Definition of OTR???
 

mine is a guy that does not sleep at home. whether it is in hotels or in the truck, or one night or more. that means i am otr, i sleep in the truck every other night now, and next week when i get back to fed ex, i will sleep in the truck tuesday nights and thursday nights. as for the guys that work with snowman at overnight, uh, i mean BUSTERBLUE...the ROAD drivers, they are otr if the sleep away from home. local means local...home everyday. not trying to start a fight here, just wondering what everyone else thinks.

Re: Definition of OTR???
 

I wouldnt classify you as OTR,probably more along the lines of regional.But if it makes you feel more like a manly trucker calling yourself an OTR driver than go head.

My defintion of OTR:
Irregular routes and unpredicatable hometime(be it 5 days out or five weeks out)

jd112488, what you do I would consider more like regional and /or dedicated.

OTR to me is a combination of a couple things. Being away from home and getting paid by CPM or %.or any other way of getting around not paying overtime for excessive hours.

OTR= Over time Ripoff

I would think the industry defines OTR as multi state irregular route. Technically were all "over the road". My job classification is "road driver" where I work. Road drivers go hub to hub 300-600 miles a run and usally returning to the same location. City drivers are classified as "local cartage" and they do P&D. I agree you have to spend at least a couple days a week away from home to be called OTR.

otr
 

ok here's how i see otr. otr is when you drive most of the 48 and are out for at least 2 weeks. regional is where you are out maybe 1 week but home a couple of days in the week. dedicated is mostly the same route and maybe out a week but could be home every few nights and local home every night.

Since a thread was started for this...I copied my definition from "Finally out of OTR" thread and brought it over here to add to the mix.

OTR...Common Carrier. Irregular Route, Irregular Freight. Distance of haul would not be a factor. Short/Medium/Longhaul. Xcountry or regional

The emphasis and fundamental definition is Irregular Route, Irregular Freight.

Sorry, Drew.... not looking for a fight...... but, it is more complex than that.

There are MANY companies that haul under contract to specific shippers, on "regularly" scheduled routes that go clear across the country nonstop before delivery. Then, the companies pick up produce (usually) or something else that will bring the driver right back to his home terminal. A week or two at the most before getting home.

What you describe, has aptly been called "hoboing around" picking up short loads from all points inbetween A and Z. But, it is MOSTLY the mega-carriers that do this. Why? Because they have more trucks to "feed" than they can get contracts for.

Medium to smaller OTR companies quite often haul for a few major contracts, to mostly the same places all over the country, and then get their drivers home to do it all over again.

But, these runs require many nights in a row on the road, sleeping in the sleeper (or motel) and thousands of miles per week.

I know that there are many drivers out there that never know from day to day where they are going, or when they will get home. But, they may spend NO MORE nights on the road, or drive more miles, than the OTR drivers that go coast to coast every week.

Like I said, it is a complicated matrix that defines OTR. But, I would say that anyone who sleeps in his truck MORE than he sleeps at home qualifies. Be it regional, dedicated, longhaul, or linehaul.

Those are just some of my thoughts on the question. Local is local! And there is nothing wrong with the "wusses" that do it! :lol: But, pretty much everything else is in some way considered OTR.

If there is a stretch of ROAD between you and your home, and it is still there when you wake up in the morning in your sleeper (or motel,) then you are OVER the road.

One more part of the matrix. You said "common carrier." Not always true. Many companies have their own fleets, and they are called Private Carriers. Consider Bernhardt Furniture here in the south. A private fleet of trucks, whose drivers haul furniture to, I suppose, ALL 48 states. Probably "regular" runs for these drivers who "bid" on them. But, they are out for days, maybe a week or two at a time. They may sleep in their trucks or not. I don't know. But, they definitely cover alot of asphalt! They are definitely OTR drivers.

So, as I said.... the matrix is complicated. Not ALL OTR drivers work for "common carriers." Not ALL drive "irregular routes," or haul "irregular freight." And, not ALL of them have no idea when they will get home.

What they ALL have in common, is not being at home every night. Which is the definiton of a "local Wuss!" :lol: :lol:

I haven't been home since February. Dedicated OTR.

Your home just called. Milk is sour and you left the bathroom light on.

I thought we covered this before in another thread.

In any case, local is where you are home every night. You will usually make a lot of pick ups and drops, but could just go out about 250 miles or so and then head back to your base. The key is whether you can get home every night. There could be the occasional over night stay, but that would be a rarity.

Regional is where you run primarily in certain area, such as the Midwest or Southeast. You will still be staying out as you would long haul but will likely be able to get home a little more frequently. It has nothing to do with whether you run dedicated or irregular routes. It has to do with where you run. For instance, the Midwestern region could be Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. It could involve even more states depending on the company. Most carriers define their own regions, if they have them. Regional is still considered otr by most, but not long haul.

Long haul would be considered where you could run all 48 states. You may or may not run them, but you could. Some may consider this otr, but I look at regional and long haul as the same thing. Long haul would get home about every 2 weeks or so.

There are some carriers who could have more regions where they run, especially when looking at the larger states. For instance, Texas is a very large state and could be considered a region in itself. There are some who rarely get out of the state. I have known of some who primarily run from Dallas to Houston and perhaps San Antonio. They rarely leave the state. Another might be Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana. You could likely run those states and earn a good living. You won't be home every night but could probably be home weekly, providing you live in one of those states.

I started out driving mostly Reefer, with occasional Tanker, Van and Flatbed trips. Now I'm driving just Flatbed.

During local Harvest, I would drop off the long haul, and drive local. Making runs between the Fruit Processor to Cold Storages...keeping the Plant freezer emptied for the incoming harvest. I'd also haul the fruit in, pulling double flats...or shuttling empty fruit totes and tanks. then after a few months of that...it was back to long haul.
(we'd be paid hourly for the local)

Winters, I'd do coast to coast and Canada, going into most every State except North Dakota. Spring and Summer...lots of East Coast.
Fall...lots of local runs.

I quit grocery, and been doing only flatbed for the last year. That has me 70% intrastate/30% Regional interstate and Canada.

As a Reefer driver I was paid percentage, plus whatever else I could manage to supplement my income, like doing my own lumper work, and holding dispatchers/brokers to their word.

Now in Flatbed, I am paid hourly...with an additional CPM for when I drive. I am doing my own loading and unloading, as well as some shop work as needed to fulfill my driving responsibilities. I'm home everyday, with occasional overnight.

I'm actually working two jobs, to keep the same income I had doing OTR. I'm working as many hours, doing much harder work, but I'm home most every night now. I'm so exhausted at the end of the day...I wonder if I'll be able to add Bow Hunting Deer to my new "lifestyle." At least longhaul, I was spending less money, no extra commute time and expense, and didn't have as much laundry to always need to do...and the list of home chores, by virtue of increased hometime. Can't say one method of OTR is superior over the other, but I like long haul the most. I need hometime for now, but I see myself in the future doing the long haul again...and hopefully in the terms, I've learned I need. Knowing me...I'll get the terms I want.

I have always defined myself an OTR driver...whether I run a daycab or a conventional, and get home every night, or do extended.

So much for local paying more than otr. :roll:

Figures, the guy lives at the freakin north pole. Eskimos can't afford to pay much! :lol:

You do realize that it also depends on the area that one lives in. Around here local pays just as much and in some cases more then OTR but some of the local jobs are also a joke becuase of pay. Around here if you want a good paying local job you better:
A)Be willing to work as an extra until you can get in full-time(Union shops)
B)Be willing to unload the truck yourself

So, in reality, local can pay more in some places and less in others.

Once again, TO EACH HIS OWN

I got your wuss right here Hobo. :wink:

I've seen the OTR characters who hang out at the truck stops and I've seen local drivers. The wuss would be the steering wheel holders wearing the baggy shorts, wife beater, and flip flops while playing video games waiting for the shower. :lol:

:lol: Yoose guys beat me to it... :? ......eh.

Pay is less up here, and I am also at starting wages.
But yeah, I am making the money by working two jobs. I have more expenses by living at home, instead of out of my truck. Commute to work isn't bad...12 mile drive dodging only a few Deer. But cost me more of my wages and my time for the extra commuting...how many local guys add up their extra costs?
I have a more social lifestyle with more hometime too. OTR I generally conserve a lot more.

One job pays me $13/hour, but very flexible in letting me work full time at this new job, and give them what I can. Full benefits. Looks like I'll do mainly local heat treat part runs, after I clock out at the other job. There are longer runs though, like yesterday I ran a load of steel parts to Ohio, with a backhaul of parts to repair from the same customer... Chase Brass & Copper. Time and a half on anything over 8 hours. That trip takes me 14 hours, and a hour to unload when I'm back.

These businesses I'm working for are 1/4 mile apart, and both Bosses and I are longtime friends.
Company no.1 is an Extrusion Tool company. (Tool & Die)
Company no.2 is a weldment company. They weld up patented parts for the auto industry, and Harley as well as government military contracts. The owner has patents on many designs of his.

Both companies have employee's who have stuck with them for 25+ years...so that tells you a lot right there.

Great equipment too. My new rig is an '07 KW T-600 conventional (coffin sleeper) 35k miles on a 475 Cat twin turbo, fuller 10-speed hooked up to a 42' covered wagon. They pay me $14/hour base pay and add CPM for my driving time, which will boost my drive pay to about $16-17....depending on the miles.

I have made an average of $1000-1200 a week driving Reefer on percentage for quite a few years, and as I mentioned, my duties varied. Another thing about boondock companies...we take whatever we can get. We have some stable consistent contracts though. I hauled a lot of frozen fruit nationally for the local Fruit Processing plants, and hauled a lot for Sara Lee...frozen pies.

Again...absolutely great equipment. I always drove brand new Peterbilts, set up with APU's, and new Great Dane Reefers with those whisper quiet Thermo-Kings. Beautiful company embroidered jackets, and treated very well, best of everything...as you'd imagine a small family company operating. Again, guys I grew up with, and often best friends with one of the Bosses.
But we worked hard at driving...usually out 2 weeks, and we played the game smart. No Daisy's need apply. :lol:

Indeed. I'll never work for irregular-route mileage pay again. What a hosejob!

Mileage pay only makes sense in a dedicated linehaul operation running between terminals. That's truckin' the way it was meant to be...you just drop, hook, and go. None of that waiting around for hours and hours, dealing with consignees, p&d, getting lost, and all the other time-wasting garbage. Leave that to the guys in daycabs and short-boxes on the clock getting paid for their time.

Like when I took a load to the University of Chicago bookstore. 2 hours stuck in Chi-Town construction traffic, got lost due to a detour and almost hit a bridge...finally get to the place and trucks lined up everywhere. Had to wait 5 hours to get unloaded. Sent in my empty call and waited another 2 hours for a load....then more gridlock rush-hour traffic. Finally got out of that mess and fueled up at the $hithole T/A in Gary, IN for free...then out of hours and parked for the night.

So that's what...12 hours of work for $30.00 of detention time? Are you kidding me? What other industry gets away with so blatantly abusing their employees time/labor?

I'm not gonna let some two-bit motor carrier jerk me around like that anymore. No way, Jose. For now on it's clock-time with overtime after 8/40....anything else is uncivilized.

Would say Local gets paid by the hour and OTR the mile. Distance no matter , where you sleep no matter. Over the Road does not mean long distance or sleeping in a truck for petes sake.

1. Milk is bad for you. It wasn't my house.

2. Can't be my house. I would have been outside looking for a tire.

LBJ . . we have the Washington State sitchyation . . two companies being sued from two sides over CPM vs. fair labor and overtime. We have the Swift class action thing that has suddenly found new life. There are two California issues fermenting: The port rules, which the Teamsters are hand steering and the recent recognition that "all employees" working in the State (includes Drivers) are entitled to enjoy the rules and benefits of CA labor laws . . the tide IS turning.

Still, we have the knuckle draggers who think CPM is wonderful, free labor and unpaid wait/ready/idle/breakdown/layover time are great and any sacrafice "I" can make is still the coolest thing on earth.

Soooo . . I'm going to start a survey thread and i'm looking for input.

What do you (anyone . . not just LBJ) think are the top 3 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 19, etc, motivations for leaving things as they are?

Like:

My Dad (Mom, Granny, Cousin drove truck . . put 17 kids through 3rd grade!)

I don't like anyone and I prefer to be left alone.

The Waltons of the world deserve all the money and laborers be damned!

Heck . . anyone can drive a truck! Takes a real craftsman to change a tire.

CPM/percentage advocates: Please list your top (insert number) motivations for whoring yourselves out . .

I'll build the survey from there. Thanks

I dunno LBJ. The Gary, IN T/A might (probably does) top Carney Point? I hadn't thought about that shitehole in quite a while. Because I don't have to anymore. Thank goodness. Yet another shining reason to go local. Leave all of that silliness to the diehards!

Heh heh heh. Couldn't have said it better myself. They're gonna love you for this timba. :lol:

Can't you people post anything without all the name calling? You don't seem to understand that you undermine your credibility when you constantly result to name calling and belittling most of those who are on this board. If you have valid points then it should not be a problem to defend them without the constant name calling. By the way, labor laws, such as minimum wage, are established at the Federal level. Federal law supersedes state or local laws. The more states throw additional laws at companies the more they will move out of their states. California has seen a mass exodus of business to Arizona and Nevada in recent years. It has been primarily due to high taxes and costs of doing business in the state because of over regulation. You all are always so negative. It would be refreshing to see something positive from you.

That place is truly a dump, belpre. I'd say it's the wost truckstop I've ever been to. One of our drivers got stuck there b/c a shootout ocurring while he was fueling his truck. The cops stormed in and shut the whole place down...nobody in or out for 6 hours.

Why is trucking exempt from the FLSA provision regarding overtime? It's BS. You should be getting time-and-a-half after 8/40 hours on the job.

Trucking isn't the only exemption. When you enter a particular field it's YOUR responsibilty to understand how it works. Some people are only capable of understanding and/or succeeding in an hourly world, others are quite successful being paid based on what they accomplish. Different strokes...

And, some people could not hold onto a job with a chain and padlock if it weren't for the UNION backing them.

I believe that I addressed this in an earlier post, LeBron. However, it bears repeating. If you travel across states lines you come under the jurisdiction of interstate commerce. That is regulated by the Federal government. Since drivers can do other things other than work during those times, they are exempted from the Fair Labor Standards Act. In other words, they cannot be supervised. Drivers would be paid for playing video games, surfing the Internet or anything but working. That is why most drivers are paid by the mile or percentage. It is actually better for the carrier and drivers, at least for those who work. It enables those who work harder to earn a bigger paycheck. Those who slack off are not going to be paid for their lack of productivity. The companies benefit by only having to pay drivers for their productivity. A local driver can punch a clock and be under supervision. One who stays out over night cannot. The company has no way of knowing for sure who is working and who isn't. Mileage and percentage pay benefits those drivers who manage their time and are productive. There is no incentive for the hourly wage earner to be more productive since they are paid the same whether they work or not. They could drive or sit in a truck stop and they would be paid the same money. I would not want to limit my income by being paid by the hour.

Im a tad bit confused on your stand point here Bigtimba.Werent you the one who was advocating swift in another thread? Now you're so anti cpm and swift? Not attacking you,maybe im mistaken.Just wanting to know where you were coming from?

I understand the federal jurisdiction, but I don't think your explanation makes any sense. There are plenty of local companies that run intrastate freight where their drivers run sleeper trucks and are paid by the mile and not supervised. The only difference is that they're not crossing state lines. Not all local drivers are paid by the hour.

So your argument doesn't hold water.

Yeah the slackoffs won't get paid. But neither will the guy who has hours, wants to run, and the company can't find him a load. Which means he sits in the truckstop earning no pay. How fair is that?

And when he does work, he isn't compensated for all his labor. He gets shorted on the miles he drives, he drops/hooks trailers for free, inspecations for free, looking for MT's, checking-in, sweeping/washing out trailers for free, sits in traffic for free, etc, etc, etc, etc...for free.

Not really. The carriers pay layover pay...but it's after 24 hours. So the OTR guys are getting paid to sit around and play video games. Same deal with breakdown pay and detention pay.

Are you serious? Most fleets use qualcomm or other computer-assisted dispatching. They know where the truck is, how fast it's going, whether it's on or off, idle time, overspeed, etc...that's like having a boss over your shoulder 24/7.

Yeah, all those UPS package car drivers sitting around doing nothing LOL! You ever see those guys run from their package car to your house? I have.

There is an incentive...it's called getting fired from a good job.

Yeah, I have lots of time to sit around truckstops with 22 stops to do in 8-9 hours. :roll:

This doesn't make sense, either. Both the hourly and .cpm driver are limited by the HOS...neither one of us can work more than 70 hours in a week, nor drive more than 11 hours, nor work more than 14. Being paid hourly has nothing to do with it.

LeBron, I suggest you do a little research and read the FLSA for yourself. Perhaps you will better understand it. Trucking is not the only industry or profession that is exempt from the FLSA. There are quite a few who are exempt.

If you work for mileage your carrier likely pays you for the miles you run, so you are being paid for your effort. There are some who pay HHG which may short you and them on the actual miles. Most are going to practical miles that are more accurate. You are most likely paid for all the miles your carrier is paid. Some carriers pay extra for drop and hook, some don't. Those who use drop and hook do so in part to prevent you from sitting. You complain about sitting to be loaded or unloaded but also complain about having to drop one trailer to pick up another so that you can keep running. It doesn't usually take long to drop one trailer and pick up another. Not all carriers use qualcomm. The qualcomm will not tell the carrier if you are working, only your location.

I have paid my drivers when one of my trucks have broken down if they have had to sit over night and have even put them in a motel on occasion. There are other carriers who will do the same.

Depending on your rate you could make more on mileage than hourly, even with the same number of hours. Percentage will nearly always pay more than mileage, depending on the rate. When you work by the hour, you will make the same amount of money no matter how many miles you run or what the load pays. The percentage driver or mileage may or may not make more, depending on the rate. All the mileage driver has to do is drive more miles to give himself a raise or make more money. The percentage driver can make more by hauling higher paying loads. The point is that the opportunity exists to make more on percentage or mileage. It is the driver who greatly effects his income. Either gives the driver more control over what he makes.

It boils down to what you want to do. People know what this job entails and what they will be paid. You can either accept it or go find an hourly job you like. There are also other jobs you can do which don't offer an hourly wage, such as sales. There is no need to belittle those of us who choose to do this for a living. It isn't your cup of tea. There are millions of us who apparently enjoy what we do and how we are paid.

The ones I see exempt are executives, administrators, learned professionals, and outside sales. I don't see any other blue-collar exemptions besides trucking.

You're wrong on two counts.

1) If I work over 8/40 hours, I get 1.5 X my hourly rate.
2) If I excel at my job, I recieve a bonus.

Fair enough. But what happens when he wants to work and there's no loads? Why does he have to sit in the company truck for free for 24 hours before he recieves pay?

Then why the huge turnover rates in OTR?

This is going to need a little clarification:

Federal law NEVER trumps state law. That's why the minimum wage is higher than the federal rate in many states, for example. State and local laws may provide more expansive rights. Federal law provides minimum workplace safety standards, but allows the states to take over those responsibilities and to provide more stringent standards. States rights are the very foundation of our Republic.

Now, when it comes to interstate law, states have input but that game is run by the feds. If and when states choose not to go along with the feds, the feds threaten to withold money and the states usually cave.

[quote="MartenDrvrCA"]Im a tad bit confused on your stand point here Bigtimba.Werent you the one who was advocating swift in another thread? Now you're so anti cpm and swift? Not attacking you,maybe im mistaken.Just wanting to know where you were coming from?[quote]

Swift isn't the devil, here. Swift is a great company like I'm sure you think Marten is.

The devil is the law and the law is the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 . .

http://www.osha.gov/pls/epub/wageind...orStandAct.pdf

"(b) The provisions of section 7 (below) shall not apply with
respect to —
(1) any employee with respect to whom the Secretary
of Transportation *72 has power to establish
qualifications and maximum hours of service pursuant
to the provisions of section 31502 of Title 4973; or . . "

Maximum Hours
SEC. 7.35* (a) (1) Except as otherwise provided in this
section, no employer shall employ any of his employees who
in any workweek is engaged in commerce or in the production
of goods for commerce, or is employed in an enterprise
engaged in commerce or in the production of goods
for commerce, for a workweek longer than forty hours unless
such employee receives compensation for his employment
in excess of the hours above specified at a rate not
less than one and one-half times the regular rate at which
he is employed.


Swift doesn't pay overtime because the law says they don't have to. It doesn't say they can't.

If Swift were to decide tomorrow that, starting Monday, their Drivers will be paid overtime after 40, Swift would be gone by Tuesday.

Swift can't do it, Marten can't do it; no non-union company can do it. The choices are to unionize and bargain for overtime or the law needs to be changed. It will only be possible and fair when it applies to everyone.

As for CPM . . CPM as used by any carrier where Drivers are not owners is a flat out fraud. There have been many threads on that topic but I'll be happy to answer any questions.

GMAN. That question was the whole basis for the previous thread we hashed this out in.

The money is not worth the aggravation.

The question is the same and the answer is the same. Pay fair. If pay is fair, pay will improve. If pay improves, the work will become more attractive. Happy workers will work hard to keep their jobs and the slackers will find their own way out.

You are a staunch supporter of good paying freight yet, at the same time, you say the economy can't afford higher rates. Well. Which is it?

I picked up a load of bottles made in Mexico and took them to a warehouse in the US. From that warehouse, the bottles will be shipped to Canada where they'll be labeled. From there, they'll be shipped back to the same warehouse where I dropped them to be filled.

You could argue that the cost of sole-sourcing in this country is too high. I'd argue that the price of shipping this stuff back and forth across the country is too low.

Ah hell Lebron/Timba. You would probably have more success herding cats than trying to talk any sense in to GMAN. (or his sometimes wingman Twilight Flyer :P ).

Those two are so steeped in their traditionalist/apologist views, that you would find that a mule is far less stubborn.

They are indeed, the Norman Rockwells of CAD. :lol:

Bigtimba..there are many many non-union driving jobs out there, which pay better hourly and provide better benefits, than do the union driving jobs.

Some of those companies are fuel haulers...such as where Blepre works. Others are companies like GEBetz, They pay their drivers hourly, plus OT after 8/40. They pay double time, and triple time and a half, for weekends and holidays worked. The drivers are not required to use the sleeper. GEB pay's for the motel room. Last I heard GEB drivers were making $27.85 an hour.

GEBetz has a hiring standard that makes TWIC seem like a walk in the park.

GE Water Processes...the division of "GE" that GEBetz is a part of, runs dry van. Their standards are a bit less restricitive. their pay is managed differently, yet the drivers make the same wage as do GEB drivers. All those drivers receive "GE" benefits.

As for the rest of you...Your not seeing the message "G" is trying to impart upon you. Business has the choice of paying hourly or mileage. Business has the choice to pay OT or not pay OT.

Belpre...how would you feel if your OT stopped because you crossed a state line?

How would you feel if suddenly you were out of work, because your pay out ran the rate? This is where "G" is coming from. If the truck is not making the rate...how does the truck pay the driver? And in trucking...If the truck is not making the rate..the driver isn't making money..period. Even local trucks have to make "Rate" in order to pay the driver. When there is no work what happens? Does the driver sit at home getting paid, because there is no work? Not hardly. Low man on the Totem Pole gets to go hungry...that is the "Union" way.


When I was at ARCO...if there was no work for trucks, (and because the company gauranteed a driver 10 hours per day, four days per week) if a driver sat at home, The first driver to sit was the senior driver for that shift. It worked down the totem pole from there. In Seattle we were none union. Rarely did a driver get asked to sit at home. Usually work was cut up and the entire shift would work 4 to 6 hours, yet still be paid for 10.

That was then..now such is not the case. Now..with BP..no work..no pay.

Thats the way it should be

It's unbelievable how stubborn all you guys are! :roll:
Why cant we just talk about each others jobs rather than trying so hard to convince each other that ours is the best? I dont doubt for a minute that GMAN, Orangetxguy, Lebron, and Belpre all do well in their respective fields. And as for the union bashing we're not any different than you guys are. We want the best pay we can get just like you. Why do you sit waiting for $4 a mile when you have $1.50 there for the taking? The same reason I wont work for $12/hr thats why. And if I were an O/O and you a company driver we'd both be the exact same way. And I dont care about killing the cash cow. If he dies I"ll find another job! No problem! And lazy? Please! Do my job where I hook 4 sets/8 trailers every night, or DoubleR in foodservice, Lebron doing P/D, I dont think any of us are lazy or we wouldnt have our job or the motivation to get a good job. Well Mackman might be lazy, ITS A JOKE! I'M JUST KIDDING! You guys who have done well in OTR are the exception to the rule, congrats. By the same token good local jobs are hard to come by which makes us the exception to the rule also. We all do well in the field we want to be in. We should be sharing how we did it with those who are interested instead of bickering over who has the better way. Face it, 75% of all trucking jobs suck anyway so lets help those who want to know what else is out there.

Somebody has to milk the clock for all its worth. :lol: :lol: