Sorrry. I didn't make myself clear. I should have said.... "BY your own words and BY your own definition...."

My point was that you talk about "extremists" and the "obsessed," yet YOU fit your own definition of them if you would just look at what you say at times.

What the Rev quoted from you about HITLER is a prime example! That is taking this argument, and your dislike for Obama, to the EXTREME.

In nearly EVERY post you make about him, you continue to claim that Obama is both a Muslim AND a Socialist..... although I can't think of any real world example where those two ideologies actually CO-EXIST. :roll:

In THAT way.... you show your OBSESSION.

I don't know if you actually believe all the stuff you say about him, but if you do.... that shows a marked PARANOIA (which is a combination of obsession and extremism.)

You remind me of Sean Hannity and Rush Limburger in the way that you CONTINUE to spout lies about him even after they've been disproved. This makes you the WORST of all these combinations....

an Extremely Obsessed Fundamentalist! (aka: Conservative.) :lol2::rofl:

Sorry, GMAN..... I just couldn't resist. My fingers just kept leading me toward that eventual conclusion. I'm having a little fun here. I DO respect you, but I have a hard time answering the avalanche of misconceptions and untruths that come from your political beliefs.

Up next:

Obama was born in Kenya!

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/15hr-JHG-pA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

When you say religious freedom, maybe freedom from the roman Catholic church, to be free to worship with out a religious dictator, and I mean dictator controlling every aspect of their life??? No matter how you look at it, this country was built on religious beliefs which happen to come from a christian belief!!! Why you argue this fact is beyond me!!!
Gone for a few days, see ya when I get back!!!

Its still unbeliavable to see folks judge the entire religion on the acts of few. I want to give Rev. credit for being involved in the subject so far as his points coincide with mine and am glad to see that some have their head cleared from all the garbage you see on TV these days.

It is also very sad to see Mike continuously overshooting with his posts here and surprising me in the process even more.


Everything concerning Islam and our relationship with the Muslim world starts with us here in America. We have been involved in that part of the world ever since oil came about, supported conflicts, overthrew governments and such, yet our people still seem to think that we are the righteous ones here without looking more deeply below the surface of this garbage that we have been fed.

There are two documents that make up the founding of this nation: The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I'll take the Constitution first, as it is the easier of the two.

The US Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers.

The Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states.

Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government.

Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men."

The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness.

Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.

ssoutlaw said:

And HOW are you different? You said....

FROM the article...
5 U.S. troops killed in Afghan violence - Afghanistan- msnbc.com

.... I see that "... an American service member and an Afghan police officer got into an argument because the American was drinking water in front of the Afghan police, who are not eating or drinking during the day because of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, said the district chief, Abdul Baqi Zemari.

Now.... I realize you have a strong opinion of what happened, but obviously no understanding of WHY!

I was "not there" either, but let me take a stab at it. It's Ramadan and the ANA's have to fast during the long HOT days in this Godforsaken craphole! No food and NO WATER!!!

Some American soldier with about YOUR level of tolerance and consideration for their religious beliefs swaggers up to them, draws out his canteen and proceeds to gorge himself with cool water, probably allowing some of it to wash over his face and spill onto the dusty ground! Then he smirks at his lower class "bretheren in arms" because HE enjoys a freedom that they do not.... and he has reminded them of it.... even on THEIR OWN SOIL.

Now, it's up to you. You can believe it was an UNPROVOKED shooting.... or you can believe it happened SOMETHING like I envision it. After seeing some reports on the news about the way our troops were talking down to the Iraqi police forces..... there is little doubt in MY mind what happened here.

And just another little reminder to you. You said in the post JUST before that one.....

Please don't piggyback your beliefs on mine. I think you are way off base when it comes to "blacks have a right to be racist." NOBODY has a "right" to be racist.

Jefferson's version of the Declaration of Independence NEVER used the words "endowed by our CREATOR" either!!

Read all about it... and other issues pertaining to the Separation issue.... at the following link. Go to the table of contents page and find something you want to know the TRUTH about! :roll3:

Jefferson's Original Declaration of Independence Did Not Use the Word "Creator"

I'll 2nd that sentiment.

Just to stir up some more chit, and knowing that I read a reference to it SOMEWHERE in this thread....

What makes you people think that Rev. Wright was a racist? I'll bet MOST of you are basing that statement on the clips of his sermon where he said "God DAMN America!" Am I right?

Well, I wonder if any of you saw.... or if one of you tekkies could find for me on youtube.... the clip of the Republican wing of congress... or some conservative group like that.... singing "God, DON"T bless America!"

It's the SAME thing! :lol2::lol2::lol2:

"I" understood what Rev Wright was saying when he SAID it! He was saying that America had not lived up to its beliefs.... and therefore we had no RIGHT to ask God to bless us! He should.... and by definition found in the Bible.... DAMN this country for some of what it has done to each other AND other nations.

But, the utter HYPOCRISY of Republicans making such a stink over that.... and then joining to sing the song with different words..... God... DON'T BLESS America! :lol2::lol2: