepower at 2100 rpm and was governed at 2300. I haven't driven a ISX but the N14 was similar to the CAT. Any heavy diesel is designed to be able to run at 95% of rated power for long periods of time without doing any damage. I have never been able to get any truck to hold on steep (7% or more) grades on gear and jake alone in any gear when loaded to eighty thousand pounds. The fan is just a little added help and has been programmed to come on with full jakes on every computer controlled truck I have ever driven.