[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

I found this post and thought others would like to get a headache as bad as mine.....
Read it 3 times and had to take a nap.

Be good, Jim


http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052

[Doghouse]

Interesting article, thanks for posting.,...I read it once, and now I must go pass out as well.

[allan5oh]

He doesn't talk about the oiling system as a whole, bearing clearances tighten when the engine is hot, and are bigger when it's colder.

[tdriver1959]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

somebody had to much time on there hands :roll: :roll:

[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

Originally Posted by allan5oh

He doesn't talk about the oiling system as a whole, bearing clearances tighten when the engine is hot, and are bigger when it's colder.

allan5oh,
I think he actually does.
There is a section where he talks about using thinner and thinner weight oil until your oil pressure gauge reads slightly below the manufactures RPM/oil pressure spec..
At that point you need to go up in weight and monitor the oil pressure as the engine wears. Increasing the weight as the engine wears and loses pressure.
Too thick of an oil puts the oil pump into by-pass which heats up the oil and wastes fuel.
So, no matter what condition your engine is in (within reason) the oil weight needs to be matched to RPM/oil pressure as speced. by the engine manufacturer.
Make sense???

Be good, Jim

[allan5oh]

Yes but you cannot simply go by that. Other parts may need protection that thinner oil may not provide. A good example of that on our engines are the wrist pins. Oil pressure at the pump has nothing to do with how much the wrist pin is being protected.

[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

Allan5oh,

I went back and re-read the whole link. Nowhere did I see the good Dr. referance splash oiling directly.
He does repeatly say thinner oils lube better for a varity of reasons.
Whenever I see engine damage from a oiling problem (usually low oil level, sometimes contamination, rarely, thick, way too old oil ie. never changed) it's the rod bearing's going first due to the high speeds the rod bearing sees, mains second.
Basically, I think if you can keep the crank's bearings happy, the rest of the engine will be fine.
Piston wrist pins almost never fail, at least in automotive applications. Detonation is what will take them out quickly.
Rockers and pushrods have a much higher failure rate even though they see far less use. The wrist pins change direction 4 times in a cycle and each rocker/pushrod sees 2 direction changes in the same cycle. Was just thinking, the wristpins are much hotter and have hotter oil on them. The thinner hot oil, may be lubing them better than the cooler rockers/pushrods???
If you want, I will PM the author and ask him about splash oiling and the thinner oil's. Actually, I may do this anyway since you brought up a interesting question about oiling.

FYI.....I was for years a ASE Master Auto Mechanic and have built many BBC blown injected on gas/alcohol drag car and boat motors. Currently my fav. toy is a 18 1/2' flatbottom, V-drive boat I am about to plug 1,800 HP into. I call it "my pleasure boat".
I have been running 50 and 60 wt Brad Penn oil since it takes alcohol dilution well. I will be rethinking things with this next engine.

Your thought's?
Be good, Jim
[/img]

[allan5oh]

Originally Posted by DEVIL'S ADVOCATE

Piston wrist pins almost never fail, at least in automotive applications.

Wrist pin bushings failed on my Volvo engine. Diesels definitely tax the wrist pin area very hard, that's why there's bronze bushings. $13k later...

Rockers and pushrods have a much higher failure rate even though they see far less use.

Let's talk about aftermarket solid roller v8 lifters too, I think thinner oils would help them substantially. They always seem to blow.

If you want, I will PM the author and ask him about splash oiling and the thinner oil's. Actually, I may do this anyway since you brought up a interesting question about oiling.

I already asked him some questions on BITOG, but the last time he was on there was a while ago.

FYI.....I was for years a ASE Master Auto Mechanic and have built many BBC blown injected on gas/alcohol drag car and boat motors. Currently my fav. toy is a 18 1/2' flatbottom, V-drive boat I am about to plug 1,800 HP into. I call it "my pleasure boat".
I have been running 50 and 60 wt Brad Penn oil since it takes alcohol dilution well. I will be rethinking things with this next engine.

Your thought's?
Be good, Jim

Excellent stuff! I think with an alcohol engine, the dilution is a very important thing to check out. It depends on your bearing clearances too I guess.

I have a question, is this engine dry sump?

[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

Allan5oh,

Wrist pin bushings failed on my Volvo engine. Diesels definitely tax the wrist pin area very hard, that's why there's bronze bushings. $13k later...

Interesting. I would think there is a nozzle spraying oil at the bottom of the piston. Lot's of splash oiling there. How many miles did the engine go?



Let's talk about aftermarket solid roller v8 lifters too, I think thinner oils would help them substantially. They always seem to blow.

I always run Morell lifters. They are the best there is. Pressure oil feed to the roller axle. If you think about how fast the roller spins on that tiny axle it needs to be pressure fed to live. On a big lift cam, the roller rotates almost 2 1/2 turns for every camshaft rotation. Engine RPM is let's say 8,000, camshaft speed is 1/2 that (4,000 RPM) times 2 1/2= 10,000 RPM for that little fellow.....Morell's are a bit pricey at $500.00 per set but worth it.


I already asked him some questions on BITOG, but the last time he was on there was a while ago.

Hate to burst your bubble but the good Dr. is a woman. Ali is something of a BABE!!!! LOL It was a typo on my part when I said "him".



Excellent stuff! I think with an alcohol engine, the dilution is a very important thing to check out. It depends on your bearing clearances too I guess.

I have a question, is this engine dry sump?

Dilution is a bit of a problem. With alcohol, higher comp ratios it helps things. I will run 11 1/2 to 1 with the next motor.
You get alcohol past the rings and into the oil and the oil ends up looking like yellow baby shit. By draining the oil out and warming it past 140F the alcohol will flash off and the oil is ready to run again. FYI, this is done in a open area due to the alcohol fumes.

This is a wet sump motor. 12-14 qts. in the pan and since the boat only runs on smooth water I don't need the expense and extra work that goes with a dry sump. Plus, I hate the thought of trusting a motors life to a damn belt that at times, can and will slip off.

I sent a e-mail to Dr. Ali asking about oil's for a blown alcohol app. Let's see what she has to say.

Be good, Jim

[DEVIL'S ADVOCATE]

I already asked him some questions on BITOG, but the last time he was on there was a while ago.

Hate to burst your bubble but the good Dr. is a woman. Ali is something of a BABE!!!! LOL It was a typo on my part when I said "him".


I wanted to clarify that I JUST found out the Dr is a woman when I sent her a e-mail.
At first I assumed the Dr. was a he.
The typo was just in the post after I found that out.
Not a bad looking blondie either....

Be good, Jim