Something else I just found interesting......
 

Talking with the couple who bought into that 9 mo lease/fleece with Swift, was talking about how my 8 mo are about up, and how i could sign an actual lease to purchase after those 8 months. They told me something interesting, and wanted to pass the info along.....

They signed up for that 9 month deal a few months ago. They were asked to resign a new contract with something new added to it. It is an "anti-competition clause". When i asked them what that was, they told me that if a driver quits or gets fired, they cannot work in the same industry for 2 years.

Is this a new 'standard' trucking companies are doing in general, or just swift...........


and please.....no smart arse comments about how swift sucks, or how bad their lease deals are. we've hashed that out, and wasted time with that before. So lets leave that out this time, can we?

why anyone would do a L/P through Swifty is beyond me

why do you keep asking stupid questions...you really got a boner to do this swifty lease deal, don't ya? swift sucks, there fleece purchase deal sucks, etc. you ask these questions about the deal. you know the answers you are gonna get, you even refer to that each time you ask your questions. you know the answers you are gonna get, so why keep asking? how many times do you have to be told that this lease purchase is a terrible idea? i think we are to 15 now, how many more till you get it through that head of yours that this is not a good idea...and you are hearing it from guys that have been in this and owned trucks alot longer than i have even been driving.

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It is an "anti-competition clause". When i asked them what that was, they told me that if a driver quits or gets fired, they cannot work in the same industry for 2 years.

Is this a new 'standard' trucking companies are doing in general, or just swift...........


Non compete clause. Pretty hard to enforce a persons ability to work in a non specialized field.

Given that they were dumb enough to sign a lease purchase, it doesn't surprise me that they don't understand the contract they signed. Basically what the anti competition clause means is that they can't solicit any of Swift's customers directly for a period of two years after termination of the contract. If they do, they have to pay some serious change to Swift. This is standard fare in a trucking contract, to prevent your drivers from negotiating with your customers to haul directly, then getting your own authority to do it.

If the non compete clause were in place as they claimed it were, it would be terribly easy to get it nullified, as it would be extremely vague. But that's not what it is saying at all.

P.S. Swift sucks, and any company that does lease purchase sucks.

[QUOTE=Rev.Vassago;451961]Given that they were dumb enough to sign a lease purchase, it doesn't surprise me that they don't understand the contract they signed. Basically what the anti competition clause means is that they can't solicit any of Swift's customers directly for a period of two years after termination of the contract. If they do, they have to pay some serious change to Swift. This is standard fare in a trucking contract, to prevent your drivers from negotiating with your customers to haul directly, then getting your own authority to do it.

QUOTE]
It would still be very hard to enforce a nationwide non compete from a driver to sales(unless the driver was involved in sales) I've had to try and enforce salespersons before,courts take a dim view of impeding a persons ability to make a living.

Rev. that is what i was thinking. The way my friends had explained it, was that you cant drive a truck for 2 years. Thought that was a bit harsh. and wanted someone with some good experience to help clear it up. I would venture that would be a pretty smart idea for ANY company, to have their drivers sign that. As far as getting your own authority goes, ya know.

JD and mike, i wouldnt have figured you'd come up with anything to actually support the topic of the thread. Keep delivering those pizzas, boys.

CRST tried that BS a while back with their students. They put a deal in their employment contract that if a student did not complete the contract they could not work as a driver for 2 years. It didn't hold up at all in court.

Thats the one thing I like about you Kevin, you never miss sarcasim....good job.

It would be ridiculous (and unenforceable) to try and keep a DRIVER from -DRIVING- for 2 years.

Methinks there's a little more to this clause than is being elaborated here.

That being said - as EVERYONE HAS SAID BEFORE (multiple times, on multiple threads) - only a FOOL LEASES A VEHICLE FROM HIS EMPLOYER.

Rick

Yeah, it would be hard to enforce, but it's a way for them to try to flex their muscles.

Makes you wonder how much those lawyers can come up with in these contracts.They just want to justify their immense paychecks, while drivers get the end of the bone.But hey, you are the one to sign up on the bottom line.

I might just sign up and then quit, I could use a 2 year vacation

Aren't you already ON a two year vacation? :eek2::lol2:

Fear tactics are a very effective deterrent. Letters from a law office to someone who doesn't have the financial ability to defend themselves works well also.
Would be interesting to see the full wording of the contract.

Some years ago I was leased to a carrier who went through a name change. They wanted all of their owner operators to sign a new contract. It was supposed to be exactly like the original contract that we all signed. I NEVER sign any document that I don't read and fully understand. Fortunately, I took the time to read each and every word. The carrier changes a few of the terms of my original contract. One thing they changed is the percentage that I got if I found my own loads. I changed it back to what was on the original agreement. There were a few other things that I had to change. I was told that most owner operators signed these new contract without reading the first word. I had a couple of instances where they attempted to charge me the higher rate on loads that I found. You need to be very careful when you sign any contract. If there is something in it that you don't agree then either change it or walk away.

shut up Beavis!!:pissedoff:

Not good Fredog! If he's Beavis that makes you..........:p

That's brilliant, rev. Is that a personal opinion, or the sites opinion? I'll let Swift the advertiser take care of themselves. As for me . . you're a perfect mythbuster.

As to the original post, that non compete language would be entirely unenforceable for the reasons many others have wisely pointed out.

As for leases in general, I have two major problems with them:

1. The companies that offer them (most) make them available to Drivers with too little experience. It creates a very expensive burden to someone who may not yet proven to themselves that trucking in any capacity is worth that kind of commitment. It forces the Driver to "Drive whether you like it or not and earn what you can or don't drive and you'll be financially ruined".

These companies prey upon the egos of the BBR wannabees by very insidious means: Make more money? Absolutely! And you can skip the part about driving someone else's headache and go straight to brand new, better specs and all that chrome plus we put 'em out at higher speeds! What more could a BBR want?

2. Assumption of risk vs. the illusion of ownership. Drivers with no demonstrable business acumen make an emotional decision to assume more of the risks which they are typically unprepared to do for no significant increase in return . . mo money . . , or worse.

There is a statistical probability you will have an accident or other expensive incident no matter who you are or what you drive. In a fleece, you need to drive your arse off in order to come out ahead (and nowhere is it guaranteed you'll get sufficient loads to accomplish this). Driving your arse off exposes you to greater risks in every possible way; from simple time on the road and a greater urgency to meet commitments to a willingness to "fudge a little" to get the job done. Big companies have resources to address problems big and small and keep the freight moving. Rookie BBRs don't. Don't bother looking to the company for help if you find yourself in hot water.


As for the upside . . well, there is one. Done properly, a fleece can be the means to launching your own business if you can adhere to a few simple suggestions . .

If you've been at this for awhile, 2 -3 years at a minimum, and you have proven to yourself you are able and you'd like to make a career out of this, to become a legitimate owner operator, and THERE IS NO OTHER CONCEIVABLE MEANS to do it, read on . .

First, you'll need to team or train for the life of the lease. These are the only two scenarios that can substantially improve the likelihood you'll get sufficient miles to achieve your goal.

Get an aggressive and successful accountant who is very familiar with every nuance of trucking by the numbers. He/she can walk you through a little crystal balling to set realistic numbers that will give you a very real sense of what to expect from yourself. You'll be set up with a very specific system of accounts and you'll need to be a fastidious record keeper. You should expect to meet quarterly.

Meet your banker in person and discuss your goals and objectives and establish benchmarks that, when achieved, open the door to better credit. Plan on meeting at least twice a year or as your benchmarks have been met, exceeded or when they need to be changed.

Find a good general business lawyer. Get a review of the lease so that you thoroughly understand your commitments under it. The lawyer will also help you with the best way to structure your business, within the confines of the lease, to minimize your exposure to risk. Don't go to the lawyer with the idea you'd like to make a few changes for "The Company" to consider . . they'll tell you to go sheet in your hat. Plan on meeting with him/her only when necessary but certainly in the event of a ticket or accident.

Shop your insurance CONSTANTLY. Different companies have different benchmarks for time and miles. Insurance agents and companies are *****s with whom you should expect no relationship. Keep an eye open for the best coverage at the lowest expense.

Now, do all this while you're on the road in the company truck getting all caught up in the emotional choice of signing that fleece or, do as most do, skip the advice and dive in, sink or swim, fall flat on your face and come back here and tell us all how fleeces suck.

Edited to add . . A successful fleece can establish excellent, big ticket credit. Your future doesn't necessarily have to include a life of trucking. You can take that credit and fulfill a different dream, so long as you're clear about that with your banker, up front.

The way these fleece deals are structured I don't see how anyone could make them work with the rates they are paying. By the time you add the payment, insurance and other deductions you will likely pay about $800/week not including fuel and other expenses. Most of these carriers pay amount $0.80-0.90/mile you can't earn enough to make any money.

Gman is right . . if you plan to go it alone. That is why I suggest a paid session with a trucking accountant to create some projections based on real life and not the pie in the sky numbers you will likely formulate in your grossly inept mind or be handed by the company.

In simple terms, your fixed expenses, those which you'll pay whether or not the truck moves, are expressed as a percentage of your income. When the truck doesn't move, you have no income and your fixed expenses are your loss. As the truck begins to move, expenses as a percentage of income falls until you reach the break even point . . when expenses equal income. If you find yourself at this point at the end of your month, I have bad news for you.

Make no mistake about it. There have been many business failures who have posted results here just like that.

If, on the other hand, you're successful at getting higher miles, your fixed expenses as a percentage of your income will continue to fall to a point where you begin to see a profit. The more miles you get, the more profitable you become. That's why I say the only way you can do it is to team or train. You have to be assured of higher than average miles . . WAY HIGHER . . in order to make this work.

As for rolling expenses, they should remain a relatively stable percentage of your income, average fuel cost, average maintenance . . so on and so forth. The wrench in this is REPAIRS. Non warranty mechanical repairs should be minimal and predictable given the warranties that come with the truck. You need to be aware of your liability if you make alterations to the truck (CHICKEN LIGHTS) or bounce off someone else's truck . . or a busload of nuns. Swift stipulates in it's lease that the truck be maintained in as new condition. No bubble gum or bailing wire. That's why I recommend the lawyer . . you need to be aware of the responsibilities/liabilities you assume the moment you sign that lease.

In any event, you won't be walking into a "living like Gman" world. You'll be starting over in a whole new environment and low man on the pole. That's why I say you need sufficient experience to perform an honest appraisal of yourself and your goals. Ownership, or the path thereto, is not easy for anyone but it's a lot easier for those with plenty of experience and a good head for business.

As far as the banker goes, let's say you defy all odds (and my advice) and finish your lease with $50 grand in your checking account. You walk into your bank and say "look Mr. Banker . . look at all this stuff I just did!" The bankers going to look at you and say "get your filthy boots off my carpet and is there anyway I can verify this pile of garbage that won't cost me or my shareholders any time or money?" Sitting down in the beginning and working with the bank throughout your travails will go along way toward building your credibility.

If you want to play with a spreadsheet and the numbers OOIDA has two on their website. There are a couple of things that I would change about it but it offers a good way to play with the numbers to see if you can operate profitably. We have broken down the operational costs on this forum on several occasions. You should be able to do a search and find them. If not, then perhaps someone remembers the link. The best way to see whether you can afford to buy a truck is to put all the numbers down and then make your decision. One major variable right now are the freight rates and availability. When you do projections downplay your income and add to your expenses. If you do the best scenario then you are likely to be disappointed. You need to be honest when it comes to looking at the numbers.

The swift 9 month plan is NOT a lease to own plan!!! It is a straight up 9 month lease, after the term you are offered a longer term lease, after which there is still a balloon payment. I read the contract on it not that long ago to see what they where up to.

its obvious you dont read any of my posts. OR you forget everything after its a week old, because i told my friends (the team) that it wasnt a lease to purchase.

If you actually read my OP instead of jumping at the first chance to bash me, you'd have seen i said was talking about AFTER i've got my 8 mo in.

get a clue....

Who said I was trying to bash you? I was illuminating the fact that the 9 mo lease plan is not a lease to purchase. You just TRY to find a fight even when there is none!

apparently it is "all about Kevin".... too bad too :hellno:

The lease does establish credit, but so does a home purchase and has a much better ROI

when someone tells me something i've already posted...pretty much calling me stupid. when i was asking about the 9 mo plan....i knew going in it wasnt a lease to purchase. too bad someone dont weeeed very well....even owners manuals.....HAHAHAHAHAH

kevin is like talking to a woman...no offense dobry and others. but he takes critiscm as a personal attack. he already made up his mind long before he posted that he is going to do this lease deal...he will get rich and be a big time owner operator. i think all we can say is good luck kev!!!!

A "non-compete" clause.... is virtually impossible to enforce. You cannot deny a person a right to earn a living. If SWIFT actually put that in their contract....they have mistakenly hired a real "*********" ambulance chasing moron. I say that because there are states that do not uphold non-compete clauses at all....like CA, and NY isn't big on them either.
Non-Compete Contracts

Where they are most effective...is against the "gullible" and "uneducated" where the laws are concerned. SWIFT....by including that clause in a contract, if they in fact did, just carved another notch in the measuring stick that proves they are "bottom-feeding".

that would be in the running for the witless comment of the year :hellno:

can you actually post something that is worth reading?? When you click 'post reply' does your brain just choose to quit?

i'm talking about two different programs here, genius. one was the 9 mo short term lease program, the one i asked about before and chose against, and this lease to purchase program i can get into after i get 8 mo in.

i think deep down that this 'dumb' persona you have is all a put on.

along with about every other post they've made.

Hey Look! Kevin has that, "I am the rare exception and I will exceed" attitude! Woohoo! Just like every single other person that has done a fleace! We will see him cruisin' down the road in that nice blue tractor, with the little itty bitty 'Leased to Swift' sticker on the side, pullin all that wonderful freight they have in this downed economy, at a wonderful .90cpm! Of course I am sure he will use Swift's insurance instead of shopping around for cheaper! He will be cruisin' at 70mph passin all the company drivers at 62, idling all he wants, wow, what a super trucker!

This non-compete clause is something that really doesn't have it's purpose.What is a "single horse" o/o going to do, jump on their 1000 plus loads from their dollar store account?I don't think it's something plausible and realistic at the same time.

The broker that i work with,he has around him like 20-30 trucks,some independents like myself and still doesn't get accepted ,or has a hard time competing with the mega carriers,just because doesn't have the equipment availability like a mega carrier would do.

and owe $47,000 on the truck after three years.


I do know a Swifty that is leasing under an INC and he is doing all right. :thumbsup: He got the inc to keep creditors away and it is working out for him. He never goes home except for Christmas. His blue fleece truck is his home.

I don't think the lease deal is good for most people. :hellno:

Not to mention mega-carriers usually aren't going to go out of their way to get a contract with a small shipper shipping out a truck load every couple of days either like a small brokerage would.

Kev, do you have cash saved up for when your Fleace truck breaks down? Swifty isnt going to be paying for it...when i blew the serpentine belt, took out the radiator and the fan hub, cost $4400 for repairs....since i am a company driver for Werner, they paid the Tab, but hell, think about if you were a Fleace driver....hafta pay out of pocket, and also for downtime, since they usually cant fix problems like that in a day...

When I was with Swift they would cover the cost upfront, but you wouldn't have a settlement until it was paid back in full :P.

Why in the hell would some one want to lease one of those ugly ass T200's.. In Blue or White.. Please!! At Least at Prime, Schneider, and England you can pick out a nice truck with a nice color!!

so basically, yer still paying for it *L*