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Socialism is about power and control. It isn't about helping people. They use that to get the masses behind them. As long as the government continues to give away goodies they maintain their power. With this type of spending bill they will create a much broader dependency on a centralized government. Centralization translates into power. No matter what you call this bill it is a tax. The only way it can be paid for is to raise taxes.

Lets see. A 787 billion dollar stimulus package, and a 700+ billion dollar bailout of the banks, and lets not forget the auto bailout. So far we are looking at approx 1.5 TRILLION dollars added to the national debt trying to turn around the economic crisis caused by a bunch of greedy people.

While speed is important, it is just as important if not more so to be sure that you are spraying water on the fire and not gas.

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Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 438960)

Exactly and it's been proven and proven time and time again that socialism does NOT work. Even the national government controlled health care doesn't work, you can ask our neighbors up north how well it's working out. Every time the government gets into our lives they always manage to makes things worse than better! The government just needs to back off and let us the people elect them in make our own damn decisions! I'm so sick and tired of lazy people taking advantage of welfare especially that bimbo that had 6 kids and decided to pop out 8 more!

Golfhobo it is being talked about that Obamas plan to fix the banks has a 2 TRILLION dollar Price tag. That is correct 3 times what Bush signed for. Enough money to pay for half an AIRCRAFT CARRIER AND ITS AIR WING. Yet Obama while we are fighting a 2 front war on terror wants to GUT the military spending 10% or more by not fixing equipment that is being used and abused in Iraq and afghanistan Not replacing the F-15 and 16 planes that last year had to be stood down because they were losing wings during high-G manuvers like they would see in combat. The last NEW F-15 came off the line in 1983 26 years ago F-16 in 1988 21 Years ago they are way past their designed life yet Obama is cutting funding on their replacements the F-22 and F-35. WTF are our pilots supposed to fight with when their planes come apart in midair huh their JOHNSONS.

If Obama and the gutless chickencrats really wanted to stimulate the economy by adding more jobs they could increase some of the military spending which would actually do some good. It would require minimal delays since these companies are already up and running. These military contractors could be up and running almost immediately. Instead of doing something that would actually do some good they want to build walking or bike trails and parks which will not do anything to add jobs or keep our country safe. The chickencrats of today hate the military. They come in and gut the military so that they cannot do the job we ask of them. When the republicans come back into office they need to spend much more on the military to build it back up again so that they can protect this country.

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Originally Posted by GMAN (Post 438990)

During the past 8 years we spent more on the military than in our history and it got us absolutely nowhere at all.

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Originally Posted by Double L (Post 438956)

We're heading toward a socialism state of Government but the liberals don't see it cause they think Obama is the messiah and the savior of the world! NOT Also when we try to give liberals facts they ignore it cause they hate the truth and hate facts!

And all you can do is spout hate and fear, give us one verifiable fact just once in your argument.

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending - ProPublica

Read it yourself, this is the spending part, go back to the top and click on the taxes part to see the other half. I will reserve my comments I have to get back to figuring out what to do with a extra $13 a week.

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Originally Posted by golfhobo (Post 438944)

Not to dispute anything you said, but.... tell it to the nearly 600,000 people that lost their jobs in January alone, that you can WAIT to read it alll, and argue about it! In fact... tell it to the projected 1 Million Americans who will lose ther jobs in FeBruary if we wait!

For 7 and 3/4 years, Bush lied to America and told us that the economy was strong AND that he was "creating" jobs! When the "veil" was lifted, we saw the truth. And it required immediate action of ANY sort!

MOST Presidents don't even have their cabinets in place within the first 100 days. FEW (if any) have passed ANY Bill within that time. Obama has been in the White House for LESS than ONE MONTH.... and some people are aleady saying he has FAILED! Why? Because he didn't do what 43 other Presidents couldn't do in such short time?

I don't have a problem with wasting another few months for discussion on the bill. Another million or more out of work won't affect ME. How about YOUR job? But, the FACT is.... we WON decisively! America (not counting YOU) is ready for ANY kind of change! He doesn't NEED "your" side's permission to pass his plans! So.... why wait? Why debate? Why waste time while Americans lose jobs at a RECORD rate?

This is your cherished "representative" form of government at work! So... just sit back and STFU and let us see if we can FIX the problems you Republicans have left us with!

NOT aimed at YOU, Vito. It's the "collective" you again! :lol2:

JUST for the sake of argument, let's say he wanted it on his desk for signing by MID February so that the END of the month figures MIGHT show an improvement, or at least an abatement, in the trend of job losses and company failures reported in January.

The money won't even be flowing by then, but perhaps the economy will get the "signal" that things are changing. Talk to me again in a MONTH!

He hasn't failed cause "he did what others couldn't" he did what they shouldn't have done! Do you really believe this will work? Japan spent 3 trillion ( i believe and no I'm noy looking it up) in the 1990s to cure there ressicion and it was a complete failure as this may be. I hope it works but when you start looking at what there spending on it's a rippoff of the taxpayer and WE have no one to blame but ourselves cause WE relect the same greedy stuck up know it all bast*rds again and again.

OK GH flame away!

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Originally Posted by marylandkw (Post 438992)

During the past 8 years we spent more on the military than in our history and it got us absolutely nowhere at all.

We may have spent more in those 8 years and the DEMs. sreamed about it many times, Now they just spent aprox. the same amount in three weeks and rumur has it are going to need another trillion or two.
How do you feel about putting that much debt on your children?