Malaysian Mystery Flight
 

I'm kinda stumped on this one, too!

Which theory do YOU think is most plausible?

Where do you think it is?

Through a portal in the indian ocean to groom lake.

Aliens beemed it up.

I have several theories.

1: A terrorist attack with a "dirty" bomb, a nuke was set off on board and vaporized it.
2: A terrorist attack where they disabled all the trackers and then flew across the ocean very low and off radar to an unknown location.
3: An on board problem caused the pilots to turn around but they lost navigation and spatial awareness, eventually fuel starvation leads to a crash because they are lost.
4: An on board problem led to a turn around, turns out it was an oxygen problem, plane flew on auto pilot in a straight line till fuel ran out. Think Payne Stewart.

Upon first reports and lack of black box signals from the original area it was said to have gone down in, I was hedging towards #1. With the newest info out, I'm thinking that isn't even remotely possible now but let's say it is possible, how would we know? A nuke has never been set off at 35K feet that we are aware of. #2 seems likely but very brazen, you don't know exactly how much fuel is on board in reserve to know if you can actually make it wherever your going. You can't stop and re-fuel without someone seeing and telling. With the lack of black box pinging, maybe it didn't crash at all. #3 and 4 are very possible with the newest info, the search area has been expanded to thousands of miles from the last known reported locations. It's said that if we get within 500 miles of the black boxes we can hear the pinging. If we get in the area and still no pinging in water that is much shallower than the Air France location in the Atlantic, gotta go back to #2 possibly.

I keep coming back to the 2 Iranians flying on stolen passports. That info should not have come out when it did. Now everyone is trying to cover it up as not important and they aren't suspects for the reason that it was an unauthorized leak. I feel differently, they are suspects. It was said their backgrounds were clean so not suspect at all, that is exactly what the terrorists groups are going for these days and we already know that. If they can bring in young adults who have a clean background to do a dirty deed, that is exactly what they will do, it gives them a better chance of not getting found out until after it's over.

What's interesting is that relatives are calling cell phones and in their minds, sorta getting connected. It rings so they believe something is there. Are these being tracked at all just in case? At this point, can't discount anything.

Groom lake. Isn't that near Area 51?

Funny thing is... I've been obsessing on the fact that it was a 777. Kinda lucky in Vegas right? Well... guess what? YOUR last post was your 777th! lol!!

I knew I had something better to do today. Should have went with my son to Vegas Thursday. He was racing in the Mint 400 today. Rear-end and then a clutch killed that. Maybe I would have won enough to pay for it.

Groom Lake is area 51.

Where did that come from? Can't take it out.

I tell you, it's aliens. 777,strange attachments.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1334[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1335[/ATTACH]


Won't let me delete it.

Mr. Ford said:

Dirty bombs don't vaporize anything. Not a nuclear blast. Slow radiation leak. That's why they call them Dirty bombs.

I'm kinda on board with this one, but... if just a terrorist attack.... crash it right away and make it public! Maybe, meant for a future attack, which brings up more questions. More on this one later.

I thought of this one, but.... facts about when the transponders were turned off, and a few other things, make this unlikely. Besides.... they flew west RIGHT south of the border with Vietnam, and into the strait of whateveritsname. They could SEE the land, and they should have been able to turn left and keep the land in sight while trying to return to the airport in Kuala Lumpur. But, just in case.... I would be looking REAL hard at the ocean just west of Malaysia on the way south towards the airport. [And I don't know that they aren't.]

I don't think so. No "mayday." They were still in range to send one. Payne Stewart's plane had a rapid decompress IIRC. This would have been slower and the oxygen masks would deploy. They dropped to 23,000 ft which is under radar but NOT low enough to pressurize the cabin. Many other reasons, which is ONE reason I thought they may have tried to get back to the airport, but... new info seems to contradict this possibility.

You're right that we should have seen debris AND heard the pings of the 'black box' IF it went down at the point of "hand off." A dirty bomb is not the same as a nuclear detonation. It would not have killed the black boxes... and would have left a debris field. It is just a "conventional" explosive combined with low grade radioactive material. IF it was a true nuke (that vaporized the plane and the boxes,) it would have caused an EMP event that would have affected all electronics in the area. I think it would have been noticed.

Very brazen, indeed, but it is becoming the most popular theory. I've even heard that it would have been possible for ground crew (in on the plan) to put more fuel in the plane than was expected. Another few gallons and they could have continued on their 'due west' flight path..... right to Somalia! Gee.... who's been "pirating" ships? Somalia! [just a theory.] Maybe, they thought they could make it and didn't! Might find the wreckage 10 miles off the coast of Somalia.

Now.... they said it had enough fuel to get to Kazakhistan. No real need to land and fuel before reaching Asia. But... let's say they wanted to stop and refuel/reconfigure the plane as a bomb. Where would they find an airport (military OR civilian) that they could land without being announced to the World? Hmm... I think IRAN is within that range! Maybe more on this later.

I think 3 and 4 are out. The transponders were shut down separately (fifteen minutes apart) before someone said, "allright, goodnight." I don't think it's 500 miles... but, that's not important. Also, the water in the Indian Ocean is just as deep as the Air France location. If the pilots were in control, they would have descended BELOW 23,000 ft to get cabin pressure. They SHOULD have been able to turn left again, come down the west side of Malaysia and right back to the airport. More than enough fuel to do that.

Bingo! Not sure about the timing of the info, but... why did they "give them a pass?" Going to work in Europe? Mommy's waiting for her son? Really? She would NEVER lie for her "militant" son... right? Give me a break! TWO stolen passports on the same flight... and BOTH of them Iranians? Duh! It takes at least two to pull this off! I also heard that Malaysia has a MAJOR militant muslim problem... and don't like to ADMIT it! (or deal with it.)

Cellphones must be placed in "airplane mode." Doesn't stop it from ringing when someone calls and gets the SERVER. But... it would disable ALL GPS location data. Kinda explains the rapid climb to 45,000 ft (or whatever it really was) to make the oxygen masks deploy and distract the passengers, then disabling them before they could change the settings on their phones.... AND.... they were outside of any cellphone range! I also heard that that particular plane did NOT have the wifi package that would be needed. Sounds like some pretty good "planning" doesn't it?

I said I was stumped. But, I think I'm leaning VERY heavily towards your #2! What has me stumped is just what the plan was, who is IN on it, and where are they going and WHY?

And then.... there's always another option. "They" don't win every time! What IF there was a brilliant plan... but, they missed something? Ran out of fuel... or, somehow thwarted by someone in the crew? MISSED it by THAT much!? [And since all comms were shut down... no way for them to make a statement.]

We may never find the plane (if that was the case.) And we may never know what the plan was. But, you never know. I don't think this is OVER just yet. But, I HOPE we have learned that we don't KNOW what we don't KNOW. And that some things will change!

I just wish the MEDIA would learn something from this! I really HATE bad reporting! lol.

I would LOVE to check your link(s) to see what you're posting.... but, I don't dare! lol.

Illegal aliens.... or "undocumented" ones?

:p

I say it was hijacked and landed somewhere.
If the hijackers wanted to crash the plane, they could have done that much easier than stealing the plane and taking hostages.
We would have found wreckage by now.

Just a picture of the truck racing. Maybe the plane was in the picture and the terrorists hacked my phone and computer. I think I really like this conspiracy stuff. Great excuse for anything that happens.

If we're lucky we may know before something happens. What about the passengers? Was joking yesterday(I know, sick) might be why they dropped altitude and eliminated them. Less weight longer flight. And anyone can figure out the max flight distance. They don't run extra fuel(costs more to haul it)than needed plus a reserve.

Pretty hard to have a ground crew put in "extra" fuel. Unless the pilot and co-pilot are in on it. Computer reads the lbs of fuel to calculate the take-off.

My computer has been acting strange too. :confused: made in China?

Funny you should say that. I was having so much fun "debating" Mr. Ford's theories that I forgot I had a few of my own.

Profit motive: How much is a 777 worth? If it made it to Iran or many other countries that make **** up as they go along.... the gov't of that country will be GLAD to return it for a FEE! (ransom.)

160 Chinese on board? What are THEY worth (if alive) when sold into slavery and shipped to the U.S. in containers? (Lethal Weapon 4?) lol.

Where WAS that section of the ocean that China recently "declared" part of their airspace? Libya used to do that. They claimed 75 miles off their coast when International treaties acknowledged only 12?

Well, Hobo did you hear the Chinese report of a supposed seismic event in the area of last contact off Vietnam? Could a nuke have caused that even at 15 to 35K feet? While I am not very believing of the Chinese reports, someone needs to question it as a what-if. As for ruling out lack of spatial awareness, go back to the Navy flight that was lost off the coast of Florida, Flight 19. A group of them had no idea where they were and to this day we have no idea where they went down. Cellphones don't have to be placed in airplane mode. I have never set mine to that or turned it off when I fly. Mind you I have zero signal while in the air BUT, supposedly a relative claims to have talked with a passenger on board. Nobody has said if it was before or after the disappearance or if it was before the plane took off.......another hypothetical that has been unanswered. Maybe if it was terrorism, did they take all cellphones and destroy them? Anyone who doesn't prove they have no cellphone or refuses to give it up is then killed?

As for the depth of the Indian Ocean, yes it is just as deep but for where we are looking the water isn't as deep the Air France landing. Now we have expanded it though so now it moves into deeper water. I'm not understanding as to why we didn't move the search area's sooner. We knew we weren't picking up any black box signal. It was said by experts we should be hearing them within at least 500 miles. If that is the case, we should have been moving our search area quickly. The difference with Air France was that as it was falling(it was in a stall and falling) real-time data was being sent to Air France and Airbus, so we had a very good idea of where it was. Even so, it took 2 years to locate the boxes laying in water nearly 13K feet deep. With this one, if it went down, nobody has a clue as to where to begin looking. We have been looking in the waters west of Malaysia along the coast there, no dice so they started expanding more west when it came out that some intel showed something headed west for up to another 4-7 hours. Remember, they were at least 1 hour into the 4 hour flight with a reserve of 3 hours to give them a total of about 6 hours of fuel left depending on how fast it was going and any head/tail winds.

But Hobo, China and Iran are cozy with each other? That would put a dent in their relationship if they took them hostage and really give Russia a headache too.

Valid point. But, we don't KNOW yet whether or not the "goodnight" crew was making a "move."

I was just going off of some stuff the idiots on CNN are saying. That it didn't have enough fuel to reach Africa. I looked at the red "arcs" of where the pings were supposed to have appeared. By my eye... it seems that the horn of Africa (Somalia) is barely within range.

I know you were kidding, but.... flying low over the ocean... they COULD have dumped all of the passenger bodies, AND their luggage. That would extend their range by quite a bit! Now... since there is no radar to speak of out in the Indian Ocean.... they could have climbed back to a high altitude, to save even MORE fuel, without fear of detection.

[You KNOW that rapid climb to top altitude was to KILL the passengers, right? So... they would just have to throw out about 200 bodies! lol.]

Like I said.... maybe, they pushed it and FAILED. It might have been worth the try to them.

Mr. Ford said:

Are they? I haven't had time to pay attention to minor stuff. Did China (or Russia) veto any of the sanctions placed on Iran by the World community? Besides.... China is pre-emptively placing blame on the Weegers. And THEIR territory is along the "arc."

By "them" I guess you mean two little Iranian punks who weren't even supposed to BE on the plane? Let's SAY they all land alive somewhere (under Chinese or Chinese Mafia or Weeger control.) So.... a month from now, we hear that the two Iranian "students" were graciously returned to their homeland (that they were trying to escape.) lol. Come ON, man....

Why? Were there some Russians on board? You think China cares about giving Putin a headache? THEY are the booming economic power these days. They would rub it in Putin's FACE.... if he could look away from the mirror long enough!

Just LOOK at how this missing plane has all but "overshadowed" the events in Crimea!

Now.... this is NOT my "theory." It's just ONE of the many I have been considering. Which is MORE than I can say for the media! lol.

I wonder how no one got a cell phone call, text, or anything sent out, and it's not posted on youtube.
NSA should have record of any messages. :)

Maybe it was just repo'd.

Mr. Ford said:

Yep. Heard about that AND a possible underwater volcanic eruption nearby. Maybe, the same event? Don't know. Think it was a coincidence. No, an "airblast" of a Nuke at 15 to 35k feet ABOVE sea level would not have caused either of those events. Now.... IF the wings stripped off on a dead man's dive, and the fuselage imbedded in the sea floor AND they had a major nuke warhead on board.... ah but, I don't think the timeframes match.

The left turn of the plane brought them back to, and over land that they KNEW to be there. Keeping the LAND out of your left window, would bring you right back down the west side of Malaysia, and BTW.... the airport is ON the west side of a ridge of mountains down the middle of Malaysia. IF altitude was a problem.... that would BE the way to return to the airport. Probably IS the standard "return to airport" flight plan for all domiciled flights. I.E: It might have already been stored in the auto pilot! Giving the "new" pilots plenty of time to input "changes" for the next leg of the flight.

Flight 19 had no spatial awareness because they were flying over open ocean. NO land in sight. IIRC... it even happened during daylight, so.... NO star "reckoning." THAT is when you lose all spatial awareness. Without the sophisticated systems we have Today... THEY were overmatched, and simply followed the leader of their "flock."

This is not upper Virginia (D.C.) we're talking about here. That far off the coast of a third world country... there are no towers close enough even if you had a megaphone! lol. Hell.... I can't even get a signal from Sprint in parts of NM and AZ! [More good planning?]

Been watching MAJOR news outlets since I got home. Haven't heard that little rumor. You reading TheBlaze again? lol.

IF it was... maybe, they LEARNED from Flight 93? First step... take the plane to 45,000 feet and pop the masks and distract the passengers. They're already OUT of cellphone range and the plane HAS no wi-fi package. Maybe, they were smart enough to bring some kind of jammer? At any rate.... I don't believe any calls were made even if it was a "break-up."

True... we believed it was a catastrophic event and crash somewhere in the area of last "voice" contact. Shallower water. Everyone did their part. Nothing there. We didn't move the search area sooner because the Malaysian gov't was holding stuff back! We searched where we thought it would be. Considering the mystery and vast ocean areas involved... I think, we are moving things along pretty quickly, now that WE are allowed to get more involved!

You might need to check those facts. Pretty sure I heard something more like 20 miles max. I even heard ONE guy say 1/4 mile! [but, I think he was on Fox.] Even the original search area was wide open ocean! We should have been seeing debris, too! We kept going farther out, thinking it was supposed to be in THAT area. THEN.... we heard about the military radar "hit." Like I said... perfect plan until you forget or don't know about ONE little thing! These guys may have studied the plane, and the area, and even civilian radars. But.... did they consider a simple EW radar site manned by two Malaysians who haven't seen a plane in months?

Not SO good of an idea, eh? Point is, the boxes only ping for a month. It was two years later when we found them. Different situations completely (I think.) BTW... did you hear that the voice recorder won't be of any use if the #2 theory is even close? Know why?

I heard it was about 7 hours of "unknown" flight time. The last "ping" around that "arc" was after 8 a.m. and the handoff was about 1:47? That doesn't mean the plane didn't fly on for some time AFTER that last ping... but less than one hour more. That's another 400 miles plus?

But.... I have a REAL problem with that "arc" that everyone on T.V. is "promoting." It's as if they thought the plane actually FLEW in that arc!

Take the last known (or even suspected) position of the plane, calculate the range in hours and convert to miles at both high AND low altitude, and then.... take a string and a pencil and create another "arc" that will intercept the arc they are showing! THAT will show you where they crossed the ARC (and then add another hour of flight) unless.... they circled a bit to waste time and frustrate our best investigators!

WERE they that smart? They've certainly had TIME to learn from OUR mistakes and weaknesses. You think they'd try to hijack another plane from Boston? No... I think the sleepy little country of malaysia is JUST about right!

All I really know is, if Shania starts to feel afraid, I would love to be her body guard, and be paid to keep a close eye on her, at all times. :)

Well, I think I MAY have covered that. But, still.... I wonder also. I know if I'm ever in that sitution, I'm gonna hit 911 in a heartbeat! Oh, but wait.... that may not work out there. Certainly won't have "enhanced" 911 that gives my location. The other thing is.... cellphones won't GIVE a location over the ocean!

As for the NSA? Sorry. They only spy on phone records BY Americans IN America.... or on vacation.

Seriously though... you'd be surprised how involved the NSA IS in this investigation. What? You don't WANT them to help? Okay. Enjoy your next 9-11!!

I guess some people think our spy satellites can see everything ALL the time. It don't work that way. Here's your "word for the day," BORESIGHT. Look it up. It's how our satellites hone in on areas of interest. It's like a "spotlight" above a Broadway stage. Without changing the position of the satellite, we can change the "area" we are collecting data from. The U.P. is HARDLY on our list! lol.

Here's a clue. Unless the Soviets move an entire battle group out into the Indian Ocean, we are NOT going to have a "footprint" over a bunch of water!

However.... there are GOES satellites that are doing JUST that! Has anyone mentioned searching THEIR data?

I wonder if there were any A.F. Recon flights in the area when this happened? Cuz... there's a position on those planes dedicated "mostly" to monitoring International "Civilian" flights. I know, cuz I had to DO it for awhile. There would be no reason to pay much attention to this flight, searching for more important flights of "heads of states." But.... at the MOMENT this flight deviated from its flight plan.... I would have gotten an alert to "record" all data associated with it if I could find it. At least.... after 9-11.... I sure SHOULD have!

breaking news!!!

PLANE FOUND IN PAKISTAN

breaking news!!!

that is the headline Monday, but you heard it here first. :)

All I know is... I HOPE you aren't using that avatar on the Shania FAN page!

I get the heebie jeebies just reading your posts!

Makes me want to buy a gun.

Heck, I can't figure it out. I had considered pilot suicide as a possibility, although that wouldn't explain why certain navigational and communications systems were disabled. Not all of those systems could be completely shut off within the confines of the cockpit, so a suicidal pilot would have to have someone else working in cooperation with him. Seems rather unlikely.

Hijackers would have to be able to assume control of the aircraft and disable those same communication and navigational systems. That wouldn't explain why they would keep the plane airborne for several hours. Seems to me that hijackers seeking martyrdom would want others to take notice, or would have deliberately crashed it into some populated area. That indicates to me that there might well be covert involvement on the part of some government, some where. In that case, the 777 might well have landed safely somewhere. But, in what country?? And why?? Go figure.

The only other possibility that I can think of would be some type of massive, cascading failure of the plane's electrical systems, but given the system redundancies the 777, something massive would have had to go terribly wrong in an instant. Highly unlikely, but not impossible.

Back to China-Iran, they are cozy with each other. While under sanctions, Iran has been shipping cheap oil to China for their massive consumption of gasoline. China only cares about themselves, they will toss Iran under the bus in a second. We already know this in dealing with them ourselves. They claim to like you but will stab you in the back in a heartbeat if it benefits them.

By "them" yes, I mean the Iranians involved and on-board. You are aware a 3rd Iranian was involved right? A 3rd one bought the tickets for the other 2............if this turns out to be the Iranians involved from the start, China-Iran friendliness is gone. Their relationship will have a big dent in it.

As for Russia having a headache here, you betcha. China abstained from voting at the UN meeting yesterday over the Ukraine mess. China and Russia have voted together against Iranian and Syrian sanctions or military action. They have both also been against anything on North Korea. They have a relationship, China-Russia. Russia-Iran also have a good relationship. Russia has been helping them with their nuke program and working to keep sanctions or military action from happening against Iran as best they can. Iran and China look up to Russia, last thing Russia wants right now is to have China pissed at Iran and ready to launch a few missiles at Tehran. Russia has it's own problem with Ukraine/Crimea, you know Putin is sitting there going "awwww shiite" while rubbing his temples. This would be like England and France getting into it with each other, who do we side with since both are allies of us. There was also 1 known Russian on board.

Thinking more about it, I don't believe just 2 "terrorists" can take over a plane these days without some passengers fighting back. 2 against 200 and some? Sudden altitude changes will help keep passengers from fighting back some. Even if you kill them all, dumping the bodies and luggage is inherently dangerous.

You do know that Flight 19 wasn't just over open ocean. There was a report that they were passing over land. They assumed it was the Keys they were over and relayed that info to ground control. It is believed they were actually flying over the Grand Bahama Island area and ground control informed them to put the sun on the port wing and fly north. This Malaysian flight was middle of the night.............easier to become disoriented of just where you are, isn't the first time it has happened in commercial flight that has led to a plane going down due to fuel starvation.

Mr. Ford95:

You've done a very fine job of articulating some of the conflict between nations in that corner of the Earth, and you've done it in a concise, but clear manner.

This saga has reached a point where the more I read, and the more news videos that I view, the more I'm doubting the truthfulness of what we're being told by government authorities from any nation, including the U.S. It is now clear that the Malaysian government has been less than forthcoming with what information they have. Fewer and fewer of the pieces to the puzzle are fitting now, which leads me to believe that this involved international covert activities at the behests of some government entity.

Somewhereistan :)

Hobo, I remember hearing Germany, the UK, Venezuela, and others complaining about NSA spying on them, after Snowden blew the whistle on them.

No one wants to share any info with the USA, and don't trust the USA, and our government has been a bunch of backstabbers lately.:)

No talk of the Bremuda Triangle, yet??

Lately?? :confused:

Yes indeed it has. Originally it was stated the pilot or co-pilot signed off from Malaysian ATC and was being handed over to Vietnam's ATC when they went black/signal/contact originally lost. Now we are being told they started going black before the co-pilot signed off with "All right, Good night." Saw a map today, they could have reached Somalia if they flew directly there or even Australia with ease.

It's also now come out that the Malaysian military might have been asleep at the wheel.......or has purposely lost radar data. They tracked it for another hour and suddenly could no longer track it or even bothered to scramble jets into the air. Questions are now being directed at them for some major lapses that they appear to be unable to answer. Could this just be a simple hijack where the plane is friggin sitting right around Malaysian territory, landed at another airport and all passengers are just fine. We are hearing how Malaysia is having some big internal issue's with current leaders and rival opposition groups.

:) Thats good!

Now people are talking about shadow planes and swapping ID's..........if this was terrorism why has no group claimed it? Why go after an airliner full of people then fly into hiding when you can swipe a large cargo jet from 3rd world and developing countries easier and pack them full of explosives? A hijack suicide mission doesn't seem to fit anymore unless passengers brought the plane down but even so, we should have found the wreckage already one would think. Why fly the plane out into the middle of the Indian Ocean and crash it without a word or reason? Seems similar to the EgyptAir crash in 1999 but that this would have been flown for 7 more hours.......

A new theory has been floated that a Singapore Airlines flight was flying right along the last known tracking path of Flight 307. Could it have dropped in behind the Singapore flight and became 1 on the radar screen? India is said to only use their Air Force radar tracking on a need-to basis. So blind luck could have carried the flight across India. 2 planes flying together suddenly become one until it's out of Malaysia radar sight and then moves off across India unseen. Or did another plane converge with Flight 307, a small charter plane and remotely switch ID numbers then drop below radar and land onto a very small airstrip that the 777 never could land on? Meanwhile the 777 then flies on like normal as it has a different and new ID now.

I was wondering if it might be too soon, to begin a serious dialogue on supernatural/ and or space alien intervention.

There is a radio active plum of water drifting through that area from Japan, and it may have awakened some prehistoric creatures, like Godzilla.
There is a whole realm of possibilities, that shouldn't be simply over looked, because these stories don't just make themselves up, you know.
Some of these stories have been repeated over and over for centuries, so they must be true. :roll3:

As far as space aliens, I'm not sure they are interested anymore in aircraft, like they were back in the 50's.
They've been living among us for years, and when they decide to take over, there is nothing we will be able to do.
Resistance will be futile, and we will be assimilated.

But that is still a few years off, and has nothing to do with this missing flight.
But, maybe they are behind this, to distract us from something they want to go unnoticed?
You know, … they could pull something like this off, no problem.
Aliens just think of us as food, you know.

Well, There are some glimmers of hope. The Malaysian government has now confirmed that the passenger's baggage has arrived in St. Louis, Missouri.... And in Tuscon, Arizona.... and in London..... and in Rio De Janeiro.... and in....................