Stimulus Tax Bill Passes
 

The new stimulus tax bill passes. Apparently, congress passes the stimulus tax without even reading it. These people passes an 1,100+ page bill that they didn't even bother to read!! It is the largest tax bill in history. It is nice to know that our elected officials are looking out for our best interests. :fire:

Apparently the Chinese are not happy about this bill passing. They are not bailing out their banks. They sound more capitalistic than we are.

Gman you mean the Deep fried wrapped in bacon pork filled WHOLE hog Spending sree that NAzi Pelosi took the Democrats on. That so called Stimulas pacakge that passed with no GOP reps voting for and 7 Democrats also voting against in the house and 3 RINOS from the NE in the Senate for in the Senate to avoid a Fillibuster.

The best part to me wasn't the nature or the amount of the spending. It wasn't the argument about how great the $13 weekly tax cut will be, starting in June. It wasn't the argument about whose fault the whole situation was in the first place.

The best part was that the bill HAD to pass before the ink was dry. A day or two of public debate would be absolutely disastrous. For every minute that passed, a rottweiler would eat a baby. Waiting until Monday was not an option. Pass it now!

Then... "I'll sign it Tuesday. I'm taking the weekend off."

I love it.

Newsflash,

90% of bills passed are never read.

Yep, that is the one. :pissedoff:

Not to dispute anything you said, but.... tell it to the nearly 600,000 people that lost their jobs in January alone, that you can WAIT to read it alll, and argue about it! In fact... tell it to the projected 1 Million Americans who will lose ther jobs in FeBruary if we wait!

For 7 and 3/4 years, Bush lied to America and told us that the economy was strong AND that he was "creating" jobs! When the "veil" was lifted, we saw the truth. And it required immediate action of ANY sort!

MOST Presidents don't even have their cabinets in place within the first 100 days. FEW (if any) have passed ANY Bill within that time. Obama has been in the White House for LESS than ONE MONTH.... and some people are aleady saying he has FAILED! Why? Because he didn't do what 43 other Presidents couldn't do in such short time?

I don't have a problem with wasting another few months for discussion on the bill. Another million or more out of work won't affect ME. How about YOUR job? But, the FACT is.... we WON decisively! America (not counting YOU) is ready for ANY kind of change! He doesn't NEED "your" side's permission to pass his plans! So.... why wait? Why debate? Why waste time while Americans lose jobs at a RECORD rate?

This is your cherished "representative" form of government at work! So... just sit back and STFU and let us see if we can FIX the problems you Republicans have left us with!

NOT aimed at YOU, Vito. It's the "collective" you again! :lol2:

JUST for the sake of argument, let's say he wanted it on his desk for signing by MID February so that the END of the month figures MIGHT show an improvement, or at least an abatement, in the trend of job losses and company failures reported in January.

The money won't even be flowing by then, but perhaps the economy will get the "signal" that things are changing. Talk to me again in a MONTH!

I heard one story that stated that Nancy Pelosi wanted it done so that she could take a trip to visit the Pope on us. After all, there is no need to interrupt her taxpayer paid vacation to sort out all of the details of the largest spending and tax bill that has ever existed. What a legacy she is leaving. And to think that no one even bothered to read it. But then who had time to read a 1,000+ page document in less than 24 hours. I am sure everything is all right. After all, Nancy is a patriotic comrade. She and comrad Hussein are going to make things all right. "WORDS?" "CHANGE?"

This bill will do little if anything in the short term to save or add jobs. It takes months to put this type of program in place to see any benefit. The president of Caterpillar contradicted Obama when the president told employees that passage of this bill would save their jobs. The president of Caterpillar said that was not true, at least in the near term.



Sometimes no action is better than the wrong action. Congress was asleep at the wheel.



Much of this bill was done before he even came to office.



It is important to discuss and debate any bill especially one that is likely to bankrupt this country. Congress failed to keep the public trust. A few days or even weeks won't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. A bill of this size should have debate and discussion. The reason it was shoved down our throat before anyone could read it is because of what they were hiding. If they could not even let people read it then there is much that they are trying to hide. This congress and president are violating all sorts of laws and rules in the way they are handling this. We essentially have a dictatorship. When the other party is irrelevant then we have a dictatorship. Oh yes, change is coming. 'CHANGE?" "WORDS?"

We're heading toward a socialism state of Government but the liberals don't see it cause they think Obama is the messiah and the savior of the world! NOT Also when we try to give liberals facts they ignore it cause they hate the truth and hate facts!

If it's being signed on Tuesday, it didn't need to be passed until Tuesday, n'est ce pas? Why the secrecy?

Socialism is about power and control. It isn't about helping people. They use that to get the masses behind them. As long as the government continues to give away goodies they maintain their power. With this type of spending bill they will create a much broader dependency on a centralized government. Centralization translates into power. No matter what you call this bill it is a tax. The only way it can be paid for is to raise taxes.

Lets see. A 787 billion dollar stimulus package, and a 700+ billion dollar bailout of the banks, and lets not forget the auto bailout. So far we are looking at approx 1.5 TRILLION dollars added to the national debt trying to turn around the economic crisis caused by a bunch of greedy people.

While speed is important, it is just as important if not more so to be sure that you are spraying water on the fire and not gas.

Exactly and it's been proven and proven time and time again that socialism does NOT work. Even the national government controlled health care doesn't work, you can ask our neighbors up north how well it's working out. Every time the government gets into our lives they always manage to makes things worse than better! The government just needs to back off and let us the people elect them in make our own damn decisions! I'm so sick and tired of lazy people taking advantage of welfare especially that bimbo that had 6 kids and decided to pop out 8 more!

Golfhobo it is being talked about that Obamas plan to fix the banks has a 2 TRILLION dollar Price tag. That is correct 3 times what Bush signed for. Enough money to pay for half an AIRCRAFT CARRIER AND ITS AIR WING. Yet Obama while we are fighting a 2 front war on terror wants to GUT the military spending 10% or more by not fixing equipment that is being used and abused in Iraq and afghanistan Not replacing the F-15 and 16 planes that last year had to be stood down because they were losing wings during high-G manuvers like they would see in combat. The last NEW F-15 came off the line in 1983 26 years ago F-16 in 1988 21 Years ago they are way past their designed life yet Obama is cutting funding on their replacements the F-22 and F-35. WTF are our pilots supposed to fight with when their planes come apart in midair huh their JOHNSONS.

If Obama and the gutless chickencrats really wanted to stimulate the economy by adding more jobs they could increase some of the military spending which would actually do some good. It would require minimal delays since these companies are already up and running. These military contractors could be up and running almost immediately. Instead of doing something that would actually do some good they want to build walking or bike trails and parks which will not do anything to add jobs or keep our country safe. The chickencrats of today hate the military. They come in and gut the military so that they cannot do the job we ask of them. When the republicans come back into office they need to spend much more on the military to build it back up again so that they can protect this country.

During the past 8 years we spent more on the military than in our history and it got us absolutely nowhere at all.

And all you can do is spout hate and fear, give us one verifiable fact just once in your argument.

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending - ProPublica

Read it yourself, this is the spending part, go back to the top and click on the taxes part to see the other half. I will reserve my comments I have to get back to figuring out what to do with a extra $13 a week.

He hasn't failed cause "he did what others couldn't" he did what they shouldn't have done! Do you really believe this will work? Japan spent 3 trillion ( i believe and no I'm noy looking it up) in the 1990s to cure there ressicion and it was a complete failure as this may be. I hope it works but when you start looking at what there spending on it's a rippoff of the taxpayer and WE have no one to blame but ourselves cause WE relect the same greedy stuck up know it all bast*rds again and again.

OK GH flame away!

We may have spent more in those 8 years and the DEMs. sreamed about it many times, Now they just spent aprox. the same amount in three weeks and rumur has it are going to need another trillion or two.
How do you feel about putting that much debt on your children?

OMG!! Just OPEN your eye's and your mind. if you can't or won't see it .....

What is wrong with spending money we don't have? That is the American Way of life... :hellno:

O I forgot the other defense of the conservative, claim liberals are stupid if they don't agree with you. Give me a source, just one source or just continue to assume I am an idiot just for having a difference of opinion with you.

Flame away?? You must have the mild-mannered Golfhobo confused with someone ELSE! :lol2:

Let's have a civilized discussion instead. I'll go first.

I DID look it up for you, and I ask that you read ALL 3 pages of the article I'm going to link. I know you have a preconception (which I don't) about the plan, but please keep an open mind and read BOTH the positive and negative analyses of Japan's efforts.

One thing that struck me, is how American economists see the results differently than those who are taxpayers in Japan.

I also want you to consider that Japan is a very small country, and can only "use" so many roads and bridges.... compared to the U.S. where our infrastructure is crumbling and NEEDS to be "replaced" (not augmented.)

Furthermore, I'd like you to single out (for yourself) all the negatives about their plan/actions and see if you don't remember hearing Obama address each and every ONE of them in recent speeches. It seems to me that he and his "team" have carefully digested this report, or the info it was based on, and "learned" from Japan's mistakes.

Lastly, be sure to notice the actual figures given for the amount of growth each aspect of their plan yielded. I'm sure they would have liked them to be higher, but I don't remember reading any NEGATIVE numbers.

I contend that, according to OUR economists, the plan was NOT an "utter failure," but could have been worked better. Also, consider that the percentage of GDP is higher for their smaller economy that it will be for ours.

I don't KNOW if Obama's plan will work. Economics is not my strong suit. But, I remind you once again that tax reductions for the wealthy has NOT worked in the last 8 years. Neither has deficit Military spending. Our current situation is PROOF.

The definition of insanity is continuing the SAME failed policies and expecting different results. The only conclusion I can draw is that Republicans are insane. :lol2:

Also... please remember that Obama didn't KNOW he would be inheriting such a dire situation in our economy when he first decided to run for President. I'm sure SOME of these spending programs were part of his plan to change America, but I'm SURE he had no intention of having to spend such HUGE amounts of money so rapidly. I can't help but believe that if this were just the 2 year mark of Dubya's last term, HE might have had to take such drastic measures as well. I believe his actions with TARP prove that.

So maybe, we should stop putting a roadblock in front of Obama, and get behind him and push! This cart was going to roll down this hill regardless of who steered it. And we are all going along for the ride.

Here's the link... and I hope EVERYONE will take the time to read it.

In Japan, a lonesome bridge offers U.S. a lesson - International Herald Tribune

Your turn. :thumbsup:

That is the problem with the liberals. They hate facts and the truth! Like someone said they moaned and complained when Bush spent over $1 trillion on 8 years. The dems spent that and then some in a month! The dems/liberals are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and cry when things don't go their way!

Double L cried:

I thought their problem was that they loved to tax and spend! (and that they were Socialists.)

PROVE IT or STFU.

Neither a FACT, nor a TRUTH. So, I LOVE it!

Actually, the figure is LESS than $1 trillion, and Bush would have had to do the same or watch the U.S. go down in flames!

Give me ONE example of our "hypocrisy" if you can think one up or have someone email it to you.

Seems to ME that the only "crying" going on around here (and in the news) is from the Republicans who lost the election BIG TIME!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Double L. But, making ad hominen attacks against the ruling majority in the nation SHOULD be backed up by SOME facts or historical references. [Well, I guess that would mean they weren't ad hominen then!] I suspect you are incapable of either.

I'm really glad that you stayed in school long enough to actually GET a diploma instead of the GED that is so popular with your generation, but as a taxpayer... I don't feel that I got my money's worth!

You rail against Bush's pet project "no child left behind," yet in every post you prove you are a product of it. If the "test" is to choose a party platform and ideals, your teachers have met the minimum requirements to "teach you to it."

I take no pleasure in busting your b@lls, Double L.... but, I have only so much patience for insults from the uninformed.

You were much more "attractive" when you were asking questions instead of spewing lies. And if I didn't CARE so much about you, I wouldn't come down on you like this.

I should KNOW better, but I have no children that survived the divorce! :fire:

Double L, Just try, just once, to argue your point. You are doing no less than school yard name calling. Provide ONE SINGLE FACT! I implore you, just try to use facts once! All you seem able to do is belittle and demean, Rush Limbaugh and Hanity and all the blow hard conservatives do it, that does not make it right.

Surround yourself with the carnies and rubes who buy into your argument, the fact is YOUR party had 8 years and look what they did. The republicans have done their damage and now it is the Democrats turn. Sit back and enjoy the ride, you can't do anything about it for 2 years, and I would wager nothing will change in 2 years anyhow!

But I suppose since I disagree with you I am an idiot? I am not seeing the light? I refuse to open my eyes and see? SHOW ME WHAT I NEED TO SEE!

:pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff::pissedoff::pisse doff::pissedoff:

Rush Limbaugh; Confessed druggie. Why should any person with decent reasoning skills listen to his drivel? Better yet, Why WOULD any person with reasonable intellect listen to his drivel? Are there everyday people out there, that believe this man would in any way, shape or form, give them a moment of attention? Give them a helping hand if they needed it? Or....are his words of wisdom, that spew forth from his drug hazed mind, such, that they benefit from those words??

Shaun Hanity; Exactly what has he done, to make him the economic and political "Guru" that FOX News has turned him into? Is it because he says the words people want to hear?

Anyone whom believe's that a celebrity on the television would care one moment's worth of life for them, deserves what they get from them...NOTHING.

Rush Limbagh and Shaun Hanity, like so many others that we see on TV, have nothing but their mouths to contribute. They have never and will never, contribute(d) a moments worth of value to society. Their money will stay in their pocket. If they can get away without paying taxes...they will...every day. The words they spew forth are just that...words...with no value.

The two of them should have to pay the American Public for their voices polluting the atmosphere. :angryblue::angryblue::fire::fire:

MDKW:

It's actually more like 10 years that "they" had their chance. IIRC, during the last 2 years of Clinton's last term, Newt Gingrich showed up with a brilliant idea for "change." (and brought with him a special prosecutor to impeach the president for personal conduct.) It was called the Contract with America. It was supposed to right all wrongs and clean up politics "as usual."

Although, Clinton had provided fiscal responsibility and left a surplus, many Conservatives were not happy with the "social" programs of the government. They longed for (and rightly so,) the "smaller government" of the Reagan years.

Although Gore won the popular vote in 2000, with the help of a Conservative Congress, conservative Supreme Court, and a newly created conservative MEDIA source, Bush took over the helm of the country.... and immediately made plans to wage war against a sovereign country who had never attacked us. To assuage his guilt for deficit spending on the war, he spent billions on social programs designed to distract us.

This "social spending".... NOT the WAR expenditures, angered his conservative base and contributed to his lowest EVER approval ratings. He lined the pockets of the rich with little or NO return in REAL job creation, and failed to realize that even most REPUBLICANS are "middle class." I beleive the term that became popular was "service industry jobs." Right! The legitimate enslavement and emasculation of the working class! :roll:

Bush mistakenly relied upon the "steroid" induced rage of America about being attacked, and forgot the simple truth that Clinton had discovered. "It's the ECONOMY stupid!" He even dismissed the concerns of his own conservative base in his "religious quest" to fight ALL the evils in the World. And as icing on the cake, he let Wall Street run amok and steal us blind! He learned quickly, but too late, that is IS the economy stupid! And you don't FRUCK with people's retirement incomes! :hellno:

When it comes down to it, Americans care mostly about themselves and their retirements! Wars are fine when required, but experience tells us that we have the POWER to engage and finish them quickly! (Of course, when one dismisses most of one's allies offhandedly, and goes it alone, one finds himself with a knife in a gunfight!) Even the bloodthirsty conservatives grew tired of his incompetent management of the war, as they did with Vietnam. (The so-called "surge" was nothing more than a force enhancement to the level that SHOULD have been deployed to begin with. Thousands died needlessly before they figured out their massive military blunder!)

Luckily, Bush's terms had run out or he would have lost another election SO resoundedly that it would have doomed his party for LIFE! They only "survived" the Obama landslide by running a war hero and a gun-totin' chick to "re-energize" their base. But, too little too late!

And now, within only the first month of the new administration, they have the b@lls to stand up and say that THEY represent "the people," and that we want what THEY have to sell! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yeah.... about 22% of "us" do! :lol2:

You gotta LOVE this "term limited and representative" form of government we have! Every 4-8 years we take another step forward and/or two steps BACK! Reminds me of the agitator in my washer! :hellno::lol2:

I really wish Obama had never uttered those words, "well, WE won so we're gonna try it OUR way!" (paraphrased) But, it IS true! In ONE slip of the tongue, he erased all belief in the promises he made, AND is attempting, to be bipartisan. The "Cons" seized on that like it was their last handhold before they slipped over the cliff! Desperate measures from desperate men!

I sincerely hope he has a "fair" chance to prove his politics. And I hope he has some GOOD ideas. Like all Americans, I want to see results. I am sickened though, by watching the sausage being made!

Hobo

I guess you've seen the light since you've been around last right?

Ladies & Gentleman, your President is infact, giving you change you can believe in...Ohhhh yeeeaah...

I could NOT have said it better! Limbaugh is a nuisance, but Hannity is IMHO an "enemy of the state!"

:bow::bow::bow::bow: "The Orange Bear!"

What's really unfortunate is the fact that this bill won't be much more effective than that of the previous administration, and for the same reasons. "Too little, too late". No, I'm not saying it needs to give us more money to spend, but it does need to discourage "out-sourcing", and encourage domestic production of the goods we use. Simply providing us with more spending money is not going to do that.

Did I say your stupid? Did I insult you in some way? I'm pretty sure that I didn't and I don't remember calling you an idiot either! Just read what I did say and do your own research, the only thing I'm assuming is that your smart enough to do so :) LOL
I'm not here to insult anyone, I believe in our rights and that includes freedom of speech even if I don't agree

GH i will read that link you posted and get back on that but not now ( it's 0330 and been a long day). One thing that gets me about this bill is how fast they had to push it thru and no one had time to read it! Yeah that's "change we can believe in " I believe we just got screwed!
My wife is a nurse and alot of the nurseing aides are all ready talking about what there going to do with there windfall from this bill, some are even saying they want to quit and collect there check! We already take to much reponsiblty away from the people and the result is people wanting/demanding the gov. do this and provide that!
Oh well i'm rambling ... Good night

OH, yeah...

A "RAPID TRANSIT RAIL LINE" between Los Angeles and Las Vegas... That's going to provide jobs around our country, won't it.

Or, the grants to veterans in the Phillipines. No, they do not deserve to be forgotten like the rest of us, but how is that going to stimulate the American economy?

And, what does the average American get out of it??? About $13/day... Or was that $0.13/hour??? Woopy-ding... Yahoo... I feel so stimulated, I think I'll go find a bathroom to sit in. Where are the jobs going to come from?

Windy, NO bill could possibly create ONE job or type of job that will apply and affect everyone in the country. It has to be made up of projects HOPEFULLY spread around the country.

Now, I understand that MANY see this rail line as a "pet project" (some call it pork) for Sen. Reid's homestate, but let's look a little deeper....

To answer your question, such a project will create MANY new jobs supposedly for California and Nevada residents. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, so they NEED some jobs. You're talking about a massive and long term project here!

Furthermore, Las Vegas is a MAJOR weekend destination for residents in the L.A. basin. So, providing a high speed rail line will reduce fossil fuel emmissions (and fuel consumption) AND greatly reduce traffic on the I-15 corridor. This will ultimately save lives, reduce degradation of the highway, and stimulate tourism for Vegas (many don't like to drive that far.)

So.... you are "downing" one single project, for ONE area of the country, that will put hundreds to work, contribute to the "greening" of America, and probably increase tax revenue for the governments who will collect the ticket prices for the rail passengers. It should also reduce gasoline consumption, and declaring our independence from OPEC is part of the plan.

Now, just WHAT part of this idea do you think is so stupid? :roll:

Assuming that projects like this will be equally spread around the country, the effects will be positive for MANY Americans.

I'll play. It costs $8 billion (that we'll be borrowing).

As per usual, I'm staying out of the partisan elements of the debate and conceding whatever parameters you have chosen to set. Crunch the numbers and explain how you justify the price tag. A billion is a thousand million, as you're well aware. Have at it. Positive effects for "MANY" Americans? How many, exactly, for $8 billion borrowed dollars. (I can name one, but that would go against my nonpartisan mandate, wouldn't it? ;))

Vito, as I've said before.... I'm not an economist. But, most of THEM agree that "spending" (even deficit spending) is an effective way to "recover" a failing economy.

I didn't create this mess, and no one is asking ME how to fix it. I'm just along for the ride like everyone else. But, the wheels were put in motion, and the decision was above my paygrade.

I'm only attempting to explain to those who have a "knee jerk reaction" to the plan, what little I know of how or why it will help.

I heard the other day that the total price tag on this bill worked out to 2,000 for every man, woman and child in America. Now, averaging out the Twilight Flyer clan and the Octomom clan with those of us who are single, that would mean (I'm guessing) about 8,000 dollars for every family of four. That's alot of money for sure. But, if it keeps us from entering a depression, where many MORE of us would lose our jobs, and we'd lose say 30% of our economy (as happened in the 30's) It would be worth it... at least to the family that relies on their 50,000 dollar annual income.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to you, or even to me. I'm just saying that MANY Americans would rather lose 8,000 out of ONE year's salary, than to lose their JOB and their HOME.

I realize this is not the end of the money that will be required. Hell, Japan spent 3 trillion and they have what? a fifth of our population?

I have no way of postulating how much tax revenue, long term, will be generated by all the people who get these jobs or use this service. But, I believe that the economists believe that the return justifies the expense.

This particular project, at 8 billion, works out to about $20 per citizen of the U.S. If I had MY way.... the rich businessmen who own the casinos in Vegas would pay your part, my part, and eveyone else's part!

But, the hoarding Conservatives won't let ME decide who pays for the mess that has been created by greedy businesses who have shipped our jobs overseas to save 20 cents per "widget!" :roll:

More like $2400 or so.

Your point is irrelevant, because they are not giving $8000 to a family of four. That would be something called a "tax cut", and is something that Democrats are against. At least for those who are paying the taxes.

A little less than half.

Those "greedy businesses" shipped those jobs overseas because consumers such as yourself didn't want to pay $0.20 more per "widget".